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Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

A brilliant feint by Ukraine. Get the Russians beefing up one part of the front, then attack the area weakened by troop withdrawals. Yet more huge failings by Russian intelligence services.
I don't think Kherson front is a feint. with all the troops and the direction of attack, I think the Ukrainian really are going for broke in Kherson. They just didn't tell the Russian they also trying to have a go on Kharkiv.......

This is more likely an exploit attacks.
 
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I can imagine that but Russia has the ability to do more and absorb far more losses. It will come down to motivation if they are willing to do that. In WW2 they were defending homeland and their independence against the Nazis who considered them subhumans. This time around no matter how much emotion they have, the motivation is not going to be the same as WW2 scenario, the existing Russian homeland is not in threat, if it was then Russia would've the motivation and incentive to fight to the last man.
Boy oh boy have the Russian cheerleaders done a 180 🤣
Cue excuse after excuse
 
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There's no necessary logical correlation between these propositions. Expanse of land controlled and extent of casualties incurred can be very disproportionate to each other.



So the Ukrainian general is lying and the BBC is making numbers up? What for?

I tend to believe credible research findings based upon sound methodology, as well as credible sources. These tick the boxes.


Reports are coming in that the Russian forces have fled melitipol. Ukraine has not attacked there yet! Other Russian troops in the area are surrendering to local partisans.
 
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Next year things are heating up. Russians are waiting for the wunder waffes to come. Ka-52 M and Mi-28 NM sturmoviks are coming next year. These sturmoviks are beasts armed with long range EO and missiles which blast tanks from beyond 10 km. These sturmoviks will turn the tide in Russians favor next year.
🤣 now it’s next year
Please please educate yourself it will go a long way in life
 
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That was a probe. Not a Research.

From a social science point of view, it's typical research work.

Yes, but is there are rules that you have to do it over the internet?

How about going to the person's home and offer it yourselves? Or write a letter? Or you simply don't know your friend's relative was killed?

There are probably media outside the internet where such messages are published, in which case they'd have been taken into account. Moreover this was one out of several sets of data considered. Chances are that for the bulk of Russian forces fallen in the conflict, there's going to be some accessible indication among the multiple sets of empirical sources investigated by those BBC journalists.

But did he ask the entirety of the Russian population??

Because you are claiming Entirety of the Russian death, so they MUST BE talking with everyone in Russia to find out how many of them offered condolence on dead relative?? Otherwise that's a representation, not an entirety.

If condolence messages were the only thing they looked at, but they weren't.

Umm......no.

Yes, as long as they examined all types of public sources acknowledging troop deaths.

First of all, there are no "several hundred thousand" seeing the entire Ukrainian Military themselves only in "Several Hundred Thousand" if that is true, then either half or all the entire Ukrainian military are casualty. Depends on how you interpret the term "Several Hundred Thousand" If so, who's doing the fighting now? Russian should have won and the war is over. You can't fight a war with half your army being casualty.

Eh... several hundreds of thousands can range from 200.000 to 900.000 or more. Also since we're talking about the sum of casualties, most of these weren't lethal. Still, it would realistically imply a minimum loss of 20.000 units of the Ukrainian military and probably more. This doesn't stem from my imagination but from the words of a Ukrainian general no less.

Second of all, as I said, you need to factor in response in operation, you cannot have underman unit attacking a full unit, or you have suffer immerse casualty during an attack and still succeed. Sure, outlining event does exist, but if Ukraine really do suffer that kind of casualty (Those are small by the way) then it would be the Ukrainian in retreat, not Russian.

What undermanned units? Total Ukrainian troop numbers have consistently been far superior to the amount of Russian forces mobilized in the operation.

Also your argument here is based on an strange premise, since it doesn't seem to occur to you that if, say, you are in a situation where you have fewer units to defend a given location, then you'll be more likely to lose that location and also to do so while sustaining fewer casualties compared to losing that same location with more troops defending it. Various scenarii are possible in which retreat does not equal high casualties.

And finally, there is already a thread on Russian and Ukrainian casualty, and you can look up more "Resonable" number by a certain degree than this.

I relayed a statement from a high ranking officer of the Ukrainian military as well as a methodologically acceptable piece of in-depth research by investigative journalists of the BBC. Neither of them are partial in favor of Russia.

Now this to me will weighs more than some random, unsubstantiated estimates based on thin air and published by either biased or uninvolved outside sources.

A good approximation would need a large amount of data set, and a consistency of data, this have neither. I used to process data for a living as my job is to interpret Military Intelligence. First of all. you cannot get a good approximation by trying to local new gravesite as that really don't represent anything, also you will need to have coverage large enough to have enough possible data to be factor in, given the size of Russia, if that BBC team really did that in 6 months, then I will say they are probably god of data, either that or they are the most efficient and hardworking worker I have ever knows.

Or maybe they affected large amounts of researchers to the task. Do you happen to be privy to this in order to draw that conclusion? You didn't produce evidence either that the volume of data they processed is actually small. As for grave sites not representing anything, no comment.

And finally, if I track a specific indication, that mean I am focus on that, again, you are arguing the entirety, ie the Russian loss for the ENTIRE war. How are you going to do that if you are imply tracking any indication, as by nature, all indication is passive.

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Reports are coming in that the Russian forces have fled melitipol. Ukraine has not attacked there yet! Other Russian troops in the area are surrendering to local partisans.

If true it would simply go to illustrate once again the obvious reality that retreat does not necessarily imply (large amounts of) casualties.
 
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If true it would simply go to illustrate once again the obvious reality that retreat does not necessarily imply (large amounts of) casualties.

All the hallmarks of a rout, when they start fleeing out of contact.
 
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Bro why people putting PHONK and rock music over combat footage? Just makes it cringey to watch
 
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Six in 10 British Factories at Risk of Going Under as Bills Soar


A worker walks between the production line at a bottling factory in Kegworth, UK.

A worker walks between the production line at a bottling factory in Kegworth, UK. Photographer: Darren Staples/Bloomberg
By Julian Harris
September 3, 2022, 1:01 AM GMT+2

Soaring energy bills are threatening to put six in 10 British manufacturers out of business, according to a survey that lays bare the extent of the crisis facing the next prime minister.

MakeUK, the lobby group for UK factories, said that nearly half of manufacturers have experienced a jump in electricity bills of more than 100% in the past year.

“The current crisis is leaving businesses facing a stark choice,” the report said. “Cut production or shut up shop altogether if help does not come soon.”

The UK’s new prime minister will be announced on Monday, with Liz Truss expected to beat Rishi Sunak, her rival in the Conservative Party leadership race. The government is under intense pressure to announce a wider package of support to help consumers and businesses cope with an unprecedented surge in global energy costs.

Britain’s factory sector is already in decline, according to a purchasing managers’ index published by S&P Global this week. MakeUK’s survey said that 13% of factories now have reduced hours of operation or are avoiding peak periods, while 7% are halting production for longer stretches.

“Emergency action is needed by the new government,” said Stephen Phipson, MakeUK’s chief executive officer. “We are already lagging behind our global competitors.”

 
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From a social science point of view, it's research work.

It is just not.......As I said, this is at most a probe

Research is when you have empirical evidence to support something, this is nothing but a stab in the dark.......If this is science, then this is quack science.....
There are probably media outside the internet where such messages are published, in which case they'd have been taken into account. Moreover this was one out of several sets of data considered. Chances are that for the bulk of Russian forces fallen in the conflict, there's going to be some accessiblev indication among the multiple sets of empirical sources investigated by those BBC journalists.

Again, there are many other ways or reason why no one was contacted or no condolence message was sent, even if they can crawl thru ALL OSINT, there are still private data that is not going to be available to the "BBC Researcher"

And again, you are not talking about a proportional casualty, as in how many of those are being notified or griefed, there are still many other factor that was not involved and therefore not recorded.

If condolence messages were the only thing they looked at, but they weren't.

Just think of it like this, you need a handle to do any online communication, that is the one that you can look up.
Ask yoruself this, how many Russian soldier have online handle to begin with?

Unless these "BBC researcher" have access to the official roll of Russian Military (which I highly doubt they will) the people they know are deceased are only limited to people who are available on open source.

It doesn't matter if that is message, condolence or whatever, they won't have access to the entire database and I don't think the entire Russian Military roll call are being put on the internet so everyone can look up.

Yes, as long as they examined all types of public sources acknowledging troop deaths.

See above response.

Eh... several hundreds of thousands can range from 200.000 to 900.000 or more. Also since we're talking about the sum of casualties, most of these weren't lethal. Still, it would realistically imply a minimum loss of 20.000 units of the Ukrainian military and probably more. This doesn't stem from my imagination but from the words of a Ukrainian general no less.

You are talking about "several hundred thousand" casualty in a "several hundred thousand" Army. In America, your unit is labelled combat ineffective if you have 20% of casualty, the reason behind this is you will need another 20% of men to look after the 20% casualty, which mean your unit is down 40%. Let's say it's 200,000 on a 900,000 force, you are talking about 22% casualty, and there is no way Ukraine would have 900,000 personnel. More likely between 6-700,000

And again, I watched the original interview, it has been taken out of context.

What undermanned units? Total Ukrainian troop numbers have consistently been far superior to the amount of Russian forces mobilized in the operation.

Dude, just because Ukrainian have 6-700,000 troop in Ukraine vs 300,000 Russian, that does not mean they have superior in number, Ukrainian are defending their entire country, which mean they would have to put troop in fronts that are not active, to anticipate an attack.

It's the same as why Russia have 1.3 million troops but they can only spare 300,000 to attack Ukraine.

Also your entire argument here is flawed, since it doesn't seem to occur to you that if, say, you are in a situation where you have fewer units to defend a given location, then you'll be more likely to lose that location and also to do so while sustaining fewer casualties compared to losing that same location with more troops defending it. Various other scenarii are possible in which retreat does not equal high casualties.

What the hell are you talking about??

If you have less troop defending an area, you either buckle or get slaughter, in either case, you will lose all your troop, either killed, wounded or captured, and you will also suffer casualty more proportional to the attacker. Less defender, less attacker casualty, you don't lose the same amount of attacker to say 100 soldiers defending an area to 10,000 soldiers defending the same area.

And I am NOT talking about the number, I am talking about the proportional lost.

If and when you retreated, that mean you lose more people to the attacker in proportional, the number may be smaller, say if I have a force of 100,000 to attack and you have 500, you lose all 500 but I lose 1000 taking your position, yes, I lose more than you in number, but you lose more than me proportional to the attacks. Because you lose your entire unit, I lost 1%



I relayed a statement from a high ranking officer of the Ukrainian military as well as a comprehensive, transparent and methodologically sound piece of in-depth research by investigative journalists of the BBC. Neither of them are partial in favor of Russia.

Again, your video, according to you, are taking what that general said out of context.

And I don't know what value the BBC "research" has......

Now this to me weighs more than some random, unsubstantiated estimates based on thin air and published by either biased or uninvolved outside sources.

And yours are substantiated?? I don't know counting internet post is a method to gather casualty information....

We can all guess, but again, it would not make sense to have 5700 loss in a 6 months war with nil or neglectable progress. Again, that casualty number need to fit the actual circumstance of the war. Either all the loss Russia suffer is bloodless. Or that is not a valid number.....



Or maybe they affected large amounts of researchers to the task. Do you happen to be privy to this in order to draw that conclusion? Nor have you produced evidence that the volume of data they processed is actually small. As for grave sites not representing anything, no comment.

Dude, and you know??

First of all, Russia has 157 million people. If you want to know in entirety, you will have to interview all 157 million people and see if they have lost any one in the war. That's 157 million calls. Let's say a standard conversation is 3 minutes. It will take 471 million minutes of call to make sure everyone was contacted, and I am already discounting people not picking up the phone, or line is busy, let's just say every call was picked up and spend 3 minutes to gather data. 60 minutes an hour, which mean it will take 7.85 million hours to contact them all, which mean it will take around 327,085 days to contact all of them because each day have 24 hours. 300 thousand days. Which mean if you have a team of 1000, they did nothing but keep calling Russian all day, 24/7, it will take them 300 days to interview all the people.

Now, I don't know how big you think BBC is, I would doubt there are 1000 worker work for BBC Russia and I would very much doubt they will do nothing but call people 24/7 for 300 days, which this war is still in day 202.

Unless, again, those BBC dude have access to the entire list of Russian Service Personnel, then they will not need to call Everyone in Russia.

When you focus on an indication, you narrow that scope of the search.

Say if I focus on the estimation of ground force, then that number will not be representing the entirity of Russian Armed Force because you are ignoring the Navy, Air Force and other branch.

You are doing a broad-spectrum search, which mean you cannot use "Indication" as a starting point. Because "Indication" are passive.
 
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