Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[vi-va]

It was Russia (Soviet Union) and Germany that started WWII by the invasion of Poland.
Now Russia is the only one to blame for this war.

Not true. That's not history, just propaganda. Selective facts.

 

[Stranagor]

To make the damn war last longer. U.S. worried too much support would give Putin the excuse to retreat too early.

The U.S. benefit from the war a lot, economically, politically, militarily, and most importantly, geopolitically. The longer the war last, the better for U.S. The longer the war last, more likely Putin administration explode internally.

So, here we come, another 10 years Afghanistan War in East Europe.

The US could not have found a better alternative to reinvigorate the Atlantic and Pacific alliances. And, obviously, they do not want to squander this opportunity too fast.

 

[vi-va]

The US could not have found a better alternative to reinvigorate the Atlantic and Pacific alliances. And, obviously, they do not want to squander this opportunity too fast.

Europeans, especially East Europeans, rely on U.S. protections more than anytime since the end of the Cold War.

Germany and France provided very limited support to Ukraine comparably, while U.S. is the major sponsor of Ukraine. U.S. won the heart and soul of East Europeans, while NATO is stronger like never before.

Germany and France hesitated in the first couple of month, they have their own concerns. They lost some influence over East Europeans countries. Now they had made up their mind, cut economy ties with Russia, and support Ukraine more and more, otherwise they will lose control over EU.

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608650114377330689

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608657480221065221

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608681867062149121

 

[jhungary]

To make the damn war last longer. U.S. worried too much support would give Putin the excuse to retreat too early.

The U.S. benefit from the war a lot, economically, politically, militarily, and most importantly, geopolitically. The longer the war last, the better for U.S. The longer the war last, more likely Putin administration explode internally.

So, here we come, another 10 years Afghanistan War in East Europe.

Well, considering the political means

The prime objective for US and NATO had already served, that is to draw both Nordic and Eastern Europe closer to US and NATO, I mean, that won't change, they would see Russia as a threat to their national security now pretty much the same they will see if this war drag on for another 4 or 5 years, you don't need that 4 or 5 years more horror to show Russia is an aggressor and the existence would threaten their own national security, that had already done, and countries are going to pull to US for support. It's not like if the war ends now then Eastern European or Nordic country would just forget what had happened since February and go back to being neutral......

Which mean for the US and NATO, the quicker this war is done, there are more benefits to them, because 1.) they don't need to support Ukraine, start rebuilding and start getting contract for money, you can't do that until the war is over. Think about fulfilling all those arms and reconstruction contract to rebuild Ukraine and rearm Europe? And as long as the war continue, they are going to be in the red. And the only way this is going to be over is for Ukraine to roll back their territories either Pre-Feb 2022 or Pre-2014. I don't see a way they would just call it with achieving either of the goal. 2.) The internal pressure would subside, most likely if and when this war ends, both food and fuel price are going to go down dramatically one way or the other. You also don't need to deal with internal opposition

On the other hand, US wanted Russia down, but not out, because if they keep the pressure and Russia imploded and dethrone Putin or what not, the threat would be gone, and US can't squeeze the EU anymore. You need Putin stay in power and become a sort of "Bogeymen" of sort. Who knows what is going to happen once Putin is gone.

 

[The SC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608608855658999813

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608608886361305088

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608572623608479744

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608535530773389315

https://twitter.com/x/status/1607806075398496264

 

[jhungary]

They became better allies for India than the cucks US/UK for Pakistan.

But I, for one, agree with @Dalit that this conflict works to our benefit. Suppose we can add more fuel to the fire, the less pressure on the Islamic World overall. Sadly, casualties happened, but even Ukraine jumped on the Coalition of the Willing bandwagon and went to Iraq, so no love was lost here. There is a reason why 50 some nations are silent between Pakistan and Morocco; they had the chance to pull up their Huggies diapers.

There is just one problem I see on this for the Islamic World.

Where are they going to turn to after this to balance the power of the region??

There are currently 3 powers that play into each other, the West (US+EU), Russia and China. The thing is, as this war drag on, what do you think Islamic World would see as an alternative to counter the asserted aggression by the West? Russia is thoroughly and utterly defeated in this, I mean, you don't really need to know anything military to know Russia is not doing well in this war. So how would people (not just Muslim) think Russia is a viable candidate to balance the West anymore?? So the remaining option is China, but then one issue tho, China seems to be abandoned Russia probably at their most needed time. I mean, the West, no matter what they did, they supported Ukraine even with the Pressure from Russia, China don't even send their drone to help the Russian or even artillery round or anything, by all account, China is hanging Russia out to dry, and they were supposedly blood brother (or all weather brother) like they proclaim and the longer this war go on, I mean if Russia, being that close (I mean geographically) to China and that powerful counterbalance to the west and still China still wouldn't jump in, why you think the Chinese would jump in and help the Islamic World in their time of needed??

Say on a hypothetical, if India really go to war or have some sort of border intrusion tomorrow, can Pakistan rely on China support when you guys have 11 months to see China stringing up Russia and withholding their support?

On the other hand, the longer this war continue, the more expensive the energy needs, the more the West and more likely China would want to seek alternative fuel and energy source, that would mean the single biggest weapon the Middle Eastern world had would lose its power, that being the controlling of fossil fuel. This war had opened people eyes not just on Russian aggression, but also the vulnerability of their energy security, EU was hit particularly hard, while diverting their energy need can nip the short-term issue for now, but the West are going to push for alternative energy abandoning Fossil Fuel probably quicker than all those woke nonsense combine. If you think of it this way, what kind of power Saudi or Qatar would yield if both the West and Chinese step away from fossil fuel??

 

[Dalit]

Ukrainian forces face "heavy losses" in Bakhmut and Soledar, presidential adviser says

Heavy Russian attacks on the eastern Ukrainian cities of Bakhmut and Soledar "smack of desperation, reminiscent of suicide bombers," according to a Ukrainian presidential adviser.

Oleksiy Arestovych was speaking during his nightly livestream on Feygin Live, a pro-Ukrainian channel.

As fighting continues in the area, Ukrainian forces are experiencing heavy troop losses, Arestovych said, adding "[the enemy] is losing more, of course, but we have heavy losses. It's a very serious fight."

Some context: Bakhmut has become perhaps the most contested and kinetic part of the 1,300 kilometer (800 mile) front line in Ukraine and the scene of some of the fiercest fighting of the war. The greater Donetsk region, where Bakhmut and Soledar are located, has been held by Russian-backed separatists since 2014 and is one of four Ukrainian regions that Moscow claims as Russian territory in violation of international law.

December 30, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news

Ukraine said its forces shot down 16 Iranian-made drones launched by Russia overnight, a day after what appeared to be one of Moscow's largest missile barrages since the war began. Follow here for live updates.

edition.cnn.com

 

[PakFactor]

There is just one problem I see on this for the Islamic World.

Where are they going to turn to after this to balance the power of the region??

There are currently 3 powers that play into each other, the West (US+EU), Russia and China. The thing is, as this war drag on, what do you think Islamic World would see as an alternative to counter the asserted aggression by the West? Russia is thoroughly and utterly defeated in this, I mean, you don't really need to know anything military to know Russia is not doing well in this war. So how would people (not just Muslim) think Russia is a viable candidate to balance the West anymore?? So the remaining option is China, but then one issue tho, China seems to be abandoned Russia probably at their most needed time. I mean, the West, no matter what they did, they supported Ukraine even with the Pressure from Russia, China don't even send their drone to help the Russian or even artillery round or anything, by all account, China is hanging Russia out to dry, and they were supposedly blood brother (or all weather brother) like they proclaim and the longer this war go on, I mean if Russia, being that close (I mean geographically) to China and that powerful counterbalance to the west and still China still wouldn't jump in, why you think the Chinese would jump in and help the Islamic World in their time of needed??

Say on a hypothetical, if India really go to war or have some sort of border intrusion tomorrow, can Pakistan rely on China support when you guys have 11 months to see China stringing up Russia and withholding their support?

On the other hand, the longer this war continue, the more expensive the energy needs, the more the West and more likely China would want to seek alternative fuel and energy source, that would mean the single biggest weapon the Middle Eastern world had would lose its power, that being the controlling of fossil fuel. This war had opened people eyes not just on Russian aggression, but also the vulnerability of their energy security, EU was hit particularly hard, while diverting their energy need can nip the short-term issue for now, but the West are going to push for alternative energy abandoning Fossil Fuel probably quicker than all those woke nonsense combine. If you think of it this way, what kind of power Saudi or Qatar would yield if both the West and Chinese step away from fossil fuel??

We turn nowhere, and the Islamic World will pull down their Huggies at that point. Lol.

Realistically, the West has won. No race or religion can challenge it from this point onwards, and anyone who tries will be put down for good.

I agree with your sentiments regarding whether China will come, most likely not after seeing what took place in Ukraine. This conflict was a game changer and a realization of Western (European) superiority. The Asians screwed themselves completely by allying with another race from another region against one of their own in the Eastern Hemisphere. China f*ucked up by adding another dead horse. It will drag along with North Korea and Pakistan. Overall, this was an opportune time for the Chinese to keep the Europeans and US occupied in Europe to divert some attention away, and they failed in this calculus.

A few years back, I mentioned on this forum that Asians are stupid, and this conflict surprisingly proved me correct.

 

[Viet]

There is just one problem I see on this for the Islamic World.

Where are they going to turn to after this to balance the power of the region??

There are currently 3 powers that play into each other, the West (US+EU), Russia and China. The thing is, as this war drag on, what do you think Islamic World would see as an alternative to counter the asserted aggression by the West? Russia is thoroughly and utterly defeated in this, I mean, you don't really need to know anything military to know Russia is not doing well in this war. So how would people (not just Muslim) think Russia is a viable candidate to balance the West anymore?? So the remaining option is China, but then one issue tho, China seems to be abandoned Russia probably at their most needed time. I mean, the West, no matter what they did, they supported Ukraine even with the Pressure from Russia, China don't even send their drone to help the Russian or even artillery round or anything, by all account, China is hanging Russia out to dry, and they were supposedly blood brother (or all weather brother) like they proclaim and the longer this war go on, I mean if Russia, being that close (I mean geographically) to China and that powerful counterbalance to the west and still China still wouldn't jump in, why you think the Chinese would jump in and help the Islamic World in their time of needed??

Say on a hypothetical, if India really go to war or have some sort of border intrusion tomorrow, can Pakistan rely on China support when you guys have 11 months to see China stringing up Russia and withholding their support?

On the other hand, the longer this war continue, the more expensive the energy needs, the more the West and more likely China would want to seek alternative fuel and energy source, that would mean the single biggest weapon the Middle Eastern world had would lose its power, that being the controlling of fossil fuel. This war had opened people eyes not just on Russian aggression, but also the vulnerability of their energy security, EU was hit particularly hard, while diverting their energy need can nip the short-term issue for now, but the West are going to push for alternative energy abandoning Fossil Fuel probably quicker than all those woke nonsense combine. If you think of it this way, what kind of power Saudi or Qatar would yield if both the West and Chinese step away from fossil fuel??

Chinese hate the west as much as Putin does. But I don’t think China will ever deliver any weapons to Russia. That would run against Chinese strategic calculus. The war in Ukraine is far away in their minds, that doesn’t threaten China survival. The only exceptions are the wars in Korea and Vietnam. Chinese would resort to use every possible means including nuclear weapons if red lines are crossed in Vietnam and Korea. Other places are unimportant to them.

Even if, why Chinese support an imperialist and racist Russia? Why should they support separatism? Their own separatists in mainland China or Taiwan would feel more emboldened.
So their unlimited friendship to Russia is limited.

 

[ZeGerman]

There are a lot of stuff US don't need or use they can send to Ukraine to deal with Russia, all those comes with minimal training required.

Bradley (US have around 250 stored somewhere not used and not in strategic reserve)
M109A6 (US have at least 450 stored and not used)
M60 Patton (US have 1000+ serviceable M60 in storage, waiting to be converted to target (Which mean it's going to be destroyed anyway) and already retired.)
M270 (US have around 200 M270 Marine retired when they fielded HIMARS.)
M113 (US have 4000+ M113 of all variants in storage, retired and waiting to be scraped)
M1128 Stryker MGS (US have retired the entire M1128 MGS just this year, there are 140 of those)

If US send all these to Ukriane, that is enough for the Ukrainian to mount an offensive. And that's just retired stuff, not stuff that we still use and can be spared, and that just US. I don't understand why US and EU are holding on to those old stock to begin with. The rationale is that you may need that for a conventional war with a near peer enemy, which is Russia, which is basically what these article being store in reserve is for, for them to fight Russia, then why not send them to Ukraine so they can do what they were stored to do??

I also dont understand.
Well from EU it is probably fear of constituents response on such a “hawk” move (warmonger!). Or perhaps on Russias reaction.

From USA i do not understand.
This is THE chance to clip the wings of their former near peer adversary.
1: Do they lack political will to do so, with republicans hijacked by trumpist faction?
2: do they fear Russia becoming unhinged from a complete loss?
3: is a quick victory not something they actually want? Dragging out the conflicts will bleed Russia more…and EU for that matter..while increasing reliance EU on USA.
4: goes against their ridiculous “be ready to fight 2 near peer wars at the same time” restrictions?

Now (winter) is the perfect time to step up and pour artillery and armor into Ukraine..with the time to train them for its use as well. Pump up ammo production as well.
West is still only using single digit of their defense budget as help. Extremely frustrating as so much of this storage was initially intended for the russians anyway.

 

[SIPRA]

..... Arestovych said, adding "[the enemy] is losing more, of course, ....

It seems that these Ukrainians are getting training in propaganda from India. This is their standard technique.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Not true. That's not history, just propaganda. Selective facts.

It is, in 1939 Germany and USSR attacked Poland from both sides

 

[ZeGerman]

It seems that these Ukrainians are getting training in propaganda from India. This is their standard technique.

Russia has been assaulting prepared defensive lines for months without much progress.

Military logic would indicate higher russian losses. especially considering the (relatively poor) tactics and training involved.