Russia threatens Romania and Poland

[Hamartia Antidote]

On a side note: here's why Russians - including Putin - don't smile!
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-some-countries-dont-smile-2016-5?IR=T

Countries to the left of consider smiling people to be significantly less intelligent than non-smiling individuals; those to the right are the opposite.

Countries to the left of the red line consider smiling faces to be less honest.

A smiling Putin could be perceived as less intelligent and less honest. Just so you know.

Wow! I always wondered why far Eastern Europeans have a perpetual "zombie-stare, beaten, never cheerful"' look.

 

[flamer84]

Wow! I always wondered why far Eastern Europeans have a perpetual "zombie-stare, beaten, never cheerful"' look.

Stop taking your information from B movies such as Eurotrip.

 

[salarsikander]

The consequences were there without that system to.If you refuse to be a direct Russian satellite while being their neighbour,you're a target anyway.Or,maybe you could get away with it by being Finland(no great strategic location) but not by being Poland (the gate to Central Europe) or Romania (the gate for Southern Europe).

In the Cold War we were a buffer for the USSR.

So you see clinging from one power to another isn't going to help you much. USA few thousands miles away, whereas Russia is your immediate neighbor, with whom you will share your future or as long as your borders exists in the form of a country. Certainly you cannot hold up much against them, it better to not to present those policies that will upset your next door powerful neighbor. By the time the assistance arrives, god forbid you guys will be run over already while the Western EU would have consolidated their defenses already.

 

[flamer84]

So you see clinging from one power to another isn't going to help you much. USA few thousands miles away, whereas Russia is your immediate neighbor, with whom you will share your future or as long as your borders exists in the form of a country. Certainly you cannot hold up much against them, it better to not to present those policies that will upset your next door powerful neighbor. By the time the assistance arrives, god forbid you guys will be run over already while the Western EU would have consolidated their defenses already.

So,surrender,bow down and hope for Russian mercy ? Ergh no,I prefer it this way.

 

[salarsikander]

So,surrender,bow down and hope for Russian mercy ? Ergh no,I prefer it this way.

Did I say that? where did I ? I said to accept a neutrality.

 

[Vergennes]

So you see clinging from one power to another isn't going to help you much. USA few thousands miles away, whereas Russia is your immediate neighbor, with whom you will share your future or as long as your borders exists in the form of a country. Certainly you cannot hold up much against them, it better to not to present those policies that will upset your next door powerful neighbor. By the time the assistance arrives, god forbid you guys will be run over already while the Western EU would have consolidated their defenses already.

If at the peak of the tensions the USSR didn't dare to invade Europe,what makes you think Russia would ?
Nobody dared to attack a NATO member yet.

So,surrender,bow down and hope for Russian mercy ? Ergh no,I prefer it this way.

Reminds me of a Dutch politician saying 'Accept diversity or face war'. Heck I prefer war !

 

[flamer84]

Did I say that? where did I ? I said to accept a neutrality.

There's no option of neutrality in this side of the world,it never was.It's A or B ,politics and the environment are that way in here.

Reminds me of a Dutch politician saing 'Accept diversity or face war'. Heck I prefer war !

Exactly.For 45 years we saw first hand what being a satellite to Russia means,we can see it in Moldova or Ukraine today.No thanks.

 

[salarsikander]

If at the peak of the tensions the USSR didn't dare to invade Europe

Well that settles then, so Russia will not invade Poland, then the use of those missles ?

There's no option of neutrality in this side of the world,it never was.It's A or B ,politics and the environment are that way in here.

LOL. good luck with that then. Its like inviting troubles from your next door powerful neighbor while Western EU and US sits at peace. Man these Westerners surely know how to screws the Eastern part of the world

 

[Vergennes]

Well that settles then, so Russia will not invade Poland, then the use of those missles ?


LOL. good luck with that then. Its like inviting troubles from your next door powerful neighbor while Western EU and US sits at peace. Man these Westerners surely know how to screws the Eastern part of the world

The U.S isn't invading Eastern Europe,in fact it's these countries that are asking the US and somewhat other European countries to deploy more gear and troops on their soils,because they feel threatened by the "resurgent Russia",and even more by some declarations like 'we'll nuke you'.
-
Before the events in Ukraine,the US troops were leaving en masse Europe and were shipping heavy armors back to the US. Most of the European countries were reducing their armed forces and spendings. @flamer84

Exactly.For 45 years we saw first hand what being a satellite to Russia means,we can see it in Moldova or Ukraine today.No thanks.

What's the overall eastern european's sentiment toward the actual Russia ?

 

[flamer84]

What's the overall eastern european's sentiment toward the actual Russia ?

It depends.Russia is pretty much hated in the Baltics,Poland,Romania,seen with caution in Slovakia,Czech Rep,Hungary and liked in Bulgaria or more so in Serbia.

flamer84

Before the events in Ukraine,the US troops were leaving en masse Europe and were shipping heavy armors back to the US. Most of the European countries were reducing their armed forces and spendings. @flamer84

I hate to say it but the Crimean affair was a blessing in disguise for our Armed Forces and for our economy.

 

[salarsikander]

The U.S isn't invading Eastern Europe,

But is sure being a source of discomfort for Russian prompting them to take this threatening action

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Stop taking your information from B movies such as Eurotrip.

Haha! I take it from first hand experience of working with Russians and Ukranians. In fact a Ukranian guy I work with is having his teeth fixed with braces so he has a reason to smile more.

Edit: He says Russians don't smile because they don't have much to smile about.

 

[T-72M1]

I'm guessing Aegis boats were enough of a headache for Russia, but putting that system on land just bordering Russia is a big optics move by NATO who want to be seen reasserting themselves, such a move was due after Crimea.

maybe @Sven or @Penguin can shed some more light on it, I'd like to know how much of a difference these Ashore systems make strategically.

 

[Penguin]

That is because You are blind.
Russia is sowing seeds of trouble by its illegal invasion and occupation of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.
An ABM system can only be a treat to a Russian ATTACK...

To be honest, it could also provide protection against a COUNTER-ATTACK.

I'm guessing Aegis boats were enough of a headache for Russia, but putting that system on land just bordering Russia is a big optics move by NATO who want to be seen reasserting themselves, such a move was due after Crimea.

maybe @Sven or @Penguin can shed some more light on it, I'd like to know how much of a difference these Ashore systems make strategically.

With Poland being right next to Kaliningrad Oblast, where the Iskander-M are stationed, that's convenient (but means the site is already vulnerable to missile and air strike from very close by, or could even be physically taken).

Of course, the real head-ache is ballistic missiles from Iran

Or, eventually

In more distant future maybe also to consider

Russia has a variety of means to nuclear strike, including SSBNs, SSGNs, cruise missiles from long range bombers. So, compared to e.g. Iran or North Korea, it retains significant nuclear strike portential even in the face of the land and seabased BMD facilities of NATO. And may well be able to overwhelm current stage BMD in the European area.

U.S. DOD map of Soviet ICBM bases, 1980s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Missile_Troops

I suppose landbased ICBM bases would remain approximately in same locations, plus there are land-mobile systems.

Plus, Russia has its own counter to BMD
https://www.rt.com/news/217695-abm-killer-missile-russia/

 

[T-72M1]

With Poland being right next to Kaliningrad Oblast, where the Iskander-M are stationed, that's convenient (but means the site is already vulnerable to first strike from very close by).

no, but they already got mobile systems on their ships in the region, so how, specifically, does an 'Ashore' variant in Romania make things worse for Russia's strategic forces ?

Of course, the real head-ache is ballistic missiles from Iran

Or, eventually

really, so you need land based BMDs in Romania to deal with a possible DPRK threat, even with that big US presence in RoK, Japan and everywhere else ?

In more distant future maybe also to consider

again, the US/West/NATO already have a huge global military presence and enough counters in virtually every part of the world to deal with China, what is the need for sticking one in Romania (right on Russia's borders)

hey, lets face it, nothing will ever save anyone from one of those, why even waste time and money trying ?


jokes aside, let's not kid ourselves with this NATO move in Romania, it is squarely directed at Russian ballistic missiles, but given their known capability, in my limited knowledge, I'd say it's largely an optics play letting Putin know just how close they can get with their defensive systems, which implies they could also get so close with offensive wmds.

unless this Aegis ashore thing is actually strategically a much bigger headache than their already established capabilities.