RUSSIA starts work on second 5th generation fighter.

[nitesh]

Russians have been talking up their 5th Generation fighter stating first flight in 2009....ie this year or early next year latest.

India has signed an agreement to pay 50% of the development costs.

BUT THE REALITY is that this flight is nothing more than test flight of the concept and the war plane itself is over a decade away.

F22 flew the tech demonstrator in 1993 the F22 entered service in 2006 ie 13 years later.

LCA tejas TD1 flew in 2001 and the first IOC will not be acheived until 2010.

THE PAK FA wen it flys will fly with the AFL 31 saturn engine which currently powers the su30mki

Also the PAK FA will fly with the PESA radar. same as SU30 MKI TOO.

ONLY THE actual air frame itself will a new 5th generation version.

Both the new engine which can supercruise AFL41 & the ibris AESA are stil in development stage. As is the new range of Air to air & strike weapons.

" This flight is nothing more than to convince Russian & indian militaries that SUKHOI has the platform ready.

THE REST WILL TAKE US INTO 2020+

You are smoking big time mate

Any way moscow has already replied to your post just check the facts before posting.

 

[Moscow]

the probable flight tests of the pakfa corresponds to the maks 2009 which actually i have posted earlier in my previous posts so till now the news coming out seems to be positive and on schedule.

recent update is that not 3 but 4 prototypes have being built.
a copy airframe for static tests, which is now being tested in TsAGI.
next 3 flights are in varying degrees of development.

thnx

 

[Myth_buster_1]

You are smoking big time mate

Any way moscow has already replied to your post just check the facts before posting.

Now thats a prime example of being "delusional" mate!

 

[Moscow]

since people are already posting on this thread i will once gain give the pictures here. but i guess the full information is on the link i provided earlier.




this is the AL41FU the supercruise capable pakfa/fgfa engine.

this is the zhuk AE AESA RADAR already under trials on mig-35 and flankers


technical details about the radar
technical details about its performance.


This 3cm (X-band) radar. The Russians designed their radar to produce linear power output at the range of 6-8 watt, to address available power (provided by the aircraft) and performance (range). The radar uses multiple four channel transceivers modules generating an output of 5watt per channel, installed on a liquid cooled base plate to dissipate the generated heat. If a specific transceiver is overheated, it will be switched off by the radar computer until it cools down.





Zhuk-AE can detect aerial targets at ranges up to 130 km (head on) in both look-up or look down modes. Look-up tail-on detection range is 50km (40km look down). The radar can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode, and engage six targets simultaneously in the attack mode.

The radar provides target designation data for various Russian made missiles such as the R-27R1(R1E0, RVV-AE, R-73E, Kh-31A, Kh-35E and R-27T(TE) missiles. The radar can distinguish and count closely flying targets as well as identifying targets with known signatures. Close maneuvering combat mode optimizes the system's performance to provide effective vertical scans, coverage of the HUD field-of view, and slew to follow the helmet sighting angles. Special optimization is also provided in the helicopter detection mode, detecting and attacking slow-flying and hovering targets. In the air/surface mode the radar supports ranging, mapping and tracking of moving targets, The radar supports real-beam, Doppler beam sharpening and focused synthetic aperture modes, offering different map scale expansion, map 'freezing', and tracking of four targets, including ground or sea-surface moving targets. It has a sea-surface search mode. The Zhuk AE can detect a destroyer size target at a range of 200 km.


thanx.


all these and much more are given on the link i provided.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

I don't see why indians are jumping up and down, they aren't getting any technology from the russians. when the russians aren't even transferring ramjet technology to the indians, which russian in their right mind would transfer stealth, supercruise, AESA technology to you?

here's what former HAL chairman CG Krishnadas Nair had to say regarding the Brahmos (painted Yakhont), "We must have access to total technology. This denial is a serious matter. No one should hold the other to ransom,".

I seriously wish you indians the best of luck...

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

I don't see why indians are jumping up and down, they aren't getting any technology from the russians. when the russians aren't even transferring ramjet technology to the indians, which russian in their right mind would transfer stealth, supercruise, AESA technology to you?

here's what former HAL chairman CG Krishnadas Nair had to say, "We must have access to total technology. This denial is a serious matter. No one should hold the other to ransom,".

I seriously wish you indians the best of luck...

 

[ahmeddsid]

I don't see why indians are jumping up and down, they aren't getting any technology from the russians. when the russians aren't even transferring ramjet technology to the indians, which russian in their right mind would transfer stealth, supercruise, AESA technology to you?

here's what former HAL chairman CG Krishnadas Nair had to say regarding the Brahmos (painted Yakhont), "We must have access to total technology. This denial is a serious matter. No one should hold the other to ransom,".

I seriously wish you indians the best of luck...

I guess u didnt read that its been sorted out! google it, u ll get it! Old News!

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Russia reneging on transferring Brahmos technology www.idrw.org / Indian Defense Research Wing​

After Russia back-pedalled on transferring technology for the production here of the T-90main battle tank (MBT), a hiatus seems to have emerged over transferring "total" technology for the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile that Russia is jointly developing with India.

"We have not got full technology for the transfer of the (missile's) engines," C.G. Krishnadas Nair, a former chairman of state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), said at a seminar here that Defence Minister A.K. Antony inaugurated.

"We must have access to total technology. This denial is a serious matter," Nair, who is the founder-chairman of Society of Defence Technologists (SODET), maintained.

"No one should hold the other to ransom," he contended, clearly implying that Russia was holding back the technology for the missile's engine.

SODET brings together technologists of defence public sector undertakings, ordnance factory boards and military inspection establishments.

Nair was delivering the keynote address at the SODET-sponsored two-day national seminar on Defence R&D and Technology Management.

The defence minister refused to be drawn into the issue.

"What can I say? I have only just heard this," Antony told IANS on the sidelines of the seminar.

However, A. Sivathanu Pillai, CEO of BrahMos Aerospace that manufactures the missile, disagreed with Nair's contention.

"This is a joint venture. So, there's no question of transfer of technology. Russia manufactures the engines, we manufacture the guidance system and integrate the two," Pillai said.

"Transfer of technology occurs if the technology is purchased," he added.

India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Russia's NPO Mashinostroyenia have jointly developed the BrahMos, which is named after the Bramaputra and the Moskova, the two major rivers of India and Russia respectively.

Work on the project began in 1998 and the missile was first test fired on Dec 22, 2004. BrahMos is a two-stage missile with a solid propellant booster and a liquid propellant ram jet system that gives it a 300-km range.

The Indian Army is currently preparing to operationalise at least one regiment of the BrahMos missile mounted on a mobile launcher. The triple-barrelled launcher is capable of firing the missile singly or in salvos of two or three.

The Indian Navy has also accepted the BrahMos missile system with an advanced fire control system for its warships. Work is also progressing on an Indian Air Force version that will be delivered from the Sukhoi SU-30MKI platform.

As for the T-90, Indian Army chief Gen. Deepak Kapoor has admitted that Russia's delays in the technology transfer had pushed back its production here.

"Transfer of technology is a complex process due to different perceptions on either side on what exactly this involves. There have been delays but in the long run, the transfer will take place and indigenous production of the tank will commence," he said earlier this.

India had purchased 310 of the tanks in 2001 and was to produce under licence another 1,000 T-90s. However, delays in the technology transfer prompted India to sign a contract with Russia in 2006 for 347 tanks to ensure adequate force levels.

 

[SherdiL!]

2030 good luck

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

I guess u didnt read that its been sorted out! google it, u ll get it! Old News!

Please, don't get your hopes up. It's painful to watch you guys, especially after you were hit hard with the news of Hal Tejas and Arjun.

P.S:I didn't want to start another post, but please listen to me. Do you guys understand simple logic? if russians aren't even transferring ramjet technology, and other vital technologies in the Brahmos missile-which is the Yakhont, a leftover from the Cold War that Russia itself doesn't even use-you can forget about the PAK-FA. At most, they will let you purchase some of the fighters, but they aren't going to transfer anything to you.

 

[Moscow]

I don't see why indians are jumping up and down, they aren't getting any technology from the russians. when the russians aren't even transferring ramjet technology to the indians, which russian in their right mind would transfer stealth, supercruise, AESA technology to you?

here's what former HAL chairman CG Krishnadas Nair had to say regarding the Brahmos (painted Yakhont), "We must have access to total technology. This denial is a serious matter. No one should hold the other to ransom,".

I seriously wish you indians the best of luck...

sir please refer to the 5th gen link to update your info regarding this topic
thanx


the truth is when the indians got involved in the program the airframe and engine designes were already freezed so they laclked to gain vital information in this regard.
but regarding stealth, ammunition ,radar and other tech full acess to the indians are made available as a gruop of indian engineers are ready to join the sukhoi pakfa unit in moscow plant.

thanx

 

[Moscow]

ok friends it seems there is no point in discussing with facts
if it pleases some of the members then its better to say that pakfa does not even exist.
its an illusion.


by the way why not stick to the topic why bring in brahmos saga.

the thread starter claimed there was no engines with supercruise and no aesa radar i already posted the pictures with the detail technical information whats the say on the thread then
the thread seems illogical there is no fact to prove the aim of this thread.

thanx

 

[Moscow]

P.S:I didn't want to start another post, but please listen to me. Do you guys understand simple logic? if russians aren't even transferring ramjet technology, and other vital technologies in the Brahmos missile-which is the Yakhont, a leftover from the Cold War that Russia itself doesn't even use-you can forget about the PAK-FA. At most, they will let you purchase some of the fighters, but they aren't going to transfer anything to you.



sir i am not talking about technology transfer or anything.
the claim made by this thread is not correct regarding the radar , engines or frames thats what i am speaking about.
someone posted 2030 at the earliest fine no probs it might even be 2045 why not,

but please learn to accept facts rather than trying to deviate from the topic.

i am not concerned about how much will be transferred to india or not. work on pakfa is progressing components are being developed and its the truth.isnt this the fact?
if the fact is otherwise prove me with the actual details

thanx

 

[Moscow]

what amount of technology will be transferred to india ?
what will be the price?
whom should it be sold?

all these come later sir and only the respective goverments can answer after the plan is executed and operations begin,
why only assume so much when the prototype is yet to fly.

all these brahmos talk come after it has being tested and planned for operations so we can talk about all these technology sharing and prices after the operations begin.

thanx

 

[iceman2009]

To Moscow.

I did not say that AFL 41 does not exist OR that IBRIS AESA radar does not exist.

Wat i said was that they will not fly with the tech demonstrator...because they are not ready for induction onto the plane. WHEN IT FLYS IN 2009-2010.

With regards to TOT for india i think the FORUM members know if you part with $10 billion dollars of your money in development of this fighter then you will certainly get some TOT and rights to manufactutre upgrade and use wat ever western add ons that IAF forsees it needs......

I am not belittling it. PAK FA FGFA will be better than Typhoon & rafael and match for JSF at its worst.......

Its a great opportunity for india to be involved at such depth.

BUT ITS A DECADE AWAY BEFORE IT FLYS IN IAF COMBAT COLOURS