Russia spat delays BrahMos air version

[kingdurgaking]

But TOT knowledge is beyond just understand how the product is finally created and assembled. TOT does not transfer all the other trial and error that comes with developing the product itself. Also, a country might not be able to absorb the technology and build upon the technology. For example, we can teach a backward tribe still in the stone age how to smelt iron to make iron tools. But it doesn't mean that they can absort the knowledge of metalluragy and take the technolgoy to the next level and create steel. Also, this is just an example of have TOT doesn't guarantee that the knowledge of progress can be transfered. I'm not saying that India is in stone age.

ToT involves 2 parts.. first transfer of know how... while some companies like Boeing/LM dont give 100% Know how .. EFT/Rafale will provide know -how... but i doubt on critical technologies like SCB etc etc... secondly ToT will involve transferring equipments that is infrastructure... that is why it takes some time for local development... First it comes as disassembled kits.. second with some parts manufactured locally... slowly the full lines starts but still the raw material for some parts come from the Main company to protect there IP... while 100% ToT is completely absurd ... even in AESA radar ToT.. they might transfer everything but they will keep the Algorithm within them to protect there intellect... while all the other code like interfaces and communication will be shared... only a scientist can tell how absurd the ToT's will be... a scientist just expects know-how not the actual work.. that is where we are denied several times in LCA development.. one good example is dassault did with CLAW team... while BAe/LM gave know-how

 

[Whiplash]

That is actually what I had stated many times already. But I was under attack by many of your countryman for "trolling" for proposing what you proposed. I also brought out how Arjun and LCA was delayed when Indian go solo with these projects. As usual, I was attacked. Its nice to see someone from India agree that India should focus on JV for important cutting edge projects or get Israeli assistance. Of course, any Israeli assistance can be count as American assistance. Given how Israel exists off American largess

If you say things courteously without any condescension nobody will call you a troll. I've seen members like peaceful openly call all indians 'nationalistic and stupid'. You can't expect them to be very nice after that.
And I disagree on the Israel factor. For example, America refused to allow them to sell us Green Pine radars. We went forward with a JV and developed approximately the same state of the art radar under then name 'swordfish'. So I for one do believe that the Israelis WILL go behind americas back to aid India. We're by far their largest military export customer. We've also launched their only recon satellite for them. With a relationship this warm we shouldn't even be thinking twice about JVs with them. We also have good relations with the french, swedes and russkies. So practically anything that's not banned by a treaty can be made at home with JVs

 

[Whiplash]

ToT involves 2 parts.. first transfer of know how... while some companies like Boeing/LM dont give 100% Know how .. EFT/Rafale will provide know -how... but i doubt on critical technologies like SCB etc etc... secondly ToT will involve transferring equipments that is infrastructure... that is why it takes some time for local development... First it comes as disassembled kits.. second with some parts manufactured locally... slowly the full lines starts but still the raw material for some parts come from the Main company to protect there IP... while 100% ToT is completely absurd ... even in AESA radar ToT.. they might transfer everything but they will keep the Algorithm within them to protect there intellect... while all the other code like interfaces and communication will be shared... only a scientist can tell how absurd the ToT's will be... a scientist just expects know-how not the actual work.. that is where we are denied several times in LCA development.. one good example is dassault did with CLAW team... while BAe/LM gave know-how

100% ToT is not required by any deal. Even the MRCA requires 85%. And if our scientists are not willing to do that much by themselves then god help us.

 

[faithfulguy]

If you say things courteously without any condescension nobody will call you a troll. I've seen members like peaceful openly call all indians 'nationalistic and stupid'. You can't expect them to be very nice after that.
And I disagree on the Israel factor. For example, America refused to allow them to sell us Green Pine radars. We went forward with a JV and developed approximately the same state of the art radar under then name 'swordfish'. So I for one do believe that the Israelis WILL go behind americas back to aid India. We're by far their largest military export customer. We've also launched their only recon satellite for them. With a relationship this warm we shouldn't even be thinking twice about JVs with them. We also have good relations with the french, swedes and russkies. So practically anything that's not banned by a treaty can be made at home with JVs

Is Israel really doing this behind American back or with tacid American consent? If Israel want to do similar jv with China or Russia, would US have agreed? Isn't US also working with India in nuclear technology? Pakistan should be more concern about US helping India out via Israel as US is not obligated to provide a counter balance assistance to Pakistan if its the Israeli's that provides the help. The reason is because US is a friend of both India and Pakistan and we have a policy of seeking balance between the two sides. Israel does not have this constrain.

 

[kingdurgaking]

100% ToT is not required by any deal. Even the MRCA requires 85%. And if our scientists are not willing to do that much by themselves then god help us.

Not able to understand on the %?.. i was talking about know-how ... while the people at DRDO gets know-how they develop the things on there own.. for (e.g.) given a requirement for IAF for AESA.... DRDO will not able to develop first what is AESA and how it works.. because the end user himself hasnt had experienced anything on his own to give information to DRDO.. so how will DRDO will develop? what they will get from open Patent will not be enough ...

 

[Whiplash]

Is Israel really doing this behind American back or with tacid American consent? If Israel want to do similar jv with China or Russia, would US have agreed? Isn't US also working with India in nuclear technology? Pakistan should be more concern about US helping India out via Israel as US is not obligated to provide a counter balance assistance to Pakistan if its the Israeli's that provides the help. The reason is because US is a friend of both India and Pakistan and we have a policy of seeking balance between the two sides. Israel does not have this constrain.

Well that's another way to look at it. And you do have I a point. I could quote the earlu 2000s harop deal with china.
But then the US plays a worse card by creating more israeli vs muslim hostility. Well the USA has never been known to give a damn anyway. India has only to gain in this arrangement.

 

[tvsram1992]

India is not milking cow but dinosoiur.

Nice quote