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Russia says Chinese arms better than Russian arms

Hafizzz

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Chinese and NATO arms better than Russian?
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/economics/16-03-2011/117215-russian_arms-0/

The Russian defense industry manufactures poor quality arms for ground forces. NATO and China produce better quality hardware, the commander of Russian ground troops Alexander Postnikov said.

"The combat vehicle arsenal, artillery systems and small arms produced by the domestic defense industry fall behind NATO and even Chinese arms," the official stated.

Postnikov particularly cracked down on the Russian T-90 tank, which, as he said, "was a 17th modification of the Soviet T-72 tank produced since 1973. According to the official, a tank like that currently costs 118 million rubles ($4 million). "It would be easier for us to purchase three Leopards from Germany for this money," he said.

He did not explain, though, why India prefers to buy one Russian T-90 tank instead of three German Leopards. India plans to use T-90s to replace its outdated T-72 and T-55 tanks. Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Turkmenistan also signed contracts with Russia for the delivery of such machines, but Mr. Postnikov disregarded that too.

There are other interesting aspects to the story. According to media reports, in 2010, one T-90 tank was valued at 70 million rubles ($2.3 million). Therefore, it is not clear how the cost increased more than 1.7 times in less than a year.

Here is another aspect. Cheapest and oldest Leopards cost not less than 70 million rubles as of 2009. As for Leopard 2A6, the cost of this machine is 172.2 million rubles ($5.7 million).

It is worthy of note than 80 countries of the world purchase arms from Russia today. The volume of Russian arms sales grows every year by $600 million. However, according to Mr. Postnikov, all these countries buy outdated and extremely expensive hardware. Moreover, Russia's arms sales in 2010 were evaluated at $10 billion vs. $8.8 billion earned in 2009, Rosoboronexport said.

Do the governments of 80 countries purchase Russian arms to cause damage to their own detriment? Nevertheless, it is not the first time, when officials from the Russian Defense Ministry express negative remarks about the quality of domestic military hardware.

It was particularly said, for instance, that Russia would launch the license production of Italian Iveco Lynx armored vehicles in 2011. No one could prove, though, that Russian analogues of those vehicles are worse.

Vladimir Popovkin, first deputy defense minister, complained of the poor state of affairs in the development of Russian unmanned aircraft. Russia spent five billion rubles for the purpose, but failed to achieve any progress, the official claimed.

Alexander Postnikov, the commander of the Russian ground forces, said in September of 2010 that his troops had completed test flights of 22 Russian drones. The designers achieved impressive progress, Postnikov said and added that some drones could be put into service soon.

These are contradictory statements, but it seems that Russia is not going to refuse from purchasing the drones of Israeli production.

The most controversial statement was released by Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov in December of 2010. He stated that Russia could replace its iconic Kalashnikovs and SVD rifles with foreign analogues.

Vladislav Shurygin, a military expert:

"Those saying that the production of the Russian defense industry is worse and more expensive than Western and even Chinese analogues need to have their heads examined. Such remarks can bury all our defense contracts, so they are voiced by those who should be considered as enemies of their own country.

"As for the condition of the national defense industry, it is a very complicated one indeed. Russia has been living on the Soviet legacy during the recent 20 years. We have not been investing anything in the modernization of our defense industry. As a result, one can hear some people saying that Russia is incapable of building high-quality arms. However, T-90 tanks are not outdated. This vehicle operates perfectly under the conditions of the Russian climate. No one can give guarantees that foreign tanks will do well in low temperatures.

"As for the quality, it has decreased too. For example, the quality of armor that is produced today is lower than the quality of Soviet armor produced during the 1980s. Russia lost many technologies during the period of so-called democratic reforms.

"If we start to purchase hardware from abroad, we will go back to the level of the 19th century. We will not be able to defend our national interest," the expert said.
Nikolai Novichkov, editor-in-chief of Arms-Tass news agency:

"I believe that Postnikov has a point. President Medvedev stated several days ago that there were no qualified engineers left in the country. Instead, we have the multi-million-strong army of managers and lawyers, he said. One should think about that when analyzing the situation in the Russian defense industry. Many employees working at our defense enterprises are in their fifties and sixties. Young people do not go to work in the defense industry, because they pay about 15,000 rubles there ($500) a month. If someone comes to work there, they soon leave to work as managers to get more money," Novichkov said.

I am sure those anti-China trolls are very upset now because they keep insisting that China's military hardwares are inferior copies of Russian hardwares.
 
The USSR's military technology has indeed influenced on China, but we don't just stop at 1980s Soviet technology.

China has studied a good amount of Soviet technology, then keeps making the progression and the innovation by ourselves.
 
The USSR's military technology has indeed influenced on China, but we don't just stop at 1980s Soviet technology.

China has studied a good amount of Soviet technology, then keeps making the progression and the innovation by ourselves.

Well the world has also been influenced by Chinese technology.....it was the Mongols who spread Chinese Gunpowder and rocket(Firecrackers) technology to the West.
 
I noticed a lot of the Indian posters are so dumb and blind by their stupidity and patriotism. It s no wonder My India is backward in certain areas and needs help. But the ability of the NRI's to help is severely held down by the gov't and other civilian idiots who are scared that may loose power, money thru anti corruption measures, etc. India changing for the better is good for the majority but not the wealthy who make up a tin segment. Good for China ....it shows what a country held down by foreigners can become. I have mutual respect for Chinese and other Asians in America...because we all share the same struggles in life in our new homes. The article makes me wonder how corrupt Indians defense forces are because we signed for almost 1000 or 3000 T 90's which are inferior to the Russian versions in some key aspects. On top of that, you have Arjun beating the T 90 and some army officials defend it. It speaks volumes and how much influence the Russians have on India's own military procurement.
 
There are rumor that China got the blueprint of the Ulyanovsk supercarrier from Ukraine in 1990s.

Since the Soviets can never come out with the steam catapult system and the nuclear reactor for the supercarrier, then we will accomplish what they cannot accomplish before.
 
I noticed a lot of the Indian posters are so dumb and blind by their stupidity and patriotism. It s no wonder My India is backward in certain areas and needs help. But the ability of the NRI's to help is severely held down by the gov't and other civilian idiots who are scared that may loose power, money thru anti corruption measures, etc. India changing for the better is good for the majority but not the wealthy who make up a tin segment. Good for China ....it shows what a country held down by foreigners can become. I have mutual respect for Chinese and other Asians in America...because we all share the same struggles in life in our new homes. The article makes me wonder how corrupt Indians defense forces are because we signed for almost 1000 or 3000 T 90's which are inferior to the Russian versions in some key aspects. On top of that, you have Arjun beating the T 90 and some army officials defend it. It speaks volumes and how much influence the Russians have on India's own military procurement.

Actually the EU embargo has pushed China forward in coming up with indigenous Military Hardwares. Also the constant China-Bashing in the West has caused the Chinese people to be more united than before.
 
Actually the EU embargo has pushed China forward in coming up with indigenous Military Hardwares. Also the constant China-Bashing in the West has caused the Chinese people to be more united than before.

Indeed, China also has considerably lower wage, so 600 billion yuan would pretty much do what 600 billion USD can do in China's military expenditures.
 
Indeed, China also has considerably lower wage, so 600 billion yuan would pretty much do what 600 billion USD can do in China's military expenditures.

In the near not-so-far future, it will China slapping Arms embargo on foreign countries wanting to buy Chinese arms just like how the EU slapped the arms embargo on China. LOL
 
I noticed a lot of the Indian posters are so dumb and blind by their stupidity and patriotism. It s no wonder My India is backward in certain areas and needs help. But the ability of the NRI's to help is severely held down by the gov't and other civilian idiots who are scared that may loose power, money thru anti corruption measures, etc. India changing for the better is good for the majority but not the wealthy who make up a tin segment. Good for China ....it shows what a country held down by foreigners can become. I have mutual respect for Chinese and other Asians in America...because we all share the same struggles in life in our new homes. The article makes me wonder how corrupt Indians defense forces are because we signed for almost 1000 or 3000 T 90's which are inferior to the Russian versions in some key aspects. On top of that, you have Arjun beating the T 90 and some army officials defend it. It speaks volumes and how much influence the Russians have on India's own military procurement.

Sorry to burst your bubble, in influence of NRIs is overrated. Govt needs investment, and if NRIs bring it, it is good for both(NRIs get good return on their money).
People who live in India, will decide what they want from govt, not you and me. Stop this condescending attitude towards Indians.
 
In the near not-so-far future, it will China slapping Arms embargo on foreign countries wanting to buy Chinese arms just like how the EU slapped the arms embargo on China. LOL

China's weapons are only provided for developing nations, no matter the West despises or appreciates it, we will never sell to them.
 
China's weapons are only provided for developing nations, no matter the West despises or appreciates it, we will never sell to them.

Yup. What you said makes sense because look at what the spread of Chinese gunpowder to the West did to China in return by Western Powers.
 
Yup. What you said makes sense because look at what the spread of Chinese gunpowder to the West did to China in return by Western Powers.

Well, we should also reflect to ourselves why we got humiliated by the West during the last two hundred years.

Since we stopped making the progression because of the incompetent and ignorant Qing Dynasty.

Therefore, we should never forget that lesson of being ignorant and becoming lazy of your previous achievement.
 
"I believe that Postnikov has a point. President Medvedev stated several days ago that there were no qualified engineers left in the country. Instead, we have the multi-million-strong army of managers and lawyers, he said. One should think about that when analyzing the situation in the Russian defense industry. Many employees working at our defense enterprises are in their fifties and sixties. Young people do not go to work in the defense industry, because they pay about 15,000 rubles there ($500) a month. If someone comes to work there, they soon leave to work as managers to get more money," Novichkov said.

I've been wondering about this very point for a while now. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia saw a massive brain drain and sharp decline in its institutions of higher education. If it's indeed the case most researchers working in the Russian defense industry are in their 50s and 60s, then the future of Russia arms industry is dire.

China of course, experienced the very same thing during and after the Cultural Revolution, but we've mostly recovered now. Watchers of the Chinese military technologies can not help but noticing how young most of today's Chinese defense engineers are (I've read bulk of the team at Chengdu are in their 30s).

Given the increased investment in defense R&D and the rise of Chinese higher education, it's really just a matter of time before Chinese military technologies overtakes Russia's.
 
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