Russia rules out arms sale to Pakistan

[karan.1970]

The J-11 does apparently use Chinese engines.

I dont think operationally it does.. there are future plans, but nothing in the operational inventory i guess..

 

[illusion8]

So you mean to say that Pakistan can purchase SU-30MKK from Indonesia, if both these countries agree to the sale, and that Russia would have no say at all? Can Pakistan sell her F-16's or any other US product with explicit US permission? You must be a simpleton.

What's with these Pakistani's?, they don't understand a simple concept of refusal to sell stuff directly by Russia that they have to justify themselves over and over again that they are getting what they need.

IF you are getting what you need then so be it, on the other end of the spectrum imagine Russia actually responded to Kayani and Co's overtures and started a defense relationship with you. You will not have to go all around trying to get Russian stuff from Ukraine and China but the Russians threw that out the window.

You can go ahead and buy second hand stuff from anywhere we cannot control that, and Pakistan buying SU 30 MKK from Indonesia...seriously are you that naive and that dumb? Go ahead and place an offer for purchase of SU 30 from Indonesia and be ready to be laughed at by everyone.

 

[Mav3rick]

depends on quality ,capability an price ,chinese jets are far behind,in this aspect

That is your personal opinion. However, if we were to look at indications then the fact that China declined Russian offers to co-develop a 5th gen stealth fighter or to even get China to invest in any Russian 5th gen fighter is taken as an indication that Chinese technology in that department may be better then Russian or in other words that Russia has nothing more to offer China in the 5th gen department......as of yet.

And that's just about the capability, while who can argue that price and production of the Chinese is second to none.

 

[Safriz]

are we still trolling?

 

[Mav3rick]

as many as you want.. Unlike what Thunder is for PAF, LCA is not the lynchpin of our air force doctrine. So we can do whatever we want with its schedule and IAF can be as picky as they want with their evaluation of LCA.. OTOH, with no one selling to Pakistan on credit, your airforce has no other recourse but to live with the low cost low end Chinese jet in an as is where is form... Though I still wonder what has kept the inducted count of JF 17 at a figure of approx 30 even after 3 years of serial production

That is usually the losers response, that my product is not ready after decades because of this and that. The fact is the other way around, what LCA is for India the JF-17 is not for Pakistan. JF-17's in PAF are there to counter the MKI's along with F-16's.

So you can be as picky as you want with something that just refuses to be on 'par' let alone anything desirable or you could go the Arjan way and order a few anyway!

On the other hand, we have evaluated every jet that India has and more against our own fighting strength and have thousands of hours of research telling us the most likely outcome of an air to air fight b/w PAF & IAF! And we have the option to purchase from whomever we want......at this point in time we do not, and let me emphasize again, we do not need anything other than JF-17's and F-16's to counter the whole of IAF. Keep in mind that Rafael has not yet been ordered!

As for the JF-17's production, I wonder the same thing. Perhaps some insiders can shed some light on what's going on.

However......the punchline is, "your 'wills' will grow more then the LCA ever will "

China not gonna offer u at free ,pakistan have to pay for it......or by taking soft loan from china....

Yes, but so does India from Russia.

 

[Mav3rick]

are we still trolling?

Always, mate

 

[Safriz]

jaan chooor do abb iss thread kii..

 

[Mav3rick]

What's with these Pakistani's?, they don't understand a simple concept of refusal to sell stuff directly by Russia that they have to justify themselves over and over again that they are getting what they need.

IF you are getting what you need then so be it, on the other end of the spectrum imagine Russia actually responded to Kayani and Co's overtures and started a defense relationship with you. You will not have to go all around trying to get Russian stuff from Ukraine and China but the Russians threw that out the window.

You can go ahead and buy second hand stuff from anywhere we cannot control that, and Pakistan buying SU 30 MKK from Indonesia...seriously are you that naive and that dumb? Go ahead and place an offer for purchase of SU 30 from Indonesia and be ready to be laughed at by everyone.

It's actually the Indians that are hard of understanding........We are buying what ever we need from Russia be it Jet engines, helicopters or S-300 systems while Indians are being 'fed' that Russia is not selling anything 'directly'!!

 

[isro2222]

Russia has warned india by saying once u start a game dont change the game rule.... He was pointing at nuclear plant work being stalled.... i think india should hit back saying once u sell weapons to india at a cost than later u shouldnt increase the cost.... Its very clear that russia angry on india for nuclear plant and MMRCA deal.... The victim is indian navy.... They delibrately delayed our AC to protest nuclear plant work being stalled....

 

[foxbat]

That is usually the losers response, that my product is not ready after decades because of this and that. The fact is the other way around, what LCA is for India the JF-17 is not for Pakistan. JF-17's in PAF are there to counter the MKI's along with F-16's.

Since Karan can not respond, let me take a stab at it...JF 17 being in the Pak airforce still does not change the fact that it is indeed a low cost / low end light fighter that Pakistan desperately needs to get out of the lost decade of sanctions and low affordability due to stumbling economy

So you can be as picky as you want with something that just refuses to be on 'par' let alone anything desirable or you could go the Arjan way and order a few anyway!

Anyone with options always gets picky. The one with none (as is the case of Pakistan) has to glorify whatever it has to reduce dissonance.

On the other hand, we have evaluated every jet that India has and more against our own fighting strength and have thousands of hours of research telling us the most likely outcome of an air to air fight b/w PAF & IAF!

As does India.. That's a standard practice.. Even Cuba & mexico have done that analysis against USA

And we have the option to purchase from whomever we want......

Poppycock.. You couldnt even get the french avionics that you wanted for thundar.. Forget the whole plane

at this point in time we do not, and let me emphasize again, we do not need anything other than JF-17's and F-16's to counter the whole of IAF. Keep in mind that Rafael has not yet been ordered!

Its not the question of need but that of availability.. Pakistan does not have the resources to buy 100 million dollar planes at this moment so it has to do with whatever it can get on soft loans from China..

However......the punchline is, "your 'wills' will grow more then the LCA ever will "

Foretell the future at your own peril dude.

 

[arp2041]

Russia has warned india by saying once u start a game dont change the game rule.... He was pointing at nuclear plant work being stalled.... i think india should hit back saying once u sell weapons to india at a cost than later u shouldnt increase the cost.... Its very clear that russia angry on india for nuclear plant and MMRCA deal.... The victim is indian navy.... They delibrately delayed our AC to protest nuclear plant work being stalled....

Isro mate, can u see anything without wearing ur "conspiracy" spects ?? Viky deal is entirely different issue, they definitely wouldn't have wanted to delay it anymore since Mr. Putin himself took charge of the matter & wanted to deliver the carrier by 2012 end, so his prestige was directly at stake vis-a-vis Viky. Also the boiler must have run through a serious trouble as there were Indian naval personnel also present on board Vikramaditya & they were watching each & every issue in the trials, so AC delay has nothing to do with Nuke plant delay, though Russia is really angry at the plant issue because of the stalled state of affairs, also they are upset with the new liability clause that India has invoked in Kundakulam 3 & 4.

 

[perplexed]

That is your personal opinion. However, if we were to look at indications then the fact that China declined Russian offers to co-develop a 5th gen stealth fighter or to even get China to invest in any Russian 5th gen fighter is taken as an indication that Chinese technology in that department may be better then Russian or in other words that Russia has nothing more to offer China in the 5th gen department......as of yet.

And that's just about the capability, while who can argue that price and production of the Chinese is second to none.

We declined F-16 Block60 Super Viper. Means we have better tech than F16
Russia has nothing to offer ??? Are u kidding me ? Chinese can't make a fcuking engine for jf-17 and u guys think they can make a 5th gen engine straightaway.. No they don't have any magic tattoo on their arse

 

[Ammyy]

We declined F-16 Block60 Super Viper. Means we have better tech than F16
Russia has nothing to offer ??? Are u kidding me ? Chinese can't make a fcuking engine for jf-17 and u guys think they can make a 5th gen engine straightaway.. No they don't have any magic tattoo on their arse

Buddy their is nothing better then American tech in terms of weapons (present) ...

But still we have much much better planes as compare to both China and Pakistan

 

[illusion8]

It's actually the Indians that are hard of understanding........We are buying what ever we need from Russia be it Jet engines, helicopters or S-300 systems while Indians are being 'fed' that Russia is not selling anything 'directly'!!

So that was Kayani's shopping list which he took to Russia

 

[foxbat]

as many as you want.. Unlike what Thunder is for PAF, LCA is not the lynchpin of our air force doctrine. So we can do whatever we want with its schedule and IAF can be as picky as they want with their evaluation of LCA.. OTOH, with no one selling to Pakistan on credit, your airforce has no other recourse but to live with the low cost low end Chinese jet in an as is where is form... Though I still wonder what has kept the inducted count of JF 17 at a figure of approx 30 even after 3 years of serial production

Could it be something to do with the number of RD 93 engines supplied by Russia to China so far. How many have been delivered so far and what's the news on additional supply.. Typically most air forces maintain 1 spare engine for every mounted engine in a fighter jet. So 100 engines would typically result in 50 working planes..