Russia rules out arms sale to Pakistan

[Ticker]

What he meant, is that the Russian Engine on JF-17 is bought off the shelf from Russia.



It hasn't met the requirements for a manned aircraft yet. But for projects like AURA, they might use the Kaveri. Also, the AMCA will be powered by Kaveri, as might the future LCAs.

Yeah yeah ..... we are hearing such things since long.

Now such statements are of no value.

You can say it again.

russians ain't gonna give jack sh!t to pakistanis PERIOD

It is beyond you to understand such complexities and the nuances involved therein.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Yeah yeah ..... we are hearing such things since long.

Now such statements are of no value.

You can say it again.

I really have no idea whether you are referring to my post about the JF-17, or the Kaveri. If it's about the Kaveri, i do wonder what makes it so non-valuable. You asked has the IAF accepted it, I answered you, is there really something wrong?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Wrong comparison.. What Thunder is to you, Su 30 MKI is to us.. Actually not really.. Because we manufacture the flanker completely in India including the fabrication of the engine from scratch.. Pakistan, and even China is years away from doing that with the Thunder..

India does assemble the AL-31 engine from the help of the experienced Russian workers, while China designs and fabricates its own jet engine with its own experienced assembly workers.

You guys tried to make your own jet engine Kaveri, but it ultimately failed because your poor manufacturing base isn't anywhere ready to handle this huge task, it requires a strong background of the materials science and a lot of high skilled assembly workers.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

India does assemble the AL-31 engine from the help of the experienced Russian workers, while China designs and fabricates its own jet engine with its own experienced assembly workers.

You guys tried to make your own jet engine Kaveri, but it ultimately failed because your poor manufacturing base isn't anywhere ready to handle this huge task, it requires a strong background of the materials science and a lot of high skilled assembly workers.

LOL, What world class engines do you manufacture with your strong material science background and highly skilled workers? Putting half baked things for photo shoppe is not our forte. And If Kaveri is a failure than is your WS 1,2.3 4, 15..xx. First make a decent engine, then comment.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

LOL, What world class engines do you manufacture with your strong material science background and highly skilled workers? Putting half baked things for photo shoppe is not our forte. And If Kaveri is a failure than is your WS 1,2.3 4, 15..xx. First make a decent engine, then comment.

Of course WS-10 is a decent engine with a good design as it has passed the several thousands of ground test since 2005.

But before 2010 we did have the issue of the quality control since we did not have enough skilled workers to meet the production demand, now the problem is solved and the WS-10 is mass produced with numerous squadrons of J-11B using it, and later J-10B.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Of course WS-10 is a decent engine with a good design as it has passed the several thousands of ground test since 2005.

But before 2010 we did have the issue of the quality control since we did not have enough skilled workers to meet the production demand, now the problem is solved and the WS-10 is mass produced with numerous squadrons of J-11B using it, and later J-10B.

Big New Chinese Order for Russian Fighter Engines, Oct 2011

One is for more than 150 AL-31Fs as replacements for earlier engines of same type that power the Su-27/Su-30MKK/MK2 fighters, that are designated J-11 in China. Engines under this contract will be assembled by the Ufa-based UMPO factory.
The second contract is for more than 120 AL-31FN engines to power newly built Chengdu J-10 fighters. Engines under this contract are already being delivered, from the Moscow-based Salut plant.

Masalov further said that the grand total of Salut-made AL-31 series engines in China “is nearing one thousand units.” To serve them, Salut has established partnerships with Limin Corp. and Tyan Li company in Chengdu on deliveries and manufacturing of spare parts for both the AL-31F and the AL-31FN. Russia has also agreed to provide all necessary maintenance and repair documentation to the Chinese partners. Salut faces many issues pertaining to ramping up production to fill these big Chinese orders, Masalov said. This year the company must increase its production output by 30 to 40 percent to fulfill the Chinese contracts. “Certainly there is some pressure on us, with bottlenecks being metal and vendor items,” Masalov said.

Big New Chinese Order for Russian Fighter Engines | Aviation International News

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Big New Chinese Order for Russian Fighter Engines, Oct 2011

One is for more than 150 AL-31Fs as replacements for earlier engines of same type that power the Su-27/Su-30MKK/MK2 fighters, that are designated J-11 in China. Engines under this contract will be assembled by the Ufa-based UMPO factory.
The second contract is for more than 120 AL-31FN engines to power newly built Chengdu J-10 fighters. Engines under this contract are already being delivered, from the Moscow-based Salut plant.

Masalov further said that the grand total of Salut-made AL-31 series engines in China “is nearing one thousand units.” To serve them, Salut has established partnerships with Limin Corp. and Tyan Li company in Chengdu on deliveries and manufacturing of spare parts for both the AL-31F and the AL-31FN. Russia has also agreed to provide all necessary maintenance and repair documentation to the Chinese partners. Salut faces many issues pertaining to ramping up production to fill these big Chinese orders, Masalov said. This year the company must increase its production output by 30 to 40 percent to fulfill the Chinese contracts. “Certainly there is some pressure on us, with bottlenecks being metal and vendor items,” Masalov said.

Big New Chinese Order for Russian Fighter Engines | Aviation International News

We have repeated more than thousand times, AL-31 engines are reserved for J-11A, since these old aircrafts are fit with the AL-31 engines, but their predecessor J-11B uses the indigenous WS-10A/B.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

We have repeated more than thousand times, AL-31 engines are reserved for J-11A, since these old aircrafts are fit with the AL-31 engines, but their predecessor J-11B uses the indigenous WS-10A/B.

I'm assuming this is a typo, and you mean successor?

 

[Mercenary]

You are right regarding people with no knowledge and You are one of them.

Russia is in the driving seat not hindustan there is no need to glorify an importing nation like hindustan that cannot even make nuts and bolts. Russians can and will sell weapons to anyone with Cash hell even angola-belerus ethiopia vietnam are operating su-27. You'd be stupid to not bag even $200M for relations with leech nations, every dollar counts you hear me!

The most stupidest unprofessional post by you The only country willing to sell us arms is China and thats not due to the fact that China loves Pakistan but because China uses Pakistan as leverage against its regional rival in India.

Why would super power need Pakistan's help and provide weapons that could be used against its strategic partner hindustan. Are you noticing my post Yes i am pointing out your contradictions.

Do you have the crystal ball to predict next decade, No? then rest in the corner let professional people speak you are unqualified poster AFAIK most of your post are based on hollywood movies.

An absolutely idiotic post of rambling, nonsense and misplaced nationalism which is parading as fact.

Russia is a weapons maker and India is a weapon's consumer. If Russia sells weapons to Pakistan, India has other options like USA, Israel and Europe to acquire further weapons for its defensive needs. And thus Russia will never make the mistake of selling weapons to Pakistan because it will hurt its strategic ties with India.

Angola, Belarus, Ethiopia and Vietnam are not involved with any regional rivalry with any country which is a strong steadfast ally of Russia. Your examples are laughable and a symptom of your lack of understanding of the broader geo-political issues.

As for China, the more India invests in its Defense, the less money it has to invest in its economy, infrastructure and other facets in which it can compete with China. To keep this going, it gives arms to Pakistan.

Look its absolutely clear to everyone that you know absolutely nothing and you are nothing more than fan boy whose feelings got hurt when Russia steadfastly refused to sell weapons to Pakistan and now you are bitter that you have lost this argument when debating other rational people on this forum who had told you the reality of the situation when you refused to believe it as such.

I gave a logical reasoning as to why Russia will never sell Arms to Pakistan.

Please go back and improve your debating skills before replying back.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I'm assuming this is a typo, and you mean successor?

Yep, a typo, i meant the successor.

 

[karan.1970]

Has Kaveri been accepted by the IAF.

If you are talking about SU-30 engines, the right terminology would be assembling the engine, and this can not either be fabrication or manufacturing.

You can call it assembly if the base parts (or kit as they call it) of engine came from Russia and we assembled it in India... Like most of the assembly of Thunder at Kamra.. However, for Su 30 MKI, the manufacture of all the parts of the plance including the engine happens locally in India...Only the Intellectual Property of the engine design does not belong to India

Just like road side cycle repair shop .....

Fully Pakistaniyated... \o/

 

[karan.1970]

More like licensed manufacture.

Yes.. But not assembly, like done by Pakistanis for JF 17

I really wouldn't compare the Thunder to the MKI (just for fairness).

You are right.. There is no real comparison technically but I was comparing India's licensed production of a fighter jet with that of Pakistan's

And yes, the Chinese do manufacture their own jet engines. Both licensed and non-licensed.

But none of China's front line aircrafts are yet operational on a chinese engine..including FC1/JF 17

Oh yes we do.

I agree with you.. Pakistanis do have the capability for repairing a cycle

 

[karan.1970]

India does assemble the AL-31 engine from the help of the experienced Russian workers, while China designs and fabricates its own jet engine with its own experienced assembly workers.

However the AL 31 fabricated (not assembled) in India is operational, but the WS 10 that china makes is not.

You guys tried to make your own jet engine Kaveri, but it ultimately failed because your poor manufacturing base isn't anywhere ready to handle this huge task, it requires a strong background of the materials science and a lot of high skilled assembly workers.

tell me when you stop importing Russian engines for JF 17.. Till then poppycock...

 

[Mav3rick]

Whats funnier is that the Russians themselves don't want RD-93 anymore!
They're thinking of replacing all of them with RD-33MKs.

The Rd-93 is a very obsolete and unreliable engine. Its engine hotsection lasts
just around 2,500-3,000 hours between overhaul while the F404/414 engine for
LCAs Mk-1/2 can easily last 6,000+ hours. The JFT will spend more time in the
hangar waiting for the Russians to come and overhaul them while LCA would be
flying sortie after sortie with its highly reliable engine and superior armament with
the Derby/Python-V missiles and much superior EL/M-2032 radar.

Even if the engine parameters are correct, by the time LCA is inducted, JF-17's would be in the block 3/4 stage with more advanced Chinese TVC engines! Why do you guys keep forgetting that?

 

[karan.1970]

Even if the engine parameters are correct, by the time LCA is inducted, JF-17's would be in the block 3/4 stage with more advanced Chinese TVC engines! Why do you guys keep forgetting that?

And LCA is anyway going to start with the advanced GE 404/414 engines..