Russia rejects India’s claims for INS Vikramaditya delivery Penalty

[Sergi]

The word is mutually dependant.. now there are more JV in the industry (missiles , Transport aircraft etc ) and also we have been a steady supplier of defence orders .

They moulded their force according to our needs... Examples being MIg-29 and Su-35s which they ordered for themselves due to our orders.

What's SU-35 connection ??? Upgraded MKIs ???

 

[shuttler]

Yes, we will remain dependent on Russia for atleast another 2 decades, but we are surely making progress on the indigenous front. Russia turning to China?? The breaches of trust & IP by the Chinese have forced Russians to lessen the defence sales to China, look at the su-35 deal, PLAAF wanted an a/c that is of fifth gen features before it's own indigenous fifth gen a/c took to skies, but Russia was skeptic about the deal & shelved it b'coz of IP concerns.

There is no breach of trust between us and Russia in respect of weaponry sales. it is just because indians are their largest buyer that the Russians dont want to mess too much with by selling to us. If you are gone turning to usa and nato, I can guarantee we will appear on their radar again

Hope, now u agree that $2.3 billion is not such a massive cost as earlier thought.

then pay the Russians until both sides are happy

 

[SpArK]

What's SU-35 connection ??? Upgraded MKIs ???

Russia

First Su-30SM for Russian Air Force Flies | Aviation International News

 

[SpArK]

The super suKs are expected to be better than Su-35s

 

[arp2041]

What's SU-35 connection ??? Upgraded MKIs ???

Yes, upgraded su-30mki's are actually downgraded su-35s

JK, spark was talking about su-30sm, which Russian Air force recently ordered, it's the Russian version of su-30mki's

 

[arp2041]

The super suKs are expected to be better than Su-35s

I seriously doubt that. sukhoi 30s are older a/c than su-35s which were designed for having semi-stealth features, but su-30s were not designed for that features, in upgradation we can give AESA radar, ram coatings, avionics etc. but can't change the structural features of the a/c. (correct me if wrong)

 

[shuttler]

and the total $2.3 billion doesnt include any aircraft on it if I remember correctly

$ 2.3 billion includes AC, 16 initial mig-29ks, training, infrastructure + costs of the sea trials.

noted and the 16 migs are costing a total of $ 464 mil

On 1 June 2010, the Times of India reported a naval officer saying: "With India earlier this year agreeing to the revised refit cost of $2.33 billion for Gorshkov, after three years of bitter wrangling since the earlier agreement inked in January 2004 had earmarked only $974 million for it, Russia has appointed a high-level apex committee to oversee the work on the carrier." The ship is likely to go for harbour trials by early 2011 to ensure it can be handed over to India by December 2012 or so

For curious sake, the above quote from wiki doesnt seem to include any aircraft.

 

[faithfulguy]

Why not build it yourself?

That way, the money goes back into developing your own indigenous industries. And not just money, it will also improve the technical competency of your indigenous industries as well as giving them more experience.

Seems to be all upsides with very few downsides.

When you look at LCA and Arjun, you will see why. What we can see is only from the outside. What the Indian government know must be more than what is reported.

 

[arp2041]

For curious sake, the above quote from wiki doesnt seem to include any aircraft.

Mate, u don't have to see TOI for it, that to from a wiki page - when Indians quote TOI & wiki they are mocked at, & suddenly rules changes for other members

look at this link:

INS Vikramaditya air wing to be tested in June | Russia & India Report

1 para i will like to quote:

Russia and India signed the contract for the modernisation of the Admiral Gorshkov heavy aircraft carrier in 2004. The contracted cost of repair and modernisation is $974 million, and India was supposed to pay another $530 million for 16 MiG-29K naval fighters and Ka-31 and Ka-27 naval anti-submarine helicopters.


The original contract for supplies of these carrier-based fighters was signed as part of the package Admiral Gorshkov deal in 2004, which cost a total of $1.5 billion. In March 2010, an option contract was signed for India to acquire 29 Russian-made MiG-29K/KUB fighters. According to unofficial reports, the contract was worth $1.2 billion.

Thus the original deal of 2004 was of $1.5 billion (that included the original contract of 16 migs), now the deal is of $2.3 billion, again including the costs of the 16 a/c, i.e. the refit cost was raised from $ 970 million to around $1.7 billion.

 

[Vibs]

Ofcourse they would. I'd be surprised to find any supplier who accepts such penalties. But the idea was to send a message and I hope it got through.

I seriously doubt that. sukhoi 30s are older a/c than su-35s which were designed for having semi-stealth features, but su-30s were not designed for that features, in upgradation we can give AESA radar, ram coatings, avionics etc. but can't change the structural features of the a/c. (correct me if wrong)

Su 35 was not designed to be a stealth aircraft but was given certain features bring it closer to 5th generation specifications. It has been designed using the same Su27 airframe that is used for the rest of the flankers including the Su30MKI.

Some of the features for reducing visibility to the enemy such as nozzle design (to reduce IR signature) are already included in he Su30MKI that India currently uses. The next set of upgrades are supposed to include the advanced Radar, advanced cockpit and ability to carry heavier weapons. I'm not sure it's fair to compare but with the Western components included in the Su30MKI there may not be too much to choose between the two aircrafts.

 

[cirr]

Indians talk as if they had many choices not buying Chinese products。

Without Chinese parts and products，you lot won't be able to sit here and churn out tons of utter rubbish。

Just make sure that the one responsbie buys quality Chinese products，not cheapies made by rural folks for pig styles。

All in the name of saving a few bobs。

 

[shuttler]

Russians offer was a bait and indians snapped at it hard. now you are on the hook!

I guess you can just discard it, forget the trouble, mend the relationship with russia and let us take over ownership and repair for say $50 million (Liaoning was bought at an auction @ 20 million). How about that? We dont want to have another refit carrier but this one makes all 3 parties happy. The money you get from us provides funding for your next "indigenous" ac

 

[sasi]

Here comes a lol. We are not floating a casino. When we want a casino for us,don't worry we come to u.
So when r u going to open the hotel?

 

[shuttler]

Here comes a lol. We are not floating a casino. When we want a casino for us,don't worry we come to u.
So when r u going to open the hotel?

you are still living in 1998. if you want to go to a casino, you can go to Macau.

the Luxury Aircraft Carrier Hotel is operating in Tianjin. There is a Minsk theme Park in Shenzhen.

Bring your money, lot of money there!

 

[itaskol]

you are still living in 1998. if you want to go to a casino, you can go to Macau.

the Luxury Aircraft Carrier Hotel is operating in Tianjin. There is a Minsk theme Park in Shenzhen.

Bring your money, lot of money there!

I just googled our ACC hotel. it looks great.
president suite 30000 rmb one night is realy expensive. OMG

China's aircraft carrier hotel | Reuters.com