Russia & Pakistan's Growing Engagement

[Capt.Popeye]

Indian Veto, Russian hedging (in reference to..) == Almost as if the initiative we were speaking of did not even include Pakistan?? Is that reasonable??

I do not think that India has a veto; though India has leverage. I would be naive to believe that a veto could even exist. The hedging is in relationship to the fact that Putin means to reclaim Russia's postion in the International sphere; though maybe not to the extent the SU enjoyed. In that context; India can be of some utility. Please also posit that with the Russo-Chinese relationship where both are jockeying for a similar space.

In comparison; in the world of real-politik- Pakistan is a depreciating asset.

 

[muse]

The hedging is in relationship to the fact that Putin means to reclaim Russia's postion in the International sphere; though maybe not to the extent the SU enjoyed. In that context; India can be of some utility. Please also posit that with the Russo-Chinese relationship where both are jockeying for a similar space.

In comparison; in the world of real-politik- Pakistan is a depreciating asset.

But surely the Afghan end game. would afford him such an international venue? Could it be that the pakisni emissaries were actually trying to get a pulse on behalf of another power (unkil)?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

But surely the Afghan end game. would afford him such an international venue? Could it be that the pakisni emissaries were actually trying to get a pulse on behalf of another power (unkil)?

In relation to Afghanistan; I'd believe that Pakistan was trying to garner support for its own status from Moscow in the post-drawdown scenario. But what may have been Putin's (Russia's) response? What do you think?

And Afghanistan is an ideal situation for Putin to able to exert himself.

 

[muse]

In relation to Afghanistan; I'd believe that Pakistan was trying to garner support for its own status from Moscow in the post-drawdown scenario. But what may have been Putin's (Russia's) response? What do you think?

And Afghanistan is an ideal situation for Putin to able to exert himself.

I don't know - and therefore my query

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I don't know - and therefore my query

My guess (a considered opinion):a pleasant state visit took place with all the attendant paraphernalia.
More than that?
Reason for that: Russia is working very hard to stabilise its southern flank, the C.A.R.s; the area where its area of influence has shrunk vey much after the demise of the SU.
What phenomenon does it view as a major threat in that region?

 

[muse]

My guess (a considered opinion):a pleasant state visit took place with all the attendant paraphernalia.
More than that?
Reason for that: Russia is working very hard to stabilise its southern flank, the C.A.R.s; the area where its area of influence has shrunk vey much after the demise of the SU.
What phenomenon does it view as a major threat in that region?

But then would seriously have much to discuss with the Pakistanis -- The way it all fell apart so suddenly, very curious.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

But then would seriously have much to discuss with the Pakistanis -- The way it all fell apart so suddenly, very curious.

Yes indeed; Russia does have much to discuss with Pakistan, just Russia has many questions to ask Pakistan and apart from that Russia has many questions about Pakistan.

Among the questions that Russia will like to ask Pakistan is: Where does Pakistan stand wrt the use of Jehadi Forces/Mujaheddin/Taliban as an instrument of State Strategic/Diplomatic Policy?

Among the questions that Russia has about Pakistan (which Russia will try to resolve by itself): How much Purchase/Leverage does Pakistan have over the multitude of Islamic Forces operating in the region?

The way it (the dialog) fell apart IMO is realated to questions like that.

p.s./edit:
I do not think that Pakistan landed up in Moscow on 'Unkil's' behalf. Pakistan was there on its own behalf. Pakistan's position of primacy in Aghan matters has been whittled down (by a number of factors); Pakistan needed to get some reassurance from Russia to recover that. In turn Pakistan would have extended some assurances to Russia to address Russian concerns.

Did any of that happen?

 

[Screambowl]

there was a news about India finalizing 2.8 billion dollar defense deal with Russia?

 

[A.Rafay]

there was a news about India finalizing 2.8 billion dollar defense deal with Russia?

This is not a india Russia thread go ask else where.

 

[Glitcher]

So will Pakistan ever will be a permanent member of SCO?

 

[bilawalkhan]

Mark my words. The russians will ruin you. No hope for pakistan with russia.

can u give any reason for this,

 

[Glitcher]

can u give any reason for this,

ignor him brother he is just trolling

can u give any reason for this,

ignor him brother he is just trolling

 

[HAIDER]

Russian landing in Pakistan because they know , no much juice left in Indian defence deals. Plus Indian cut major defence deal with France for Rafale.....So, no much interest for Russian and know they are exploring new markets.

 

[muse]

Yes indeed; Russia does have much to discuss with Pakistan, just Russia has many questions to ask Pakistan and apart from that Russia has many questions about Pakistan.

Among the questions that Russia will like to ask Pakistan is: Where does Pakistan stand wrt the use of Jehadi Forces/Mujaheddin/Taliban as an instrument of State Strategic/Diplomatic Policy?

Among the questions that Russia has about Pakistan (which Russia will try to resolve by itself): How much Purchase/Leverage does Pakistan have over the multitude of Islamic Forces operating in the region?

Even though Jihadist forces have now killed in excess of 5000 Pakistani soldiers and 45000 civilians, I cannot say with any confidence that Pakistanis know where the stand with regard to the use of ****** iregulars - I am pretty ure assurances of the State are a diferent matter but I really do think that there is o consensus that the use of ****** irregulars only brings Pakistan greater harm, because ultimately the target of ****** is Pakistan itself.

As for purchasing power - hmm,, little to none I would have thought, but Pakistan have done much on easy credit terms

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Even though Jihadist forces have now killed in excess of 5000 Pakistani soldiers and 45000 civilians, I cannot say with any confidence that Pakistanis know where the stand with regard to the use of ****** iregulars - I am pretty ure assurances of the State are a diferent matter but I really do think that there is o consensus that the use of ****** irregulars only brings Pakistan greater harm, because ultimately the target of ****** is Pakistan itself.

As for purchasing power - hmm,, little to none I would have thought, but Pakistan have done much on easy credit terms

@muse; thank you for your response. Your responses are always born out of thought. And your views carry some validity therefore. It is one thing that Pakistan and Pakistanis (probably) are unsure about the benefits of "jehadi elements" as an instrument of State Policy. But other Nations (which includes Russia and China) are themselves unsure whether Pakistan has abandoned that element completely or forever. That is the reason that other countries (again Russia and China included) are still questioning Pakistan's role in nurturing and utilising this 'Instrument of State Policy' in future.

Just as they are questioning Pakistan's desire and ability to rein in, control or even to eliminate these forces. Also the question is whether Pakistan has been able to reassure all these countries about all of these concerns. I did not mention USA here, because it is neither the beginning or end of the world, inspite of its "pole position" in world affairs.

All of these matters are indelibly and immutably connected to the nature and extent of the role that Pakistan will get in International matters esp wrt Afghanistan matters.

That only amplifies what I said earlier. Now the fact is that all the "smoke and fog" has still not been cleared by Pakistan, either internally or externally.

Another thing, Muse. One thing that you have been saying over and over again here; which incidentally I agree with completely. That is wrt to the Saudi role in Pakistani matters. In a video that formed part of an OP in another thread on this forum; it has been described as a "corrosive influence", as a continuing corrosive influence. I found that rather apt.