Russia & Pakistan's Growing Engagement

[Paan Singh]

I think India needs to respect Russia more. They have the rights to deal with other countries just like India does. The world doesn't revolve around India you know? Right now the concern for the emerging developing countries is America and its western allies movement in the middle east and northern parts of Africa. It will not surprise me to see a better Russo-Pakistan relationship. Besides Pakistan is only a touching distance away from becoming a member of the SCO. Is India willing to stick its neck out that far and piss off the Americans should be the next question. If it is in the interest of India to bring war into Asia and by supporting the U.S role in Pakistan, then it is not doing China, Russia and rest of Asia any favours.

the things u r discussing here are far away from now...atleast 4-5 yrs or may be decade.
the shape of asia will be decided by war on terror in pakistan...and mark my words on wall,usa wont leave af and pak especially when iran is on radar..

 

[Spring Onion]

Pakistani president visits Mosco

By Anna Smolchenko (AFP) – 2 hours ago

MOSCOW — Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari was on Wednesday to arrive for talks with Russian leaders in Moscow, his first foreign visit since the killing of Osama bin Laden by US forces.

On Thursday Russian President Dmitry Medvedev will host Zardari for talks at the Kremlin where officials from the two countries were also expected to sign agreements on cooperation in agriculture, aviation and energy, a spokesman for the Pakistan Embassy in Moscow told AFP.

"Economics will be the focus of the visit," said the spokesman, Raja Abdul Qayyum.

The three-day visit to Russia will be Zardari's first abroad since the Al-Qaeda leader, the world's most wanted man, was killed in the raid by US forces on a compound in Abbottabad in Pakistan.

The Kremlin hailed the death of bin Laden as a "serious success... in the war against international terrorism" but Pakistan has expressed fury that US forces carried out the raid without informing Islamabad first.

Zardari's programme includes a tour of Skolkovo, a future high-tech centre outside Moscow billed as Russia's answer to Silicon Valley and a trip to the former imperial capital Saint Petersburg.

Speaking in an interview with Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency ahead of the visit, Zardari said he hoped his talks in Russia would breathe a new life into bilateral ties.

"I expect a lot from my upcoming visit to Russia," he was quoted as saying. "I hope that during this visit the relations between our countries will receive a new development impetus."

The Pakistani president also said ramping up economic and political ties was in the interests of both countries.

"Tsarist Russia was dreaming about getting access to southern seas," he was quoted as saying.

"Pakistan invites modern Russia to take advantage of its access to southern seas which will no doubt facilitate economic prosperity of the two countries."

Moscow is not usually seen as an ally of Islamabad, not least because of its historically close ties to Pakistan's traditional foe India.

Tensions also still linger over the Pakistani secret service's backing of mujahedeen insurgents against Soviet forces in Afghanistan during the 1980s.

But Russia and Pakistan called for the development of regional economic projects and the revival of cooperation that dated back to the Soviet era at a rare summit last year.

Medvedev hosted Zardari at his Black Sea residence in Sochi as part of the four-way summit which also included Afghanistan and Tajikistan last August when the four states agreed to pursue joint economic projects to help bring stability to the volatile region.

Citing a source close to the management of state conglomerate Russian Technologies, Vedomosti business daily said on Wednesday that the highlight of the Zardari visit would be a preliminary agreement to give Pakistan a $540 million loan to modernise the Soviet-built Pakistan Steel plant.

A delegation from Prominvest, a Russian Technologies subsidiary, has visited the plant and reached preliminary agreements, the source told the newspaper.

Russian Technologies could not confirm the report.

Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved

 

[MilSpec]

I think India needs to respect Russia more. They have the rights to deal with other countries just like India does. The world doesn't revolve around India you know? Right now the concern for the emerging developing countries is America and its western allies movement in the middle east and northern parts of Africa. It will not surprise me to see a better Russo-Pakistan relationship. Besides Pakistan is only a touching distance away from becoming a member of the SCO. Is India willing to stick its neck out that far and piss off the Americans should be the next question. If it is in the interest of India to bring war into Asia and by supporting the U.S role in Pakistan, then it is not doing China, Russia and rest of Asia any favours.

In its insatiable desire to humiliate india one day on the battlefield, Pakistan chose to sell its integrity to USA in the 60's and now seems to do the same to china. Although better relations with russia is a welcome change, but relations should be not just be built upon f16's and j10 as done in the past. most of pakistani alliances has bred a nefarious outcome towards its india centric policy. Its time that pakistan looks to build its alliances to contribute to its economy rather than bolster its military against an enemy imagined!

Indian foreign policy has never been dependent on any major power throughout the history unlike others, neither are we hostages to aid/alms of our so called allies. We didn't budge our non-alligned posture when the world was polarized in two blocks of coldwar. We have never invaded any country, started any wars or responded high handedly to state sponsored atrocities. We have been a democracy since the inception of our republic. It is very uneducated and irresponsible claim to allege Indian interest to bring war to south asia by acting any one's proxy.

India has been more than helpful in maintaining peace in the region by exercising restraint against rogue forces which carry out atrocities against innocent civilians

 

[Obambam]

the things u r discussing here are far away from now...atleast 4-5 yrs or may be decade.
the shape of asia will be decided by war on terror in pakistan...and mark my words on wall,usa wont leave af and pak especially when iran is on radar..

4-5 years is nothing in history.
WoT is a tool and false pretence for the west to establish its presnce.
The true terror has yet to come into Asia.
It is not up to U.S. alone to say what they want and do not want to do, especially when Pakistan is part of the SCO defense blog.
Iran is also being considered as we speak. So the ball is on the American half. They have the choice to quietly back away or risk rising tension with Asia, middle east and Africa. It will be too much for them too handle if it all gets out of hand.

 

[IND151]

right now friendship with India is more beneficial than proposed friendship with Pakistan for Russia. unless Pakistan has something to offer which India cant ; relations between Rawalpindi ( not Islamabad as Rawalpindi has all power) and Kremlin will not be as warm as indo Russo relations.

 

[Obambam]

In its insatiable desire to humiliate india one day on the battlefield, Pakistan chose to sell its integrity to USA in the 60's and now seems to do the same to china. Although better relations with russia is a welcome change, but relations should be not just be built upon f16's and j10 as done in the past. most of pakistani alliances has bred a nefarious outcome towards its india centric policy. Its time that pakistan looks to build its alliances to contribute to its economy rather than bolster its military against an enemy imagined!

Indian foreign policy has never been dependent on any major power throughout the history unlike others, neither are we hostages to aid/alms of our so called allies. We didn't budge our non-alligned posture when the world was polarized in two blocks of coldwar. We have never invaded any country, started any wars or responded high handedly to state sponsored atrocities. We have been a democracy since the inception of our republic. It is very uneducated and irresponsible claim to allege Indian interest to bring war to south asia by acting any one's proxy.

India has been more than helpful in maintaining peace in the region by exercising restraint against rogue forces which carry out atrocities against innocent civilians

I think many people are seeing things way too narrowly. Yes there are undeniable levels of ego involved. That isn't to say that the path cannot be changed. I see Asia being better with Pakistan, India, China and Russia becoming closer. Perhaps when Pakistan becomes closer to Russia will pave way for better Indo-Pakistan relationship.

America has no rights to make its presence felt in Asia or any other parts of the world. It is our rights to ensure that Asia remains stable and safe. We are all neighbours afterall. Americans and the EU cares less if we are around or not. They only care of our existence if it benefits them. I admire and respect India's nature and its role in the world. By taking a 'non-alligned' role is good for the short term but it will not work in the long term. SCO will continue to grow, our economies and military (China, India, Russia and Pakistan) will continue to grow. Eventually, there will be a time when you have to form allegeance with someone and that someone should be your neighbours. We should iron out the minor indifferences and work towards our common goals. India is a regional power now and it should think big and work together with its neighbours to challenge western aggression.

 

[MilSpec]

I think many people are seeing things way too narrowly. Yes there are undeniable levels of ego involved. That isn't to say that the path cannot be changed. I see Asia being better with Pakistan, India, China and Russia becoming closer. Perhaps when Pakistan becomes closer to Russia will pave way for better Indo-Pakistan relationship.

America has no rights to make its presence felt in Asia or any other parts of the world. It is our rights to ensure that Asia remains stable and safe. We are all neighbours afterall. Americans and the EU cares less if we are around or not. They only care of our existence if it benefits them. I admire and respect India's nature and its role in the world. By taking a 'non-alligned' role is good for the short term but it will not work in the long term. SCO will continue to grow, our economies and military (China, India, Russia and Pakistan) will continue to grow. Eventually, there will be a time when you have to form allegeance with someone and that someone should be your neighbours. We should iron out the minor indifferences and work towards our common goals. India is a regional power now and it should think big and work together with its neighbours to challenge western aggression.

Although sir, your response is noble , but a few statements are slightly loaded, First off you talk about peace with military alliances which by nature are to fight. History teaches us that polarization in geopolitics inevitably leads to conflicts. So why form any power blocks in the first place. Since the fall of the world war 2, no super power has had the resources or the morale to ever fight a nation which would challenge them. To make it brutishly simple United states Russia china india Uk will never involve themselves to fight against each other. Smaller asian/latin american/african conflicts will escalate for power projection.
Implications of SCO with NATO like powers: SCO's member nation more or less projects the geo-structure of Old USSR and China combined so there will be a definite cause of suspicion among the western media. Apart from that, SCO's military power projection is useless because the main UN security council also contains russia and china and there own national and geo-political interests are protected through the same eliminating the need for SCO . SCO is a hallow attempt by china to dominate a power projection ability like the US in NATO, but the main contenders China and russia have very different strategic interests and allies.

Rather than military alliances , why not for significant bilateral economic and cultural alliances, joint anti - terror operations, , it will serve peace better

 

[MilSpec]

Why are you Indians getting offended unnecessarily . you are nobody to ask us or for that matter anyone to stick this and that country.

Russia and Pakistan are two sovereign countries and both will act in their own interests.

If Russia sees greater interests in engaging with Pakistan then they will go for it if NOT then they wont. its as simple as that. similar for us

As some one asked about Indo-US relations , I would like to ask the same what does Pakistan has to contribute to Russia ??

As far as the military relations,Russia will be more than happy to sell you jets and tanks if you can offer them a better deal than the evil Bhartis,

I dont want to comment on your sovereignty, but your foriegn policy seems to written in Washington, not sure if they want Russia to play in their sandbox....

O.T Didn't your expert zaid hamid claim that pakistan single handedly broke USSR in to tiny pieces?

 

[prototype]

I think India needs to respect Russia more. They have the rights to deal with other countries just like India does. The world doesn't revolve around India you know? Right now the concern for the emerging developing countries is America and its western allies movement in the middle east and northern parts of Africa. It will not surprise me to see a better Russo-Pakistan relationship. Besides Pakistan is only a touching distance away from becoming a member of the SCO. Is India willing to stick its neck out that far and piss off the Americans should be the next question. If it is in the interest of India to bring war into Asia and by supporting the U.S role in Pakistan, then it is not doing China, Russia and rest of Asia any favours.

First of all,u talk on basis of some wrong notion, unnecessarily flouted in this forum for receiving brownie points"World does not revolve around India".

Possible the reason u made this sentence is because you definitely do not have much knowledge in depth about Indo-Russian relation's.

After our independence it was not India which approached Soviet,it was Soviet itself which which approached the poor nation with both it's arms open.

Even after the demise of Russia the equation had not changed much.

China competing with India for Russia strategic relation is not the same just like Pakistan does.

China too had those which Russia was in dire need,but does Pakistan have it.

Speaking strictly about India Pakistan,everyone know how both nation's had tangled in a zero point game,and the economic disparity is also visible,speaking strictly about cooperation with Russia,India enjoy a position that no other countries enjoy,and Russia will be hardly a fool to avoid India in this case to accommodate Pakistan in the same basket

First of all,we finance their mega projects,so how much can Pakistan put in if they were to collaborate in project like PAK-FA.

Defense is not were we only cooperate on a higher level,this includes global navigation systems,space,natural resources and nuclear business.

It will be to naive to think that Russia will supply Pakistan with civilian nuclear technology or will provide it the service of GLONASS,because simply India wont allow it,and Russia wont avoid it.

Last u r grossly overestimating SCO,I have seen people here who believe that it is some kind of military alliance,if u dont believe the same then my question is what is it.

We dont need to join any SCO if in ur equation it s something that determine the degree of success with Russia or central Asian states,because we already have a solid relation base with them,just have a look India is now supplying Kazakhstan with nuclear reactors.SCO does not mean u r many body and one soul.

And the last point about India bringing the war to Asia,i dont know what are to talking about but i can assure u one thing Russia will not be one which is pointing fingers toward us.

 

[Spring Onion]

As some one asked about Indo-US relations , I would like to ask the same what does Pakistan has to contribute to Russia ??

Yes surely this you can ask and Russia too. it had been answered already you have to go back some posts. But looking at US designs for CARs, Russia is indeed in need of a joint effort to consolidate its position strategically in the region which Pakistan, Russia, Iran and Afghanistan can do.

As far as the military relations,Russia will be more than happy to sell you jets and tanks if you can offer them a better deal than the evil Bhartis,

Who is disputing this point? in my view India should not dictate anyone to sell or not to sell weapons to others. Russia can sell both or more than one client its not an issue.

I dont want to comment on your sovereignty, but your foriegn policy seems to written in Washington, not sure if they want Russia to play in their sandbox....

in international politics no policy is permanent with changing scenario it changes .

O.T Didn't your expert zaid hamid claim that pakistan single handedly broke USSR in to tiny pieces?

USSR was damaged in that first Afghan war and for that you need no expert to tell you that. again in international politics no foe or friend is permanent

 

[Spring Onion]

When Pakistanis cannot forgive India for what India has done in 1971, how do you expect the Russians to forgive what Pakistans have done to them in the 90's?
LOL..wet dreams and mind you, the bear is coming out of the hibernation and getting ready for a trip to Afghanistan

Lets Russia decide that and Indians should not play part of Russian secretary here to decide if Russia should put the past behind or not.

On the other hand India committed terrorism against Pakistan directly where as Afghanistan was a third country where Russians invaded the land

 

[StormShadow]

Lets Russia decide that and Indians should not play part of Russian secretary here to decide if Russia should put the past behind or not.

Ofcourse it's upto the Russians and we are none to decide. But before people fantasize about future,they must remember about their past aswell. Ouch...past!!

On the other hand India committed terrorism against Pakistan directly where as Afghanistan was a third country where Russians invaded the land

And you people helped the US, NATO and helped the mujahideen against the soviets!!! You committed "terrorism" even when there is no Pakaistan on the Russian radar. And yeah...all the best for that

 

[Paan Singh]

Well, there is no stopping India from making or handling deals with the U.S. However, it would be naive to think that they will be satisfy to let India dictate the terms. It's not in the nature of the U.S. Everything from them comes with strings attached.

lets see, then how much they can live in asia if sco goes stronger??
they will have to compromise as equal partners not bullies..
japs cant alone serve their purpose especially in indian ocean

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Why are you Indians getting offended unnecessarily . you are nobody to ask us or for that matter anyone to stick this and that country.

Russia and Pakistan are two sovereign countries and both will act in their own interests.

If Russia sees greater interests in engaging with Pakistan then they will go for it if NOT then they wont. its as simple as that. similar for us

Not getting offended . Just making things clear for those Pakistanis dreaming of an alliance with Russia in the forseeable future.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

I think India needs to respect Russia more. They have the rights to deal with other countries just like India does. The world doesn't revolve around India you know? Right now the concern for the emerging developing countries is America and its western allies movement in the middle east and northern parts of Africa. It will not surprise me to see a better Russo-Pakistan relationship. Besides Pakistan is only a touching distance away from becoming a member of the SCO. Is India willing to stick its neck out that far and piss off the Americans should be the next question. If it is in the interest of India to bring war into Asia and by supporting the U.S role in Pakistan, then it is not doing China, Russia and rest of Asia any favours.

Lol. India does respect Russia a lot , the russians know it so we don't need to prove it to anyone else .I dont know what made you say that .

And yes they have the right to develop relations with all countries , however Pakistan is a different case . They can have an economic relation with Pakistan but a military relation will not be acceptable to India for obvious reasons and they know it .They have an economic and even limited military relation with even China, did us Indians ever say anything ?

About Russia's concerns regarding US let me tell you there is not much distrust between Russia and US today and neither are relations between Russia and China still that great . There will be no blocks even though some Chinese seem to be desiring that.