Russia offers Strike Optimised Sukhoi’s, OEM status for HAL

[shree835]

French defence minister is rushing to New Delhi today after vibes from Ministry of Defense officials at recently concluded Aero India 2015 was not found Positive on MMRCA deal under which India plans to but 126 French-made Rafale Fighter jets. Russians are hell bent on stalling any chance of French clinching MMRCA deal, Russian and Indian officials were seen holding closed-door talks on development of FGFA and MTA aircrafts, which also wandered to MMRCA.

Russia quietly has offered Strike optimised Sukhois to Indian officials, but there is still no official confirmation about such offer. While it is still not clear if the offer is for a new platform ( Su-34 ) or New Avionics package suite which will perform strike roles better in Su-30s.

IAF Chief has made it clear that Additional Sukhoi-30s will not solve problems which IAF faces due to shortage of Strike aircrafts since half the fleet of Mig-27 will be retired in phased manner starting this year. MMRCA stressed on ” Medium ” and “Multi-Role” functions required from aircrafts.

Russia now allowed HAL to act as a single window OEM for supporting Su-30MKI fleet in India and can also offer services to other air forces who have similarly built aircrafts variants in their fleet. Russia will also clear 36 Equipments which have been identified by IAF that has to be manufactured locally in India to keep fleet serviceability of Sukhoi’s at higher side. 36 equipments have high rates of failure and require frequent changes. Russia was original suppliers of this equipment which sometimes due to slow supply chain affected IAF fleet serviceability of Sukhoi’s.

HAL recently rolled out first ever overhauled Sukhoi-30MKI fighter from its Nashik plant, which will cost 40 % cheaper then the price what Russia could have offered . HAL will also now offer similar services to countries like Vietnam, Malaysia and Algeria who fly similar variants .

Last year MRF an Indian Company started supplying main wheel tyres for Sukhoi to IAF. IAF was facing Very High burnout of main tyres and slow supply from Russia was not helping fleet serviceability. It took great deal of time convincing Russians to allow local manufacture of tyres which did not require any TOT, availability of India-made tyres, saw about 35 percent savings in cost compared to the previous supplier.

Russia offers Strike Optimised Sukhoi’s, OEM status for HAL | idrw.org

 

[The Great One]

Why couldn't they simply increase the payload for the MKI. Su 34 has a payload of 12 tons versus a pathetic 7.5 tons for the MKI.

 

[anant_s]

What exactly is offered in this Optimized package?

 

[koushik]

Why couldn't they simply increase the payload for the MKI. Su 34 has a payload of 12 tons versus a pathetic 7.5 tons for the MKI.

The Su-30MKI currently uses the AL-31FP engines rated at 123KN whereas the Su-34 uses the AL-31FMP1 which is rated at 132KN....
which allows the Su-34 to carry loads if stand-off weapons and PGMs.
However the Su-30 MKI has a T/W ratio of 1.14 which is absolutely critical for it to be supermanuverable and make it agile given since it's designed as an Air Superiority fighter
Whereas the Su-34 has a T/W ratio of 0.95 which is standard for all fighter Bombers ( T/W ratio of MiG-23MLD is 0.95 ; Su-24M - 0.87 or a MiG-27 - 0.85)
This is why fighter bombers the carry more payload than Air-Superiority with similar specs but they lack the agility and aero-performance...
The MKI can be made to carry a higher payload by fitting new engines ( 117S) that would allow it to carry heavier payloads considering the MKI can already carry 7.5t....however it might again hamper it's T/W ratio....
So,there are two options available - either modifying an MKI with newer engines and structural modifications or simply putting forward the Su-34..!

Why couldn't they simply increase the payload for the MKI. Su 34 has a payload of 12 tons versus a pathetic 7.5 tons for the MKI.

 

[Screambowl]

Why couldn't they simply increase the payload for the MKI. Su 34 has a payload of 12 tons versus a pathetic 7.5 tons for the MKI.

due to difference in engine power.
SU34 is a like mirage 2000, which plays more of a bomber aircraft role, or can be inducted in strategic force.
SU30 is multirole, bomber + air superiority


even if upgraded, the agility will come down. Greater RCS, low acceleration

 

[The Great One]

The Su-30MKI currently uses the AL-31FP engines rated at 123KN whereas the Su-34 uses the AL-31FMP1 which is rated at 132KN....
which allows the Su-34 to carry loads if stand-off weapons and PGMs.
However the Su-30 MKI has a T/W ratio of 1.14 which is absolutely critical for it to be supermanuverable and make it agile given since it's designed as an Air Superiority fighter
Whereas the Su-34 has a T/W ratio of 0.95 which is standard for all fighter Bombers ( T/W ratio of MiG-23MLD is 0.95 ; Su-24M - 0.87 or a MiG-27 - 0.85)
This is why fighter bombers the carry more payload than Air-Superiority with similar specs but they lack the agility and aero-performance...
The MKI can be made to carry a higher payload by fitting new engines ( 117S) that would allow it to carry heavier payloads considering the MKI can already carry 7.5t....however it might again hamper it's T/W ratio....
So,there are two options available - either modifying an MKI with newer engines and structural modifications or simply putting forward the Su-34..!

Payload has more to do with wings and hard points stress limits than engine power. Su-35S has 146 Kn engines but only marginally better payload of 8 tons.

due to difference in engine power.
SU34 is a like mirage 2000, which plays more of a bomber aircraft role, or can be inducted in strategic force.
SU30 is multirole, bomber + air superiority

 

[koushik]

What exactly is offered in this Optimized package?

This is just my personal opinion but what I feel is the Optimized Strike Package might be an aircraft similar in its role as the Jaguar or MiG-27s ( Deep penetration Strike Aircraft and Multirole fighter Bomber) with advanced avionics, EW - ECW and Stand Off weapons and Precision Bombing capability coupled with long endurance....

 

[Screambowl]

Payload has more to do with wings and hard points stress limits than engine power. Su-35S has 146 Kn engines but only marginally better payload of 8 tons.

if you add more weight the acceleration comes down, you need a more powerful engine to increase its acc. by just 10m/s² which means more infra red rcs and more fuel consumption. And it will be no longer be fit for dog fight.

 

[SpArK]

Its a surprise they mention Su-34.

There was an air exercise last week with SU-34s and MiG-29SMT near St petersberg outskirts.

Its an optimised strike aircraft ..Its a complete package and i dont think we have SU-34s in purchase list .

 

[anant_s]

This is just my personal opinion but what I feel is the Optimized Strike Package might be an aircraft similar in its role as the Jaguar or MiG-27s ( Deep penetration Strike Aircraft and Multirole fighter Bomber) with advanced avionics, EW - ECW and Stand Off weapons andon't Precision Bombing capability coupled with long endurance....

i guess your previous post on optimization of MKI in bomber role is perhaps what is implied in the report, but the technical question remains if it is a good choice?
Besides IAF ACM's reluctance on getting more MKIs at the cost of MMRCA selected candidate might also show that IAF is not on-board with DM, who is one record advocating MKIs in place of Rafale. Importantly IAF needs to be satisfied with their hardware absolutely.
I'm not pitching for Rafale, but i don't think it would be particularly wise to replace Rafale (or EFT if possible under some scenario) with a heavy weight MKI. It is great in role of Air Dominance and let it perform that function.

 

[black-hawk_101]

French defence minister is rushing to New Delhi today after vibes from Ministry of Defense officials at recently concluded Aero India 2015 was not found Positive on MMRCA deal under which India plans to but 126 French-made Rafale Fighter jets. Russians are hell bent on stalling any chance of French clinching MMRCA deal, Russian and Indian officials were seen holding closed-door talks on development of FGFA and MTA aircrafts, which also wandered to MMRCA.

Russia quietly has offered Strike optimised Sukhois to Indian officials, but there is still no official confirmation about such offer. While it is still not clear if the offer is for a new platform ( Su-34 ) or New Avionics package suite which will perform strike roles better in Su-30s.

IAF Chief has made it clear that Additional Sukhoi-30s will not solve problems which IAF faces due to shortage of Strike aircrafts since half the fleet of Mig-27 will be retired in phased manner starting this year. MMRCA stressed on ” Medium ” and “Multi-Role” functions required from aircrafts.

Russia now allowed HAL to act as a single window OEM for supporting Su-30MKI fleet in India and can also offer services to other air forces who have similarly built aircrafts variants in their fleet. Russia will also clear 36 Equipments which have been identified by IAF that has to be manufactured locally in India to keep fleet serviceability of Sukhoi’s at higher side. 36 equipments have high rates of failure and require frequent changes. Russia was original suppliers of this equipment which sometimes due to slow supply chain affected IAF fleet serviceability of Sukhoi’s.

HAL recently rolled out first ever overhauled Sukhoi-30MKI fighter from its Nashik plant, which will cost 40 % cheaper then the price what Russia could have offered . HAL will also now offer similar services to countries like Vietnam, Malaysia and Algeria who fly similar variants .

Last year MRF an Indian Company started supplying main wheel tyres for Sukhoi to IAF. IAF was facing Very High burnout of main tyres and slow supply from Russia was not helping fleet serviceability. It took great deal of time convincing Russians to allow local manufacture of tyres which did not require any TOT, availability of India-made tyres, saw about 35 percent savings in cost compared to the previous supplier.

Russia offers Strike Optimised Sukhoi’s, OEM status for HAL | idrw.org

The only good option is buy fighter like M-2000s from South America, Greece and France with similar upgrade which they are already doing with IAF M-2000s. France would be happy to sell their 150 M-2000s in fast track as it will help them to procure Rafael for themselves.

 

[koushik]

Payload has more to do with wings and hard points stress limits than engine power. Su-35S has 146 Kn engines but only marginally better payload of 8 tons.

I know that very well....
If you compare the dimensions of the Wig and wing area of an MKI, Su-35, Su-34....,.there is little or no difference..
Wingspan of MKI is 14.78m,that of a Su-34 is 14.7m and that of a Su-35 is 15.0m
The wing areas are 62.4m2 and 62.01m2 and 62.01m2 respectively.....
So you see there is negligible difference....!!
Plus both the MKI and Su-34 have a Minimum of 10 hardpoints

 

[SpArK]

Its a quite amazing pic.

 

[koushik]

i guess your previous post on optimization of MKI in bomber role is perhaps what is implied in the report, but the technical question remains if it is a good choice?
Besides IAF ACM's reluctance on getting more MKIs at the cost of MMRCA selected candidate might also show that IAF is not on-board with DM, who is one record advocating MKIs in place of Rafale. Importantly IAF needs to be satisfied with their hardware absolutely.
I'm not pitching for Rafale, but i don't think it would be particularly wise to replace Rafale (or EFT if possible under some scenario) with a heavy weight MKI. It is great in role of Air Dominance and let it perform that function.

Like I said it's my personal opinion and I feel turning an MKI into a fighter Bomber would rob off its capabilities since it's built as an Air- dominance fighter..!!

It's similar to playing a Winger in a Wing Back role.....it will get the job done but it won't be a solution...!!

 

[IrbiS]

Currently how many of your MKIs have A-G capability and can can carry Targeting Pod?