Russia Develops Own THAAD-like, GMD-like Missile Defense Systems

[jammersat]

Israel's iron dome is only to be blamed for this arms race

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Israel's iron dome is only to be blamed for this arms race

Um... ? The missile defense role has been around far longer then the Iron Dome system. Russia's A-35 is from 1972!

ABM-1 Galosh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I fail to see any sort of rational thought in your statement. Israel's Iron Dome is responsible for an arms race that predates it?

Heck, even the 1950s era Nike Hercules was an ABM.

MIM-14 Nike Hercules - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So too is one of its derivatives

LIM-49 Nike Zeus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and Bomarc

CIM-10 Bomarc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and HAWK

MIM-23 Hawk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All predate Israel's Iron Dome

Even this AMB system, while not a missile, is from 1961!!!

Project HARP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The source of this arms race is the existence of long-range, nuclear capable missiles and the need to defeat them.

 

[Hindustani78]

Um... ? The missile defense role has been around far longer then the Iron Done system. Russia's A-35 is from 1972! I fail to the any sort of logic in your statement. Israel's Iron Dome is responsible for an arms race that predates it?

Heck, even the 1950s era Nike Hercules was an ABM.

MIM-14 Nike Hercules - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The source of this arms race is the existence of long-range, nuclear capable missiles and the need to defeat them.

Because of this only INF treaty was signed i think but now even questions are being raised on that treaty. Is Iron Dome have anything to do with INF treaty ?

 

[he-man]

More on A-135

A-135 consists of the Don-2N battle management radar and two types of ABM missiles. It gets its data from the wider Russian early warning system which is sent to the command centre which then forwards tracking data to the Don-2N radar.[1]


The Don-2N radar (Russian: Дон-2Н, NATO: Pill Box) is a large missile defence and early warning passive electronically scanned array radar outside Moscow, and a key part of the Russian A-135 anti-ballistic missile system designed for the defence of the capital against ballistic missiles. Located in the Pushkino district of Moscow it is a quadrangular truncated pyramid 33 metres (108 ft) tall with sides 130 metres (427 ft) long at the bottom, and 90 metres (295 ft) long at the top. Each of its four faces has an 18 metres (59 ft) diameter UHF band radar giving 360 degree coverage.


INDIAN BMD uses AESA radar vs pesa for russian(as russian system was set up 20 years back)

Swordfish Long Range Tracking Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hindustani78]

AP article is saying from 300 KMs . Iron Dome is about 70 KMs if i am not wrong . What is the range of Arrow 2 and 3 ? As United states have funded Arrow programme , does it linked anywhere to INF treaty ?

US weighs steps against Russia for violation
Dec. 10, 2014
the U.S. and Russia cannot possess, produce or test-fly a ground-launched cruise missile with a range of 300 to 3,400 miles.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

AP article is saying from 300 KMs . Iron Dome is about 70 KMs if i am not wrong . What is the range of Arrow 2 and 3 ? As United states have funded Arrow programme , does it linked anywhere to INF treaty ?

US weighs steps against Russia for violation
the U.S. and Russia cannot possess, produce or test-fly a ground-launched cruise missile with a range of 300 to 3,400 miles.

The US Department of State says that the INF Treaty governs offensive missiles with ranges between 500 km and 5500 km and pertains to land-based missiles only, hence why the US and Russia still develop longer-ranged air and sea launched cruise missiles such as the Tomahawk or LRASM (both of which can have a range of 1000 NM)

"The Treaty Between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the Elimination of Their Intermediate-Range and Shorter-Range Missiles, commonly referred to as the INF (Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces) Treaty, requires destruction of the Parties' ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges of between 500 and 5,500 kilometers, their launchers and associated support structures and support equipment within three years after the Treaty enters into force."

Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF Treaty)

Also, considering the treaty bans offensive systems such as cruise and ballistic missiles, a defensive system such Iron Dome or Arrow would not be covered under the treaty as it only eliminates the stockpiles of offensive long-range missiles from the US and Russian inventory, though both nations are still banned from developing new land-based systems with such ranges.

But, the Russians don't seem to care if they violate the treaty, and I suspect the US violates it too. Russia even accuses the US of violating the INF Treaty with its ABM test rocket Hera, which was developed from the Pershing II and Minuteman II ballistic missiles, both of whom were eliminated by the INF treaty.

"Because of its range, Russia claims Hera qualifies as an IRBM and hence violates Item 1, Article 6 of the INF Treaty."

Hera (rocket) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We accused Russia of violating the treaty, this was their response.

Russia On US Treaty Violation Accusation: Go Screw Yourself

*I forgot to address this, and I don't totally trust the source, but Arrow 3 is said to have a range exceeding 1200 Km.

Arrow 3 | Missile ThreatMissile Threat

Arrow 2 is said to have a range of 100 Km.

Arrow 2 | Missile ThreatMissile Threat

 

[Hindustani78]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/w...uise-missile-in-violation-of-treaty.html?_r=0
JULY 28, 2014
NATO’s top commander, Gen. Philip M. Breedlove, has said that the violation requires a response if it cannot be resolved.

“A weapon capability that violates the I.N.F., that is introduced into the greater European land mass, is absolutely a tool that will have to be dealt with,” he said in an interview in April. “It can’t go unanswered.” Mr. Obama has determined that the United States will not retaliate against the Russians by violating the treaty and deploying its own prohibited medium-range system, officials said. So the responses might include deploying sea- and air-launched cruise missiles, which would be allowable under the accord.


The first is Russia’s cutting edge ICBM RS-26 Rubezh (Frontier) complex dubbed 'ABM-killer', reportedly made on the basis of ICBM RS-24 Yars land-based mobile missile system. According to a top military official, it was tested several times at short distances of about 2,000km, RBC Daily reports.


The second candidate is the R-500, a cruise missile which can be used with ground-based 9K720 Iskander launcher. Its range is a delicate issue, said Arbatov as cited by RBC Daily. Though it has an officially announced range below 500km, its exact characteristics remain top-secret and could be argued.


Russia even is having more ballistic missile interceptors than United states according to a recent article.

Russia is having mobile interceptors and even mobile launchers and even United states can launch from Submarines and even from land. So this means both sides will put Missile shields and cover whole Europe.

 

[vostok]

Does anyone know what is the range of these anti Missile radars.

Russia Starts Construction of Two New Anti-Missile Radars: Defense Official / Sputnik International

(updated 10:16 01.12.2014)
In October, Russia announced that an early warning radar station in western Kaliningrad Region would be put on full combat duty in December 2014.

MOSCOW, December 1 (Sputnik) — The construction of two anti-missile radars has begun in the European part of Russia, in the Orenburg Region and the Komi Republic, the commander of the Russian Aerospace Defense Forces said Monday.

"The construction of new-generation radar stations… began in the Orenburg region and in the Komi Republic," Lt. Gen. Aleksander Golovko told journalists.

In October, Russia announced that an early warning radar station in western Kaliningrad Region would be put on full combat duty in December 2014. The move came after the United States announced in May the opening of a Patriot missile base in northern Poland, some 50 miles from the Kaliningrad Region.

Earlier in the same month, the Russian Defense Ministry said it planned to complete the construction of several new anti-missile radars able to cover the entire territory of Russia within five years.

Are Europeans even putting separate missile shields or all are working on a single NATO shield ?

Range of the new radars "Voronezh DM" - 6000 km.
example

 

[SipahSalar]

Israel's iron dome is only to be blamed for this arms race

Iron dome is a very weapon specific system that will be useless for any other country. Its meant to counter unguided rockets, its useless against ballistic missiles.

I think ABM is useless and kind of ruins the point of missile deterrence. Your enemy simply makes better missiles so if the war does happen, it will be a lot worse than it otherwise would have been.

 

[he-man]

I think ABM is useless and kind of ruins the point of missile deterrence. Your enemy simply makes better missiles so if the war does happen, it will be a lot worse than it otherwise would have been.

Incorrect.
Even if it has an accuracy of 40-50 percent its a job well done.

If this was not true,,people would not invest billions in this,,they are.

 

[Oldman1]

Iron dome is a very weapon specific system that will be useless for any other country. Its meant to counter unguided rockets, its useless against ballistic missiles.

I think ABM is useless and kind of ruins the point of missile deterrence. Your enemy simply makes better missiles so if the war does happen, it will be a lot worse than it otherwise would have been.

Not its not useless. That be like saying no different than lets say advanced cruise missiles that became more dangerous to avoid new SAM systems by going around radar coverage or being fooled by advanced smart decoys that flies with cruise missiles or being more stealthy and less dependent on GPS. Or body armor is useless against next gen armor piercing rounds that can pen easily like butter. Countries will make better missiles, well then it can't be any worse than it is with no ABM then right?

 

[SipahSalar]

Incorrect.
Even if it has an accuracy of 40-50 percent its a job well done.

If this was not true,,people would not invest billions in this,,they are.

History is full of nations investing billions in systems that are no good.

Not its not useless. That be like saying no different than lets say advanced cruise missiles that became more dangerous to avoid new SAM systems by going around radar coverage or being fooled by advanced smart decoys that flies with cruise missiles or being more stealthy and less dependent on GPS. Or body armor is useless against next gen armor piercing rounds that can pen easily like butter. Countries will make better missiles, well then it can't be any worse than it is with no ABM then right?

Your statement is correct but do you think its wise to apply the same rules to weapons as destructive as nuclear weapons? The nuclear equilibrium that was established during Cold War was disturbed by Bush administration investing billions in ABM defense. The MAD doctrine must not have been disturbed. When one rival feels that they will lose in Nuclear war, they will try to make better weapons. And that is what we are seeing. START was making good progress but now is heading towards collapse because of US investment in ABM.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Misleading article , Russia already has S300 series and over ... they lead the world the THAD system was attempt to copy Russian technology and mind set

 

[he-man]

History is full of nations investing billions in systems that are no good.

But how do u know they are not??
Till a war happens no one will really know but u have to invest in defence, never the less.

If pakistan had money,they would be doing the same thing.

Misleading article , Russia already has S300 series and over ... they lead the world the THAD system was attempt to copy Russian technology and mind set

Oh bhai pehle thread theek se padh lo.

 

[Oldman1]

History is full of nations investing billions in systems that are no good.



Your statement is correct but do you think its wise to apply the same rules to weapons as destructive as nuclear weapons? The nuclear equilibrium that was established during Cold War was disturbed by Bush administration investing billions in ABM defense. The MAD doctrine must not have been disturbed. When one rival feels that they will lose in Nuclear war, they will try to make better weapons. And that is what we are seeing. START was making good progress but now is heading towards collapse because of US investment in ABM.

Of course, why not? You know Russia has developed their own ABM system even before this article was put out? Yes it was established during the Cold War. Russia will always developed new improved systems. No different than developing next generation of cruise missiles to counter advanced SAM systems. MAD doctrine still applies but some countries may decide to do something really stupid and just launch missiles. So in this case we still lose cities and we nuke back.