Russia Competes With China for Arms Sales to Pakistan

[jupiter2007]

First some one please compare Mig-35/35D with J-10C so we can find out which one is better for our needs.

Diversification is important, we shouldn’t become 100% dependent on China for defence goods and technology. We need to develop defense relationship with Russia and other countries.

 

[mingle]

Diversification is important, we shouldn’t become 100% dependent on China for defence goods and technology. We need to develop defense relationship with Russia and other countries.

Asif Ghafoor said in interview last month that Pak is in negotiations with Russia over Arm purchase so that be it.

 

[Khanivore]

I had discussion with a Chinese poster two weeks ago in this forum. He said Flankers are not for export. While J-10 and J-31 are for export.

He could well be right, but if Pakistan makes a request, I'm sure the Chinese could make an exception. I could be wrong; I could be right.

 

[jupiter2007]

Asif Ghafoor said in interview last month that Pak is in negotiations with Russia over Arm purchase so that be it.

Take your pick...
Mig-35

SU-35

 

[Trailer23]

So since this story broke out its gained a lot of momentum and shockingly there are some articles going about on the internet to backup the story - to a certain extent.

But here is my take on it.

A couple of days prior, PAF acquires jets from Egypt. US is not surprised that Pakistan took that route to avoid the trouble of going through Capital Hill for used F-16's.

Then all of a sudden this story comes out about: Pakistan - Russia (of all people) - US $9 Billion.

Somewhere in the US, Board Members at Lockheed Martin just went, "What the f**#!!!". They're scratching their heads and wondering why they're not getting a piece of the pie.

I sense this is merely a tactic the PAF have played to see if the US will blink in a staring contest. Question is: Who's playing who, here?

Donald Trump on the other hand is thinking...[feel free to watch the whole Video]

Now...

The problem with Migs now is their built quality which is not par with even Sukhois, forgot about western birds.

How can you be certain. You're obviously comparing its earlier variant - the MiG-29 which was designed during the Soviet-era in the late 70's. The MiG-35 had its 1st Test Flight in 2007. You do know that both MiG (Mikoyan) & Sukhoi, both belong to UAC (United Aircraft Corporation), so as far quality is concerned - they are at par with one another.

Pakistan isn’t going for any Russian jet not now or ever.

Exactly...

We need to stop the daydreaming here and come back down to reality.

No funds.
No history of operating Russian jets, also meaning no infrastructure.
Quality issues.
Maintenance costs and serviceability.
Indian lobby.

The last point is actually the first point.

The timing of this report is suspicious... I don't it is true or the motivation behind revealing this info.

Precisely...

Mig-35 is now 4+ gen bird and also fully multirole capability is there now, which was not available in past when Mig-29s were offered, but Mig faces built quality issues.

Though, I agree with you... How exactly did you come to the conclusion that it faces built quality issues? How many Airforce's are currently operating the MiG-35?

Who pouring money in eygpt they r in bad shape than Pak

Since when? Have you seen their GDP as of late...? This is a nation that was the first to place an order for the Rafales with 24. They are not broke! They have suffered some setbacks, politically. But even by being the most populated country in the Middle East, their Economy is steady & certainly one should not compare their situation with the likes of Pakistan (sorry guys).

This plane is a beast.. 4++ .. less the. su57

Hmmm..., yeah okay - one could argue that its a 'beast', and its certainly (far) less than a Su-57. That is another conversation. But it is a very capable jet. And though I know that we'll never see it in the PAF, but i'd be itching to know/see what our boys would be capable of behind the controls of those jets.

SU 400 and SU 35 are very expensive heavy price tag and top line Russian items with strategic political implications so I dont see such possibility in our life time

so in reality JF 17 block 3 or J10C and eventually J-31

I am not sure why posters are declaring Russian Migs as low quality. Mig 21 is a vintage design and old platform of the bygone era around the time of our parents were born or just kids, how many jet crashes do we see in Russia if Russian jets are so bad?
they are made for rough surface and sturdy fuselage that wont disintegrate in case of crash landing and the runway doesn't need to be brushed and vacuumed like the western jets


even Americans admire grudgingly how sturdy and reliable Russian transport helicopters are for example
so heavy duty Russian transport helicopters yes please if they are as good as world proven & reliable Mi 17 platform.

Agreed 100% - And for the guys who have the Su-35 & S-400... Why not the S-500? Khuab pora...

Diversification is important, we shouldn’t become 100% dependent on China for defence goods and technology. We need to develop defense relationship with Russia and other countries.

We are. That's probably the reason why Leonardo has opened an office in Islamabad. Just imagine what we can get out of them... C-27J (Spartan), M345/6...things for the Navy.

Finally..., you may all find this part interesting:

The Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (Caatsa) was introduced in 2017 to target Russia, Iran and North Korea with economic and political sanctions. It also prohibits any country from signing defence deals with these nations.

India got a 'Get out of Jail' card because Trump on the purchase of the S-400. Hasn't worked out well with Turkey.
Reason: Well, you're all smart.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

So since this story broke out its gained a lot of momentum and shockingly there are some articles going about on the internet to backup the story - to a certain extent.

But here is my take on it.

A couple of days prior, PAF acquires jets from Egypt. US is not surprised that Pakistan took that route to avoid the trouble of going through Capital Hill for used F-16's.

Then all of a sudden this story comes out about: Pakistan - Russia (of all people) - US $9 Billion.

Somewhere in the US, Board Members at Lockheed Martin just went, "What the f**#!!!". They're scratching their heads and wondering why they're not getting a piece of the pie.

I sense this is merely a tactic the PAF have played to see if the US will blink in a staring contest. Question is: Who's playing who, here?

Donald Trump on the other hand is thinking...[feel free to watch the whole Video]

Now...

How can you be certain. You're obviously comparing its earlier variant - the MiG-29 which was designed during the Soviet-era in the late 70's. The MiG-35 had its 1st Test Flight in 2007. You do know that both MiG (Mikoyan) & Sukhoi, both belong to UAC (United Aircraft Corporation), so as far quality is concerned - they are at par with one another.

Exactly...

The last point is actually the first point.

Precisely...

Though, I agree with you... How exactly did you come to the conclusion that it faces built quality issues? How many Airforce's are currently operating the MiG-35?

Since when? Have you seen their GDP as of late...? This is a nation that was the first to place an order for the Rafales with 24. They are not broke! They have suffered some setbacks, politically. But even by being the most populated country in the Middle East, their Economy is steady & certainly one should not compare their situation with the likes of Pakistan (sorry guys).

Hmmm..., yeah okay - one could argue that its a 'beast', and its certainly (far) less than a Su-57. That is another conversation. But it is a very capable jet. And though I know that we'll never see it in the PAF, but i'd be itching to know/see what our boys would be capable of behind the controls of those jets.

Agreed 100% - And for the guys who have the Su-35 & S-400... Why not the S-500? Khuab pora...

We are. That's probably the reason why Leonardo has opened an office in Islamabad. Just imagine what we can get out of them... C-27J (Spartan), M345/6...things for the Navy.

Finally..., you may all find this part interesting:

The Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (Caatsa) was introduced in 2017 to target Russia, Iran and North Korea with economic and political sanctions. It also prohibits any country from signing defence deals with these nations.

India got a 'Get out of Jail' card because Trump on the purchase of the S-400. Hasn't worked out well with Turkey.
Reason: Well, you're all smart.

Re: Egypt. Just speculation on my part, but I suspect Cairo actually puts the revenue earned off military-owned businesses towards procurement. Remember, the Rafale deal wasn't signed when things were hunky-dory, but in the midst of tight fiscal pressures, inflation, etc. I think the Egyptian military put its equivalents of FWO, Fauji Industries, etc, to work to get some USD rolling to back their deals.

 

[BRAVO_]

Diversification is important, we shouldn’t become 100% dependent on China for defence goods and technology. We need to develop defense relationship with Russia and other countries.

you are very right ... Pakistan should not put its all eggs in one basket... and this is what they are doing.... but Mig-35 should not be procured

 

[Super Falcon]

Pakistan should buy SU 35 we need a heavy punch in airforce and few helofter halos needed given tje circumtances of floods MI 26 will be handy

We lack quality layerd air defence iff we cam get S 350 votuaz Would be great to boost our air sace guarding capabiloties

Given the nature of best airdefence russia is a world leader in it

 

[war&peace]

I sense this is merely a tactic the PAF have played to see if the US will blink in a staring contest. Question is: Who's playing who, here?

Totally wrong conclusion. This report is not published by any Pakistani newspaper or journalist rather by the epoch times and reported by a foreigner and source through a Russian.

 

[sohail.ishaque]

Phuppo one-sided rishta final ker kai bethi hai

 

[Skyliner]

Again Russia trying to cap India, don't get your hopes high.

 

[CodeforFood]

its hannibal at the gates stole it and named it to enemy at the gates

time to send scipio to africa then?

 

[mingle]

So since this story broke out its gained a lot of momentum and shockingly there are some articles going about on the internet to backup the story - to a certain extent.

But here is my take on it.

A couple of days prior, PAF acquires jets from Egypt. US is not surprised that Pakistan took that route to avoid the trouble of going through Capital Hill for used F-16's.

Then all of a sudden this story comes out about: Pakistan - Russia (of all people) - US $9 Billion.

Somewhere in the US, Board Members at Lockheed Martin just went, "What the f**#!!!". They're scratching their heads and wondering why they're not getting a piece of the pie.

I sense this is merely a tactic the PAF have played to see if the US will blink in a staring contest. Question is: Who's playing who, here?

Donald Trump on the other hand is thinking...[feel free to watch the whole Video]

Now...

How can you be certain. You're obviously comparing its earlier variant - the MiG-29 which was designed during the Soviet-era in the late 70's. The MiG-35 had its 1st Test Flight in 2007. You do know that both MiG (Mikoyan) & Sukhoi, both belong to UAC (United Aircraft Corporation), so as far quality is concerned - they are at par with one another.

Exactly...

The last point is actually the first point.

Precisely...

Though, I agree with you... How exactly did you come to the conclusion that it faces built quality issues? How many Airforce's are currently operating the MiG-35?

Since when? Have you seen their GDP as of late...? This is a nation that was the first to place an order for the Rafales with 24. They are not broke! They have suffered some setbacks, politically. But even by being the most populated country in the Middle East, their Economy is steady & certainly one should not compare their situation with the likes of Pakistan (sorry guys).

Hmmm..., yeah okay - one could argue that its a 'beast', and its certainly (far) less than a Su-57. That is another conversation. But it is a very capable jet. And though I know that we'll never see it in the PAF, but i'd be itching to know/see what our boys would be capable of behind the controls of those jets.

Agreed 100% - And for the guys who have the Su-35 & S-400... Why not the S-500? Khuab pora...

We are. That's probably the reason why Leonardo has opened an office in Islamabad. Just imagine what we can get out of them... C-27J (Spartan), M345/6...things for the Navy.

Finally..., you may all find this part interesting:

The Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (Caatsa) was introduced in 2017 to target Russia, Iran and North Korea with economic and political sanctions. It also prohibits any country from signing defence deals with these nations.

India got a 'Get out of Jail' card because Trump on the purchase of the S-400. Hasn't worked out well with Turkey.
Reason: Well, you're all smart.

Agree with 9 billion LM probably offer make in Pak F16s instead of make in india.

 

[PurpleButcher]

Question is: Who's playing who, here?

Russia playing India!

 

[ARMalik]

This is just another news item and it has absolutely NO credibility - these are rumors being spread. Pakistan definitely needs good working relationship with Russia but there is ZERO chance that it will go for any big ticket items such as SU-35 and other non-sense being spread.

If Pakistan wants anything, it will go to China because both countries have strategic alliance and both militaries are working very hard on the Inter-Operateability between the two Militaries. Why the hell would Pakistan go to Russia against its own alliance?