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Russia, China looking to form NATO of the East?

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A.Rahman

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MOSCOW - Russia and China could take a step closer to forming a Eurasian military confederacy to rival NATO at a Moscow meeting of the six-member Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) Wednesday, experts say.

The group, which started in 2001 with limited goals of promoting cooperation in former Soviet Central Asia, has evolved rapidly toward a regional security bloc and could soon induct new members such as India, Pakistan, and Iran.

One initiative that core members Russia and China agree on, experts say, is to squeeze US influence - which peaked after 9/11 - out of the SCO's neighborhood. "Four years ago, when the SCO was formed, official Washington pooh-poohed it and declared it was no cause for concern," says Ariel Cohen, senior researcher at the Heritage Foundation in Washington. "Now they're proven wrong."

Wednesday's meeting is expected to review security cooperation, including a spate of upcoming joint military exercises between SCO members' armed forces. It may also sign off on a new "Contact Group" for Afghanistan. That would help Russia and China - both concerned about increased opium flows and the rise of Islamism - develop direct relations between SCO and the Afghan government. While this will be highly controversial given the presence of NATO troops and Afghans' bitter memories of fighting Russian occupation throughout the 1980s, the Russians have an "in" because they still have longstanding allies in the country.

In attendance Wednesday will be prime ministers of member states Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, as well as top officials from several recently added "observer" states, including Indian Foreign Minister Natwar Singh, Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, and Iranian Vice President Parviz Davudi.

The SCO's swift rise has been fueled by deteriorating security conditions in ex-Soviet Central Asia, as well as a hunger in Moscow and Beijing for a vehicle that could counter US influence in the region.

"Moscow is seeking options to demonstrate - to Washington in the first place - that Russia is still an important player in this area," says Fyodor Lukyanov, editor of Russia in Global Affairs, a partner of the US bimonthly journal Foreign Affairs. "China's ambitions are growing fast, and it also wants to turn the SCO into something bigger and more effective."

Russian leaders blame the Bush administration, with its emphasis on democracy-building, for recent unrest, including revolution in Kyrgyzstan and a putative Islamist revolt in Uzbekistan. "Washington wants to expand democracy, which it sees as a panacea for all social and geopolitical evils," says Sergei Karaganov, head of the Council for Foreign and Defense Policies, which advises the Kremlin. "But it is clear to us that any rapid democratization of these countries (in Central Asia) will lead to chaos."

An SCO summit last June demanded that the US set a timetable to remove the bases it put in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan with Moscow's acquiescence in the wake of 9/11. In July, Uzbek leader Islam Karimov ordered the US base at Karshi-Khanabad to evacuate by year's end.

But two recent visits to Kyrgyzstan by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice appear to have secured the US lease on that country's Manas airbase indefinitely - albeit with a sharp rent increase.

"There is nothing to cheer about," says Mr. Cohen. "Washington has signaled to the Russians that we won't be seeking any new bases in Central Asia. Basically, we are doing nothing to counter the moves against us."

In joint maneuvers last August, Russian strategic bombers, submarines, and paratroopers staged a mock invasion of a "destabilized" far eastern region with Chinese troops. This month, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov proposed holding the first Indian-Chinese-Russian war games under SCO sponsorship. "In principle, this is possible," he said. "The SCO was formed as an organization to deal with security issues."

Should states like India and Iran join, the SCO's sway could spread into South Asia and the Middle East. "India sees observer status [in the SCO] as a steppingstone to full membership," says a Moscow-based Indian diplomat who asked not to be named. But he added that India, which has recently improved its relations with the US, does not want to send an anti-US message. "We would hope the Americans would understand our desire to be inside the SCO, rather than outside," he says.

While the SCO's potential looks vast on paper, experts say internal rivalries would preclude it from evolving into a NATO-like security bloc. "What kind of allies could Russia and China be?" says Akady Dubnov, an expert with the Vremya Novostei newspaper. "The main question for them in Central Asia is who will gain the upper hand."

Still, the idea of a unified eastern bloc has strong appeal for some in Moscow. "It's very important that regional powers are showing the will to resolve Eurasian problems without the intrusion of the US," says Alexander Dugin, chair of the International Eurasian Movement, whose members include leading Russian businessmen and politicians. "Step by step we're building a world order not based on the unipolar hegemony of the US."

Says Cohen: "Eventually they'll wake up to this challenge in Washington. But will it be too late?"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20051026/ts_csm/oalliance_1
 
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If sco is formed then USA is done for.....

This thing will be big: Russsia, China, India,Pakistan,Iran.....


what are your thoughts on this ?
 
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Nice but, I think Pakistan must wait to join so it can get aid for the earthquake and f-16's from US.
 
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Originally posted by Kaiser@Oct 26 2005, 09:08 PM
Nice but, I think Pakistan must wait to join so it can get aid for the earthquake and f-16's from US.
[post=1367]Quoted post[/post]​

If we are gettin a seat in SCO then I think we should go for it, Russians will for sure offer us with SU's which are much better than F-16's we are gettin rite now
 
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Originally posted by A.Rahman@Oct 27 2005, 06:29 AM
If we are gettin a seat in SCO then I think we should go for it, Russians will for sure offer us with SU's which are much better than F-16's we are gettin rite now
[post=1382]Quoted post[/post]​


i think thats not gonna happen since india would be a member over there and would most likely wouldnt want pakistan's presence over there secondly Russia selling us SU's thats never gonna happen either
 
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Originally posted by Best of the Best@Oct 27 2005, 12:27 AM
i think thats not gonna happen since india would be a member over there and would most likely wouldnt want pakistan's presence over there secondly Russia selling us SU's thats never gonna happen either
[post=1386]Quoted post[/post]​
Ruissa only wants $$$.And india is buying french and other western stuff.That only leaves china.Why do you think that ruissa offered SU-35s to china .And besides china is much more stronger then india.Ruissa would go with china rather then india.And pakistan too is mordenzing it's military.And also pakistan is rethinking about the F-16 deal.So this is the perfect time for ruissa to sell some flankers. :bunny:
 
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Originally posted by Best of the Best@Oct 27 2005, 12:27 AM
i think thats not gonna happen since india would be a member over there and would most likely wouldnt want pakistan's presence over there secondly Russia selling us SU's thats never gonna happen either
[post=1386]Quoted post[/post]​


I think that pakistan has a great chance of getting into this alliance, we are currently on the road to peace with India, China will not oppose us neither will Iran. So If we get into this "NATO of the east" we have a good chance of getting SU's, If not then maybe MIgs ( maybe foxbat?). As long as we are the member of SCO and pay our bill on time, we are most likely to get the military aid from Russia
 
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mig (fox bat ) are mig25 are they ?? if i remmber they have stopped production of it
 
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i think that sco or nato of east will never succed because mutual differences with each countries ,
 
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Originally posted by A.Rahman@Oct 27 2005, 03:01 AM
If sco is formed then USA is done for.....

This thing will be big: Russsia, China, India,Pakistan,Iran.....
what are your thoughts on this ?
[post=1365]Quoted post[/post]​
they have to choose either pakistan or india for this block because both countries are rivals till the solution of kashmir!.......and if pakistan becomes the member of sco,it has many advantages specially we can get defence equipment from ex-soviet! :youknowme:
and with the help of sco, we can through US out of Asia! :PakistanFlag:
 
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Originally posted by coldfire2005@Oct 30 2005, 03:41 AM
i think that sco or nato of east will never succed because mutual differences with each countries ,
[post=1698]Quoted post[/post]​

Nato is made up of 37 countries.And all of them have some differences from the other countries.So this really does'nt matter
 
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it does matter , few years a go when russia ,china and india want to form a block to counter usa ans allies but that block never took off because of the mutual differences ,
 
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Originally posted by A.Rahman@Oct 27 2005, 02:31 AM
If sco is formed then USA is done for.....

This thing will be big: Russsia, China, India,Pakistan,Iran.....
what are your thoughts on this ?
[post=1365]Quoted post[/post]​
:laughing: I don't see Iran & Pakistan, India & Pakistan or India & China in the same military block for a long long time.
 
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Yep India with Pakistan can't be seen for next few decades. Pakistan with Russia is also a big doubt.
 
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