Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

[Kompromat]

Tablet of the day for Indians:

1: Has Russia made a right decision ? === NO (They could have sell Thousands of Engines )

2: Would Blocking the Engine sale Halt the Thunder program = NO

3: Will China being the Biggest Buyer of Russian Hardware take it as a good move = NO

4: Would Russia be viewed as a Trust worthy Supplier by other countries = NO

5: Would Pakistan be able to Get a New Engine = Hell yes WS-13 already has completed the Ground taxi run.

6: Would Thunder still Remain a Pain in the @$$ for India despite of French and Russian blocking sales ? = Yes !

* The Biggest Looser in this game is no one But Russia , we will get a new engine but they wont get a customer who can buy 5000 engines.

* @ Indians - Thanks for showing your true colors - this is what we expect from you and vice versa.

 

[Machoman]

Baaday he ****** hain yea India walay inhain mu laganai ki koshis na karna .....lol. India cry to everyone not to sell military stuff to Pakistan, kyun Kay India ki Pakistan say buri Tara phaatnai lag hai.
Oh please French pleople don't sell missile to Pakistan
Oh Russia please don't sell engine to Pakistan.
Oh USA please don't help Pakistan to build nuclear plant.

Cry cry cry and cry more.....

Keep crying losers we will still move forward and in the end will kick your vegetarian a$$ soon.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Rumors were there that China was going to or had ordered for a few hundred more of these engines for possible export orders, and as per below e-mail, Russia had agreed for the re-export of this engine to 6 countries,Egypt being one. But it seems the Russians had a change of heart as $$$s is a very dear thing in today's world. So now Russians are going back on their word as they want to sell their own MiGs or Sukhoi's.

Good thing is, China will once again see the true nature of Russia, and will further push towards making operational their own engines, so it may be a small setback for the Chinese export success, but in the long run, it will make their resolve harder.

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This is an issue between china and russia and their export competiton and nothing to do with india and pakistan. India has nothing to do with this as some pakistanis and indians are making out.

About China finding out the true nature of russians, well they should have thought of that before illegally copying russians jets

 

[RedKnight]

I have a practical solution, why doesn't Pakistan do mandwali with Russia, giving Russia some % profit from what they(Pk-Ch) earn by selling JF 17 with RD 93 engines, once WS 13 is ready then Pk-Ch can chuck out Russia??

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Tablet of the day for Indians:

: Has Russia made a right decision ? === NO (They could have sell Thous1ands of Engines )

2: Would Blocking the Engine sale Halt the Thunder program = NO

3: Will China being the Biggest Buyer of Russian Hardware take it as a good move = NO

4: Would Russia be viewed as a Trust worthy Supplier by other countries = NO

5: Would Pakistan be able to Get a New Engine = Hell yes WS-13 already has completed the Ground taxi run.

6: Would Thunder still Remain a Pain in the @$$ for India despite of French and Russian blocking sales ? = Yes !

* The Biggest Looser in this game is no one But Russia , we will get a new engine but they wont get a customer who can buy 5000 engines.

* @ Indians - Thanks for showing your true colors - this is what we expect from you and vice versa.

: Has Russia made a right decision ? === Yes, They sell more planes than engines.



3: Will China being the Biggest Buyer of Russian Hardware take it as a good move = NO...but do they have access to any other hi-technology other than Russia?

6: Would Thunder still Remain a Pain in the @$$ for India despite of French and Russian blocking sales ? = Yes ! It will be as it is a good aircraft. But am sure we will get enough beds to ease the pain. But hell yeah...we will cry.


* The Biggest Looser in this game is no one But Russia , we will get a new engine but they wont get a customer who can buy 5000 engines.


Well, The EAF needs the aircrafts real soon. And this will put the JF out of competition for now. And also increases the chances for the MiG 50%.

 

[Kompromat]

: Has Russia made a right decision ? === Yes, They sell more planes than engines.



3: Will China being the Biggest Buyer of Russian Hardware take it as a good move = NO...but do they have access to any other hi-technology other than Russia?

6: Would Thunder still Remain a Pain in the @$$ for India despite of French and Russian blocking sales ? = Yes ! It will be as it is a good aircraft. But am sure we will get enough beds to ease the pain. But hell yeah...we will cry.


* The Biggest Looser in this game is no one But Russia , we will get a new engine but they wont get a customer who can buy 5000 engines.


Well, The EAF needs the aircrafts real soon. And this will put the JF out of competition for now. And also increases the chances for the MiG 50%.

The only russian part we have in Thunders is the RD-93 Engines & we were to replace it with 100KTN -ws-13 Engine anyway.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/60214-fc-1-jf-17-powered-ws-13-engine-carries-taxi-trials-2.html

The People's Republic of China began development of the turbofan in 2000, taking into consideration that Russia may cave into Indian pressure and not allow the Klimov RD-93-powered JF-17 be exported to Pakistan.

However, China moved on with the exportation, neglecting Indian protests, allowing the successful induction of the first JF-17 squadron in Pakistan on 18 February 2010.

While initial production of the JF-17 will use RD-93 engines, later batches will be powered by the WS-13, which has 10% greater thrust, digital authority control system and solid titanium alloy fan blades.

The WS-13 Taishan was certified in 2007 and serial production began in 2009. An improved version of the Taishan providing a thrust of approximately 100 kN (22,450 lb) with afterburner is under development.

The 2010 March 18th edition of the HKB report stated that a FC-1 equipped with the WS-13 completed its first successful runway taxi test.

Stupid decision in My mind-we will emerge out of it even better than before.

 

[SomeGuy]

This is an issue between china and russia and their export competiton and nothing to do with india and pakistan. India has nothing to do with this as some pakistanis and indians are making out.

About China finding out the true nature of russians, well they should have thought of that before illegally copying russians jets

India has been good customer of Russia, but they try to rip you guys off anyway by increasing costs - look at the Adm. Gorshkov.

 

[ptldM3]

India has been good customer of Russia, but they try to rip you guys off anyway by increasing costs - look at the Adm. Gorshkov.

Frankly your stament is rediculous and an insult, the Gorshkov is one deal, and this may seem crazy but Russia has many different arms companies and although many of them are state owned they are seperate entities with their own leadership. For instance, Mikhail Pogosyan calls the shots at Sukhoi while other companies have their own board of directors, presidents, or whoever. Most Russian companies have been very fair with India even transfering some of their latest technologies; for instance, Sukhoi has alowed HAL to manufacture the SU-30 at an extreemly cheap price.

Further, i want to briefly talk about the Gorshkov, first off im going to start off by saying that i used to work for a company that build large ships so i am familiar with how things work. I must admit that at some point someone got greedy, and it is not the government but someone that is associated with the ship. However, i can tell you from experience that a large chunk of the cost over-run is justified. Ships are very difficult and time consuming, just because a time-line is set that doesn't mean the timeline will be met, more often then not it isn't. The planners of the Gorshkov grosely underestimated the cost and time to complete the project. Often times one problem leads to another, the more problems, the more time it takes to complete the project; the more time it takes the higher the cost; you also have to remember that ships often have hundreds or thousands of people involved in the construction. This could be anyone from ship builders, to engineers, to project managers. For instance, if a ship is being referbished and the keel is found to be in poor condition (rusted inside), the keel will have to be replaced, this will not only cost more money because a new component is being added but labor and a diversion of resources will cause delays and when delays arise cost rises.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Ok... now that solves "jf-17 out of farnsborough air show?" mystery.*

When did it go out ? I had heard it would make an appearance and more recently that it would only be a stationary display. Why cancel the appearance when they already have 100 or so engines ?

You guys need to get updated:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...er-out-farnborough-air-show-6.html#post977389

Its not only gonna be having Static display rather would be flying also.

Hope your mystery gets solved.

 

[khurasaan1]

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets​

Russia has blocked the sale of 100 RD-93 engines to China for FC-1, the joint Sino-Pak fighter, which could emerge as a rival for its MiG-29 fighter in the global markets, according to a report today.

"The new contract with China for the sale of 100 RD-93 engines has not been signed," Kommersant reported quoting its sources in the military-industrial complex.

The deal for the supply of second batch of 100 RD-93 manufactured by Moscow-based Chernyshev Machine building Plant for FC-1 (Pakistani version JF-17) was to be signed with China back in May, however, CEO of RAC MiG and Sukhoi Aircraft Holding Mikhail Pogosyan has torpedoed it, Kommersant business daily reported.

"One of the sources confirmed that Pogosyan has virtually blocked the deal with China by writing to the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) and Rosoboronexport (ROE) state arms exporter that FC-1 is a direct rival of Russian MiG-29 fighters in several foreign markets," the daily writes noting that Russian and Chinese fighters are in the race for an Egyptian contract.

"I am not against the re-export of individual technologies, but it should be done in agreement with the producers of finished-product, so that this re-export does not damage their interests," Pogosyan told Kommersant.

"Re-export is allowed by the government decision and we don't have a practice of consulting producers of finished products.

Under the inter-governmental bilateral agreement in November 2007 China was allowed to re-export RD-93 as part of FC-1 fighter to Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria," press service of state arms exporting monopoly ROE was quoted as saying by the daily.

The Kommersant reminds that Chernyshev Plant a part of United Engine Corporation has supplied 100 RD-93 engines to China under the USD 238 million deal signed in 2005.

A framework agreement for the sale of 500 such engines for the Sino-Pak joint fighter was also signed at that time and Beijing was ready to buy up to 1,000 engines in over USD 3 billion, if Russia agreed to offer its modernised version with greater thrust.

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets- Hindustan Times

Dont worry this is going to help us make our own top of the line engines for our JF17'ns inshallah. so we dont worry on anythng...

 

[Markus]

India has been good customer of Russia, but they try to rip you guys off anyway by increasing costs - look at the Adm. Gorshkov.

Price escalations are not a new thing or is not something that is restricted to India-Russia deals alone.

Even the India-French Scorpene deal came under criticism bcoz the French had revised the overall cost of the project almost at the last minute.

If I am not wrong the Brazil-French Rafale deal also had a price revision.

But we cannot blame the seller always, sometimes major delays from the buyers side also results in cost escalations. Defence is a very complex industry and any overlooking by project managers/planners can result in revisions later. This is considered normal.

You then use your diplomacy to deal with such issues.

 

[WAQAS119]

Ok... now that solves "jf-17 out of farnsborough air show?" mystery.*

Wake up!!!!!!!!
JF17 is not out of farnborough....!!!

 

[TaimiKhan]

This is an issue between china and russia and their export competiton and nothing to do with india and pakistan. India has nothing to do with this as some pakistanis and indians are making out.

About China finding out the true nature of russians, well they should have thought of that before illegally copying russians jets

I never mentioned India in any of my posts, rather i have pointed to the jumpy nature of the Indians on this news.

Secondly, as for Chinese copying Russian jets, i believe you are referring to Su-27s, well plzzzz read the full history, the deal was for ToT from the Russians to the Chinese, but it seems the Russians were giving problems, not full tech, equipment as well as some design things were being withheld from the Chinese, so once that started to happen, the Chinese who most probably had paid the Russians in advance for this tech, went their own way and decoded some of the codes for the Su-27 as well as the design features and equipment was achieved, thus it was more like Chinese getting pissed even though they had paid for the tech transfer.

But still it is between Russian & China, but as told before, it was the Russians who had allowed for re-export of the RD-93 to 6 nations, Egypt being one of them, so if they had agreed initially, they should not have backed down.

 

[WAQAS119]

You guys need to get updated:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...er-out-farnborough-air-show-6.html#post977389

Its not only gonna be having Static display rather would be flying also.

Hope your mystery gets solved.

I guess it will be a shocker for few indians, who were celebrating!!!!!!

 

[Hasnain2009]

I'd like to have 200 JF17 + 100 J 10s....Perfect choice

Why 100 J-10s only? When PAF has plans to induct 150 J-10B's.