Russia blocks RD-93 to Pakistan?

[vnomad]

Stop making stupid accusations,. if you read WS-13 recent news (you can go find it by googling it),. that it is now in the testing phase, theirs a link on PDF in air-force section posted by a chinese member, as well in PakDef, the news is just 4-7 days old.

Testing to production is a pretty long journey. Nobody is contesting the fact that the WS-13 will eventually enter service. Denial of the RD-93 will delay the JF-17 and thats about it. The RD-93 wouldn't have been ordered had the WS-13 been an immediate option. And a flying JF-17 doesn't mean the RD-93 deal is through.

 

[vnomad]

Bull,

Honestly I believe its all a media stunt, why else would it coincide with Putin's visit to India? The project is almost a decade old, don't you think Russia might have raised the EULA issue earlier when the first flight flew?

Let me ask you a simple question Neo. How important is the PAF order for RD-93s to Russia. IMO only marginally important. They have much more at stake starting with the MiG-35 option for the MRCA. I don't have to elaborate on the extent of Indo-Russian defence cooperation. Orders for the RD-93 just aren't important enough.

 

[Keysersoze]

Testing to production is a pretty long journey. Nobody is contesting the fact that the WS-13 will eventually enter service. Denial of the RD-93 will delay the JF-17 and thats about it. The RD-93 wouldn't have been ordered had the WS-13 been an immediate option. And a flying JF-17 doesn't mean the RD-93 deal is through.

You know It might not matter in the long run (If the RD-93 is not available), as what will probably happen is that the induction training will be done in China and when the Chinese option is available that PAK will get all the airframes in one shipment rather than in smaller shipments over time.

 

[Bull]

You know It might not matter in the long run (If the RD-93 is not available), as what will probably happen is that the induction training will be done in China and when the Chinese option is available that PAK will get all the airframes in one shipment rather than in smaller shipments over time.

You mean they will make the airframes now and when the engine is ready they will just fit it in and send you all at once.

So imagine they start making the airframes now and the engine is ready in 2009, will PAF be ready to take airframes 2 years old?

 

[Keysersoze]

You mean they will make the airframes now and when the engine is ready they will just fit it in and send you all at once.

So imagine they start making the airframes now and the engine is ready in 2009, will PAF be ready to take airframes 2 years old?

Well the RD-93 can be used to train upon in china the others can be stored. (No stresses upon the frame when it is not being used, and it is being stored correctly.) So for all intents and purposes they will be new.

 

[Bull]

Well the RD-93 can be used to train upon in china the others can be stored. (No stresses upon the frame when it is not being used, and it is being stored correctly.) So for all intents and purposes they will be new.

I dont know anything abt this, but i take your word for it.

 

[Keysersoze]

I dont know anything abt this, but i take your word for it.

I wouldn't take my word for it......I would ask MuradK as he is the pilot amongst us. He would know more about airframe stresses etc etc.....

 

[falcone]

The embargoed PAF F-16s stored in the US are kept in flyable condition. Because of their low flight hours, the aircraft have extended airframe lives.
"As a result, in accordance to the Pressler amendment to the Foreign Assistance Act, which forbids military aid to any nation possessing a nuclear explosive device, the United States government announced on October 6th, 1990 that it had embargoed further arms deliveries to Pakistan. The 11 Peace Gate III aircraft were consequently stored at AMARC (Aircraft Maintenance and Regeneration Center) at Davis-Monthan AFB, Arizona, also known as the Boneyard. There, they were put in 'Flyable Hold' for 5 years, during which time 85% of each aircraft's fuel system was preserved with JP-9, and each aircraft had its engine run once every 45 days. This resulted in the curious situation that most of those aircraft now have more engine run time than air time, the latter being only 6 hours. This low air-time figure, plus the fact that these aircraft are the most modern F-16A/B's built, is the main reason why countries interested in second-hand F-16s first look at the Pakistani airframes. "

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article14.html

 

[TexasJohn]

The embargoed PAF F-16s stored in the US are kept in flyable condition. Because of their low flight hours, the aircraft have extended airframe lives.
"As a result, in accordance to the Pressler amendment to the Foreign Assistance Act, which forbids military aid to any nation possessing a nuclear explosive device, the United States government announced on October 6th, 1990 that it had embargoed further arms deliveries to Pakistan. The 11 Peace Gate III aircraft were consequently stored at AMARC (Aircraft Maintenance and Regeneration Center) at Davis-Monthan AFB, Arizona, also known as the Boneyard. There, they were put in 'Flyable Hold' for 5 years, during which time 85% of each aircraft's fuel system was preserved with JP-9, and each aircraft had its engine run once every 45 days. This resulted in the curious situation that most of those aircraft now have more engine run time than air time, the latter being only 6 hours. This low air-time figure, plus the fact that these aircraft are the most modern F-16A/B's built, is the main reason why countries interested in second-hand F-16s first look at the Pakistani airframes. "

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article14.html

Aircraft mothballed in the boneyard are preserved amazingly well. Recently the Naval Air Station "regenerated" several F-16Ns for use.

The following link will show some of the preservation kits:

http://www.protectivepackaging.net/aircraftkits.cfm

Here is the link on what the USN is now flying

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2006/articles/oct_06/viper/index.html

 

[falcone]

Definitely, TexasJohn. In fact, the USAF and USN used embargoed PAF F-16s for training as well (check this page out, for instance: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_serials_airforce-PAF-num46.html ).

 

[Bull]

I wouldn't take my word for it......I would ask MuradK as he is the pilot amongst us. He would know more about airframe stresses etc etc.....

:wall: :wall:

 

[vampier]

how to counter this plane...
India is planning to obtain nuclear-capable 126 modern planes from the world market. Indians are exploring Russian MIG-35, French Rafael and Mirages-2000 four European countries (UK, Germany, France and Italy) joint production Typhoon and Swedish Grippens plane...:wall:

 

[Owais]

how to counter this plane...
India is planning to obtain nuclear-capable 126 modern planes from the world market. Indians are exploring Russian MIG-35, French Rafael and Mirages-2000 four European countries (UK, Germany, France and Italy) joint production Typhoon and Swedish Grippens plane...:wall:

Chill out mate. none of these deals are confirmed yet. when they will be getting Mig35 or F-18E/F, we will be fielding for another Plane like EUFTyphoon, Grippen, Jxx or J-10:flag: . and as far as mirage2000 is concerned, its not a big threat to PAF

 

[Janbaz]

Definately, PAF will invest in a new and highly advanced airframe as the EF 2000 just to boost the personale's morale if India goes for Super Hornet or Grippen. It will want to keep the confidence high.

 

[A.Rahman]

I wouldn't take my word for it......I would ask MuradK as he is the pilot amongst us. He would know more about airframe stresses etc etc.....

I am an engineer, ask me about the stresses