Russia and Ukraine war -Let's vote to determine about members view

[vizier]

At first it seemed Russia didnt consider a diplomatic solution and had expansionist aims so Ukraine was like the victim.But later on officials like Merkel admitted firsthand that Minsk was a joke for them to rearm Ukraine for an attack. It was meant to be disregarded as junk and trust of Russia to the European collegues was used to decieve Russia. During 8 years of armement Russia could do this much before as Ukraine was much less prepared. Also Ukraine leadership tries to spread this conflict to other areas like Georgia Iran etc. Their insistance on Crimea was also outside influenced to push and trigger Russia as much as possible. There are examples of this issue like Kosovo that was solved with a referandum. In these conditions supporting Ukraine is like supporting a continious war that has no end planned.

I am pro peace and hopeful for the Chinese proposal. It may involve Minsk like items which were signed back then and were used to trick Russia now taken seriously to reintegrate parts of Ukraine back according to a timetable. First Zaporijia then Kherson if it is fully complied by Ukraine within several years. In return sanctions can be gradually lifted on Russia and gradually their assets can be given back. Later on after several years I think Russia can also accept Donetsk to erase all sanctions and restart with Europe if the agreement is taken seriously this time unlike Minsk 2. Itegration cannot happen immediately but timely with security guarantees for both sides that is for sure.All integrated zones and Ukraine controlled middle regions east of Dnieper needs to be demilitarized gradually. Police forces from local population tied to central admin can provide security.

Also a buffer monitoring zone along the contact line starting from Kinburn spit all the way to the east is necessary that consist of Chinese and some European troops to track the ceasefire. Demilitarised zones are necessary with a middle buffer zone along the contact line tracking demilitarization of both sides by drones etc. Although Ukraine can station soldiers only to border areas like Sumy Chernihiv making middle areas demilitarized like Poltava Dnipro Kharkiv(border zone can remain) they may not accept total demilitarized zone east of Dnieper. That is like total retreat and open to immediate capture from Russia unless some security guarantee is given to Ukraine. Lets see the discussions about the proposal next week.

 

[Muhammed45]

At first it seemed Russia didnt consider a diplomatic solution and had expansionist aims so Ukraine was like the victim.But later on officials like Merkel admitted firsthand that Minsk was a joke for them to rearm Ukraine for an attack. It was meant to be disregarded as junk and trust of Russia to the European collegues was used to decieve Russia. During 8 years of armement Russia could do this much before as Ukraine was much less prepared. Also Ukraine leadership tries to spread this conflict to other areas like Georgia Iran etc. Their insistance on Crimea was also outside influenced to push and trigger Russia as much as possible. There are examples of this issue like Kosovo that was solved with a referandum. In these conditions supporting Ukraine is like supporting a continious war that has no end planned.

I am pro peace and hopeful for the Chinese proposal. It may involve Minsk like items which were signed back then and were used to trick Russia now taken seriously to reintegrate parts of Ukraine back according to a timetable. First Zaporijia then Kherson if it is fully complied by Ukraine within several years. In return sanctions can be gradually lifted on Russia and gradually their assets can be given back. Later on after several years I think Russia can also accept Donetsk to erase all sanctions and restart with Europe if the agreement is taken seriously this time unlike Minsk 2. Itegration cannot happen immediately but timely with security guarantees for both sides that is for sure.

That's true sir. I can imagine Americans before war pushing Ukraine over Crimean case. Americans : Who gives a damn about what Russians say, go on and take Crimea back, We will arm you Ukraine.

Minsk agreement was a cover for western agenda, something like Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement which was later abused by German NAZIs. Putin was wise enough to realize the threat before NAZIs of Ukraine attack St.Petersburg.

Also a buffer monitoring zone along the contact line starting from Kinburn spit all the way to the east is necessary that consist of Chinese and some European troops to track the ceasefire. Demilitarised zones are necessary with a middle buffer zone along the contact line tracking demilitarization of both sides by drones etc. Although Ukraine can station soldiers only to border areas like Sumy Chernihiv making middle areas demilitarized like Poltava Dnipro Kharkiv(border zone can remain) they may not accept total demilitarized zone east of Dnieper. That is like total retreat and open to immediate capture from Russia unless some security guarantee is given to Ukraine. Lets see the discussions about the proposal next week.

I don't think Russians would agree with a scenario like this. This has become a personal issue for Russians and till Ukranians do not give up, Russian army will level Ukranian cities non stop. If Ukraine gives up on joining NATO then there would appear hope that Russia leaves Ukrainian territory. Almost no one recognized annexation of Donetsk by Russia.

Ukrainian people better wake up and execute that rat called Zelenskyy who dreams of Khazar empire the big Israel of Europe. Ukrainians should realize that this is a Chabad plan to eliminate Slavs from Khazar empire. Wake up or die, obvious and easy to understand.

 

[vizier]

That's true sir. I can imagine Americans before war pushing Ukraine over Crimean case. Americans : Who gives a damn about what Russians say, go on and take Crimea back, We will arm you Ukraine.

Minsk agreement was a cover for western agenda, something like Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement which was later abused by German NAZIs. Putin was wise enough to realize the threat before NAZIs of Ukraine attack St.Petersburg.

I don't think Russians would agree with a scenario like this. This has become a personal issue for Russians and till Ukranians do not give up, Russian army will level Ukranian cities non stop. If Ukraine gives up on joining NATO then there would appear hope that Russia leaves Ukrainian territory. Almost no one recognized annexation of Donetsk by Russia.

Ukrainian people better wake up and execute that rat called Zelenskyy who dreams of Khazar empire the big Israel of Europe. Ukrainians should realize that this is a Chabad plan to eliminate Slavs from Khazar empire. Wake up or die, obvious and easy to understand.

Giving up Nato membership issue is a prequisite for negotiations that is understandable and considering the total lethal support given against Russia. It is a threat and it will be so. France and Germany can be guarantors of the agreement and of Ukraine. Russia has no issues with those countries as well.

Demilitarisation can be gradual and parallel like after buffer monitoring zone is established in the line of contact simutaneous gradual Russian withdrawal from Zaporijia and Ukranian withdrawal from neighboring regions Dnipro and Poltava monitored by drones. Then administrative integration process can start. After that if this works same process can start with left and right bank of Kherson simultaneously later on.

After zelensky rejects a sensible peace proposal it would be evident for most Ukranians that he is not pro independence of Ukraine but acts kind of like a vassal state used as a kamikaze attack to weaken Russia.

 

[Hack-Hook]

i support any thing that prolong the war , why there is no such option?

Giving up Nato membership issue is a prequisite for negotiations that is understandable and considering the total lethal support given against Russia. It is a threat and it will be so. France and Germany can be guarantors of the agreement and of Ukraine. Russia has no issues with those countries as well.

Demilitarisation can be gradual and parallel like after buffer monitoring zone is established in the line of contact simutaneous gradual Russian withdrawal from Zaporijia and Ukranian withdrawal from neighboring regions Dnipro and Poltava monitored by drones. Then administrative integration process can start. After that if this works same process can start with left and right bank of Kherson simultaneously later on.

After zelensky rejects a sensible peace proposal it would be evident for most Ukranians that he is not pro independence of Ukraine but acts kind of like a vassal state used as a kamikaze attack to weaken Russia.

what sensible proposal Ukraine once demilitarized , what it bring to them ?

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

Looking at the results, some faith is restored in this forum.