Russia and India to work on 5th-gen upgrade Su-35 to Su-35s

[Ind4Ever]

You wanna hear the latest buzz.. A known source told me GOI forced DRDO to crash Nirbhay.. Thats why the "fuel tank" issue was released in media 2 days before. The reason being Nirbhay actually has a design given to us from a very good friend of ours which made us build it from blue prints in 2007-212 era in Bangalore. The original was a 20 years R&D outcome was used by our friend in taking out some targets from small missile boats proving their true worth. This buzz was leaked even before Nirbhay flew and i came to know Thursday morning and you can check i did no comments anywhere about Nrbhay after hearing on Thursday itself.

Much later PSK picked it up and had posted in his blog those comments
see this
WHAT IF the Nirbhay was a cloned version of the Novator 3M14E Klub LACM, whose actual range is 1,500km (as demonstrated by Russia when it recently fired them off from the Caspian Sea), but whose restricted range is 290km when officially exported to the Indian Navy? Have you factored in that possibility? What is, just like the BrahMos-1 supersonic multi-role cruise missile, Russia parted with the long-range 3M14E’s design data & allowed the DRDO, HAL etc to back-engineer the LACM’s on-board avionics & propulsion systems & label them as ‘indigenous; products? Did you really assume or believe that an R & D lab like the ADE, which took more than a decade to develop a simple reusable target-drone like the Lakshaya, could have developed the Nirbhay LACM between 2007 & 2012?

Am not sure what really happened. But am sure nirbhay is not the product of just 7 years of R&D. Am not ruling out Russian help either. It's open and shut case that Russia helped Chinese and Indians and others in many ways. Chinese have this habit of getting into joint venture like our SuMKI but secretly to boost their morale as we all know about their insecurity. But nirbhay missiles are more Indian than Russian. If we had complete blue print these alleged drama could had taken place way before 2007 and by now we might have inducted. Kalam the master behind our rocket technology. Our missile technology is more mature than we think. Our Agni missiles especially Agni 5 far more superior to Chinese counter part. Which they themselves said it is equal to their missiles. Equal in their insecure terms means superior. Bad means equal.

On topic About Su35S...
I believe the Pakfa 5th gen tech can definitely downstream to Su30 MKI and Su35 but still it will make them closer to 5th gen but not 5th gen. As such if the RCS gets reduced for MKIs to around 5m2 (same as present Su35) then thats good enough and thats what targeted via Super Sukhoi program. But getting more 5th Gen tech can perhaps teeth it much better. Su35 Stealth version incorporating 5th Gen tech is not a true 5G bird but it does meet the Medium bird requirement in some manner which Air Chief clearly says has a requirement of at least 6 squadrons. In that sense its an alternative provided by Russia. Only one issue is Su35 is still closer to more of an air superiority package led jet similar to MKIs. Thus, if deep penetration strike was really forseen than Su34 was a better choice. Unfortunately, IAF wants Air superiority plus Ground deep penetration role or perhaps a better jargon is Omnirole. This is where Rafale pulls way ahead of Su35 and thus the news of 5th generation pack on Su35 to make it sound attractive.of course commanility of PAKFA/FGFA/ Super Sukhis and Su35 Stealth all deriving from same 5th Gen tech helps with newer missiles also getting under wings of all 3. But Su35/Su30MKI both have a deeper need of displaying or carrying out heavy ground attack role demonstrations even in exercises or live firings..

BTW a dark horse which is now chasing GOI is not US offered F16IN but rather F18 ASH. The kind of TOT, local manufacturing etc is indeed a very credible package. Even though its specs may be inferior to Rafale its still a very worthy bird for its proce. The rumour was NaMo met Boeing and Lockeed Martin Chiefs with a single agenda of saying can you set up a line in India for these birds and reply seems affirmative. This has been conveyed to France too. So Dassault is made clear whats India may get by opting for just 6 sqds of F18 ASH and restrict to Rafale for Nuke force usage only. This buzz came to me again with this Nirbhay news and is now a superb tactic used by GOI with Dassault to either see what they want or give a much better deal as per what India wants as options are finally with India. and BTW F18 ASH will not have any strings and also Israeli tech can be incorporated with modifications....

This does opens up the headache albeit a good headache of course

First thing first... F18 is no where near on our IAF radar. No way!!!

Second. It's true that two su35 were /are in India for very long time as usual Russian tactics of black mail by selling them to Chinese. It's true we are worried about capability of su35 with Chinese airforce. It has better RCS which means our MKI will be locked on at BVR by su35 leave alone it's avionics. So India should go for Improved version of Su35 as S35 in Chinese hand means another ripoff J series in the making.

But now we have stealth Flanker as PakFa. Which has more stealth than su35 or "alleged" Su35 S. Means better in BVR. Now we should go for PakFa directly from Russia and apply alleged Su35 S capabilities in Super upgrade and 2/3 new squadron manufacturered in super Sukois.

So we will have largest heavy duty fighterers with greater BVR capabilities in just one or two decades while while we keep pumping in AMCA MK2 FGFA. That's the way forward. I read in recent article that IAF interested in excersising it's 36 more Rafale and call it a day of Rafale saga.

So I think we will go for another BVR capable fighters before this year end(so delivery by 2017) which could be of course PakFa. Fingers crossed for Modi ji trip to Russia. Am not even closer to land so I don't have any links with buzzers

I think it's about su 30 mki upgrade..

Nothing else make sense , since we are buying pak fa already ..

Yes of course. Right thing to do will be to have 2 squadron of Flanker in Super standard. Basically Su35 S standard

 

[conworldus]

Thanks for this excellent piece of entertainment.

 

[Ind4Ever]

@Stephen Cohen
There are lot of good works done secretly but seldomly discussed in public
example In the recent IAF meet few points discussed as per insider is

1 .Su30 servicability had come a long way now reaching 70% and plan is to raise to 75% by max 5-6 months. A major part of spares and other contingencies are getting procured and IAF is not leaving any option to let anyone (read HAL) blame them for not sanctioning enough spares storage (critical and directly procured ones as well as long gestation ones). The ultimate aim is to raise it 80% in 18 months and a ambitious target of 85% plus in max 24 months.
Now if that is done its at par with reasonable availability of western fighters except few who have 90% plus availability specs.

2. Discussion on Su30 Super upgrade program. The initial batch of 80 selected fighters are already identified. Critical issues which are being looked includes newer engine with longer engine life and a internal target of 5m2 from present 20m2 with discussion of a possibility of using RAM coatings on specific squadrons"on demand" birds which may carry deep strike assets like ALCM with an ability to reduce the 5m2 figure further. AESA Radar selection is almost final. (again not declared to me)

A strange but solid topic of discussion was if a conformal fuel tanks linkages can be explored under Super30 program which may enable Southern bases to hit NW/NE zones without actually moving the Aircrafts to different bases. No clarity as of now but such a request is being actively considered to evolve the strategies.

3. Pakfa and FGFA program have issues which is making IAF top brass uncomfy. The initial plan of IAF was that tech help to develop a true 5th gen FGFA will enable india to utilize some of that tech in domestic project (AMCA and a future low end light fighter code named LCA Mk3). As of now the unavailability of much information is making them feel left out.

FGFA may have a MK1 version with single seater and a 2 seater more advanced version planned much later as Mk2.
Again the 5th gen engine is not ready so IAF lacks clarity

(F35 talks are for IN only with no word for IAF at all.)

4. Off the shelf purchase of present PAKFA is discussed to fill in quick 5th gen jet induction and study it closer and provide inputs to make FGFA customizable.

IAF has requested MOD to clarify whats the real capability of PAKFA and proposed FGFA. DM Parrikar is suppose to learn few things when he visits Russia.

5. Rafales choice is still being rooted unanimously. The plan included 80 off the shelf and 90 in MII. if 80 off the shelf is not agreed the second option is 36 flyaway now and another 36 in sometime (withing 2 years max) making the total of directly from france 72 and rest in india under MII. The brass is totally in awe with Rafale's capability.

6. LCA program progress was reviewed and 80 new orders for navy airframe based version was told

7. The faltering squadrons number was discussed in detail

8. The pilots training schedule is now getting converted into 2 stage from 3 stage. The 3rd stage will be reintroduced in 5-6 years when LCA LIFT will be procured in adequate numbers


Based on a specific query i asked to the source on Su35 Stealth 5th gen capability bird, there was no discussion at all. The presentation was made a total of 3 times by Russians to IAF and MOD. IAF brass informally agreed Su35 upgradation looks good but at present they are insisting to get the maximum of such upgrades to MKI under Super program. In other words, they are linking first the Super program to check the feasibility of such a tech in operational capability of a bird before embarking on a new platform which needs a bit of financing for producing and then procuring.

Brother all good but Rafale could be 36+36 and thats it. More would be really a foolish move. We already have heavily upgraded Mirage and now rafale. IAF already expressed interest in additional 36. And current 36 to be signed very shortly. I think it will be before Russia visit by PM

 

[SipahSalar]

according to a report published March 8

You could have waited a little more before posting this video.

 

[deepak.chauhan2312]

Russians chuna laga rahe hain baniye ko.

itna to tum bhi jante hi honge fir ki agar india baniya hai to baniye ko to koi ek paise ka bhi chuna nhi lga skta

 

[waz]

+ either way Pakistan's delusions of getting Su-35s are over.

I wouldn't day Pakistan's dreams, delusions, wishes etc . I'd say the guys who loved Russian jets. I was always sceptical of any "deal".

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Seems to fake. Super Sukhois will take care of the capabilities Su35 promises to give

 

[Sankpal]

can it modify to multi role fighter just like Japan did with f16

 

[A2Z]

thing is serviceability of MKI now is in access of 70% but still 6 squads of MKI are more than enof for PAF with two squads of upgraded M2k & 3 squads of upgraded Mig29s are more than enof to deccimate entire PAF ... think about it

Nice to hear about the serviceability, though it would have been nice if I could get a source as well but I trust you. And as far as you theory of PAF decimation is concerned once again if you are saying I wont disagree. IAF can come whenever they want and test your tall claims. Believe me you'll be surprised.
Cheers