Rs40bn new taxes in ‘mini-budget’ [ Good governance by experienced team ]

[rockstar08]

i don't think PTI will come in power in 2018 but we will see

Blasphemy

 

[Zibago]

And the 20% middle class is paying taxes???? !!!! Make an argument you can win. ONLY LESS than 2% of Pakistan tax eligible people pay taxes. The rest, are thieves as they hide their country's major source of revenue by evading tax, paying bribe to hide tax and do corruption. So in a country, where rich and the middle class, alike, don't pay taxes, how do you grow the remainder 70% of the poor people?

You put more taxes on the tax evaders. It would hurt the mostly consumers (again the rich and the middle class), and it would hurt the lower class too, but they already live off of budget. BUT, the future net effect would directly be on the 70% lower income poor people. As bigger projects end, these are the people who'll get better jobs and will move up the chain, creating a "tax paying" middle class.

You don't want taxes put onto things, you get to pay ACTUAL taxes you owe to your country. I think after ALL is said and done, people in the US, in middle to upper income class, pay about 50% taxes!!!! When 10% Pakistanis will start to pay 40% taxes, TRUST ME, you won't need the IMF. So clean your house instead of complaining. Respect your country and pay taxes, so it can grow and can create more opportunity for everyone, instead of begging for loans!!

Well you put high taxes on everyday items its impossible to avoid taxes but its hurts the middle and lower class more than upper class
Um no i am already paying high taxes instead of putting the burden of their failures on middle class they should increase their direct taxation revenue

Its because of high taxes smuggling has increased
Afghan transit trade main smuggling funnel
Barrels of troubled oil

 

[notorious_eagle]

Like how? How many on this forum pay their income tax?

You have answered your own question.

Many on this forum including me don't pay their full taxes because frankly the FBR does not collect them. Not to long ago, the FBR Inspector actually came up with a proposal for my brother, how we can avoid paying full taxes for our family business. Right now, the Government has no incentive of fixing the FBR because its easier politically to simply borrow money instead of collecting taxes.

Second, the Government can improve its fiscal performance by wasting money on State Run Elephants and Cosmetic Projects that add no value to the economy. An end of subsidy to Railways, PIA and Steel Mill will plug a hole that is almost equivalent to 10% of the Budget. If the Government installs competent Professionals at the right positions instead of filling the positions with their Loyalists, Governance will improve which will kickstart the economy and raise the economic growth. This will result in in increased tax revenues. These are just some of the proposals i can think of from the top of my head. If you're more interested, i can post a couple of Research Papers. S Akbar Zaidi wrote a fantastic piece not to long ago in Dawn, i highly recommend it.

The resources and potential in Pakistan is endless, the only thing that is lacking is a will to tap it. Unless institutional reforms are not initiated, the country will rotten from within. Why do you think despite so much effort that has been put by Nawaz Sharif, his Government has failed to add additional electricity to the power grid? Simple, because the institutions are rotten from the core and unless you don't fix them, they cannot deliver results.

 

[Jazzbot]

Like how? How many on this forum pay their income tax?

And who is responsible if people are able to easily evade income tax in Pakistan. Try doing this in any other country and take a wild guess where you'll end up within a couple of months?

The thing is, if you aren't going to bring any structural reforms, aren't going to make laws strict on tax evaders, aren't going to take solid steps against elite class then your government is as useful as nothing.

Better hand over the governance to IMF and go home, because IMF is the one running this government indirectly.

Need I remind you that the same Nawaz Sharif had once started a scheme called "Qarz Utaro Mulk Sawaro", remember that sh!t? The same NS used to go verbal retard in all public gatherings against taking loans and IMF and what not!!!

And then the same NS, when came to power, has taken more loans in 2.5 years than we've collectively taken in past 60 years. What a shame, what an irony that some nutbags like you are still trying your butts off to support this tout.

 

[Zibago]

And who is responsible if people are able to easily evade income tax in Pakistan. Try doing this in any other country and take a wild guess where you'll end up within a couple of months?

The thing is, if you aren't going to bring any structural reforms, aren't going to make laws strict on tax evaders, aren't going to take solid steps against elite class then your government is as useful as nothing.

Better hand over the governance to IMF and go home, because IMF is the one running this government indirectly.

Need I remind you that the same Nawaz Sharif had once started a scheme called "Qarz Utaro Mulk Sawaro", remember that sh!t? The same NS used to go verbal retard in all public gatherings against taking loans and IMF and what not!!!

And then the same NS, when came to power, has taken more loans in 2.5 years than we've collectively taken in past 60 years. What a shame, what an irony that some nutbags like you are still trying your butts off to support this tout.

Baat noon ki ho to model town bhe halal hay aur 4 months baad metro mein cracks bhe halal hain

 

[Zaneesh852]

You have answered your own question.

Many on this forum including me don't pay their full taxes because frankly the FBR does not collect them.

Do you want them to force taxes out of you?

Not to long ago, the FBR Inspector actually came up with a proposal for my brother, how we can avoid paying full taxes for our family business. Right now, the Government has no incentive of fixing the FBR because its easier politically to simply borrow money instead of collecting taxes.

So what would you do as citizen? bribe the FBR agent or pay your taxes?

Second, the Government can improve its fiscal performance by wasting money on State Run Elephants and Cosmetic Projects that add no value to the economy. An end of subsidy to Railways, PIA and Steel Mill will plug a hole that is almost equivalent to 10% of the Budget.

A-Who will buy a loss making enterprise?
B-Who will plug the gap it they are shut down?

If the Government installs competent Professionals at the right positions instead of filling the positions with their Loyalists, Governance will improve which will kickstart the economy and raise the economic growth. This will result in in increased tax revenues. These are just some of the proposals i can think of from the top of my head. If you're more interested, i can post a couple of Research Papers. S Akbar Zaidi wrote a fantastic piece not to long ago in Dawn, i highly recommend it

How would you define competence? A person from outside having a higher degree or a person from within the organization with longer service and hence more intimate understanding of the problems? We are not even discussing the internal issues.

The resources and potential in Pakistan is endless, the only thing that is lacking is a will to tap it.

We have been hearing this bullshit for a while now. A country which effectively spends 80% of its resources on security establishments is bound to be like Pakistan is today. So please take this load of bollocks elsewhere.

Unless institutional reforms are not initiated, the country will rotten from within. Why do you think despite so much effort that has been put by Nawaz Sharif, his Government has failed to add additional electricity to the power grid? Simple, because the institutions are rotten from the core and unless you don't fix them, they cannot deliver results.

That's agreed. But there's a limit to putting a fix on institutions. You can see the DESCO employees going on strikes as the descos head for privatization.

 

[batmannow]

They have stated that they will raise this issue in the National Assembly. In Lahore, PTI Punjab MPA's led a rally protesting against these tax hikes. IK has strongly condemned these taxes, and has urged the Government to withdraw these taxes. I am at a loss, what more can they do about these taxes?

What have other political parties done about these taxes? Its quite shameful that you're blaming PTI which is the only political party that has raised voiced against these taxes, but what about other political parties? PPP and MQM have largely became B and C Teams of PML-N. Disgusting.



In Pakistan, never say never. 2018 is far away, and if PML-N cannot solve the basic issues of the country, they will suffer the same fate PPP suffered in 2013. They have failed to bridge the basic issues of the people, this is why they have been forced to borrow so heavily from the Private and Public Sector. Load shedding still persists, even the most optimistic assumptions state that power cuts will continue till 2020. Even a die hard supporter such as you is having a hard time defending their policies.

Unless Nawaz Sharif moves away from his family and starts appointing people on the basis of merit instead of loyalty, things will not got any better my friend. You cannot take the country forward unless you hire the right, competent people for the right job.

& all these sort of tactics will stop noora league you think my friend ?
Why the hell PTI cant come out calling for a dharna ?
Believe me , this time peoples will eat this govt .

 

[Zibago]

Do you want them to force taxes out of you?

So what would you do as citizen? bribe the FBR agent or pay your taxes?


A-Who will buy a loss making enterprise?
B-Who will plug the gap it they are shut down?

How would you define competence? A person from outside having a higher degree or a person from within the organization with longer service and hence more intimate understanding of the problems? We are not even discussing the internal issues.


We have been hearing this bullshit for a while now. A country which effectively spends 80% of its resources on security establishments is bound to be like Pakistan is today. So please take this load of bollocks elsewhere.


That's agreed. But there's a limit to putting a fix on institutions. You can see the DESCO employees going on strikes as the descos head for privatization.

So burdening the middle and lower class is the way to go if you cant get the uppe class to pay taxes?

In southern Pakistan because of hig taxes on petroleum products more people are buying Iranian smuggled oil instead from petrol pumps just because taxes are way too much

80% on security? its more like 3-5% of gdp and 16% of our budget dont spread misinformation

& all these sort of tactics will stop noora league you think my friend ?
Why the hell PTI cant come out calling for a dharna ?
Believe me , this time peoples will eat this govt .

Dheet awaam

 

[batmannow]

So burdening the middle and lower class is the way to go if you cant get the uppe class to pay taxes?

In southern Pakistan because of hig taxes on petroleum products more people are buying Iranian smuggled oil instead from petrol pumps just because taxes are way too much

80% on security? its more like 3-5% of gdp and 16% of our budget dont spread misinformation


Dheet awaam

No , they can't see any other option ?
With all the social networking apps in their hands , they are just systematicly programmed to working for this so called democracy , even if it means to led the destruction of the state itself ?
That's what happened to , Iraq , Libya & now been tried in sirya ?

 

[Zibago]

No , they can't see any other option ?
With all the social networking apps in their hands , they are just systematicly programmed to working for this so called democracy , even if it means to led the destruction of the state itself ?
That's what happened to , Iraq , Libya & now been tried in sirya ?

No one like super high taxes but we are finding new ways to avoid them

Bhai bacha jomhora ki toheen mat karo gunah milta hay

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan does not need IMF support. It needs to initiate structural reforms to overcome its current challenges. Pakistan can generate far more resources internally, than what IMF can provide to Pakistan.

That may be true, but going to IMF has always been a voluntary choice.

 

[Jzaib]

Like how? How many on this forum pay their income tax?

i do it cut from my pay. and everythng i buy include vat. most of the peoploe in this forum are nokari pesha. u should ask that to businessmen and u should ask your leaders that they were in power for last 3 decades what did they do about tax reforms.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Do you want them to force taxes out of you?

I want them to enforce the Law, which states force the taxes out of me.

A-Who will buy a loss making enterprise?

There have been enough Parties from the Private Sector who have expressed interest in buying these Organizations. They are only loss making because they are not managed well. The Assets that they hold alone on their Balance Sheet are enormous. And frankly, the political class don't want to give up control over these Assets because they are ideal organizations to hire your political supporters. Our beloved Minister for Petroleum Shahid Abbasi has PIA to thank for his enormous wealth and Air Blue.

B-Who will plug the gap it they are shut down?

Railways i can understand but not these other loss making entities. Besides, semi privitization if executed right can be very beneficial. Case in point, PTCL. Compare PTCL from the 90's to what it is now.

How would you define competence? A person from outside having a higher degree or a person from within the organization with longer service and hence more intimate understanding of the problems? We are not even discussing the internal issues.

Right man for the right job.

For Example, an accomplished Engineer with proven track record to be the Minister of State for Water and Power instead of someone like Abid Sher Ali, who is not an Engineer and has no experience in the Energy Sector. Nawaz Sharif intentions were to end load shedding within two to three years, that has failed and despite several projects they have failed to add any extra power to the grids. Why, because they don't have the right people for the right job. Abid Sher Ali and Khwaja Asif are not the right people. Why do you think Nandipur collapsed? Simple because the person in charge of running it was an old Sharif Family Loyalist who was a career bureaucrat for LDA and had no experience in the power sector. You don't hire an Economist to do a Doctor's job.

We have been hearing this bullshit for a while now. A country which effectively spends 80% of its resources on security establishments is bound to be like Pakistan is today. So please take this load of bollocks elsewhere.

80%? Where are you getting this number from? Pakistan's Defence Budget makes up about 19% of the Federal Budget and 3% of the GDP. Still harping on the same lies that are sprouted by the Indians. At least do your research before starting an intellectual debate.

That's agreed. But there's a limit to putting a fix on institutions. You can see the DESCO employees going on strikes as the descos head for privatization.

Off course the Status Quo will push back. But this is where your resolve comes in, and the determination to fix things. There was enough push back from PTCL employees when it was being partly privatized, but guess what Musharraf stuck to his guns and look how well PTCL is performing today.

That may be true, but going to IMF has always been a voluntary choice.

More like a politically convenient choice, easier to borrow money than to get people to pay taxes.

 

[Zaneesh852]

i do it cut from my pay. and everythng i buy include vat. most of the peoploe in this forum are nokari pesha. u should ask that to businessmen and u should ask your leaders that they were in power for last 3 decades what did they do about tax reforms.

1-You should really work on your English.
2-When WHT on businessmen was imposed it was none other than PTI which used it for political advantage.

So burdening the middle and lower class is the way to go if you cant get the uppe class to pay taxes?

In southern Pakistan because of hig taxes on petroleum products more people are buying Iranian smuggled oil instead from petrol pumps just because taxes are way too much

80% on security? its more like 3-5% of gdp and 16% of our budget dont spread misinformation


Dheet awaam

90% of the salaried class is already below taxable income. The tax evasion is maxed in business and proprietorship which is dominated by middle-high middle income class. Real estate is another big black market dominated by brokers and investors (Expats+Businessmen)

 

[Zibago]

1-You should really work on your English.
2-When WHT on businessmen was imposed it was none other than PTI which used it for political advantage.


90% of the salaried class is already below taxable income. The tax evasion is maxed in business and proprietorship which is dominated by middle-high middle income class. Real estate is another big black market dominated by brokers and investors (Expats+Businessmen)

And we from the midle class are made to pay up for the incompetence of fbr