If I was the decision maker----I would have at this stage swallowed my pride and shut down the Tejas project----and just said---fck it----enough is enough---I have given it way beyond a fair share of time and money---we need an aircraft to fight a war---not to fill out the pockets of the babus and engineers or create jobs---or to stafisfy hurt and unhurt egos----admit the defeat and move ahead with life---and understand the fact that sh-it happens to real living souls in this world.
Sign up with either gripen for NG or Lockheed for F16IN----get production rights and start producing it in india full fledged---I had learnt what I needed to produce an aircraft and now it was time to put the engineers to work on the real things---.
1. Mastan Bhai time frame of developing the technology, setup the institute, with the aim of developing the whole aerospace ecosystem and parallel turbofan engine program and the budget of 1.2 + 2 Billion in 30 years minus funds unavailable period and sanction period is pretty good. It is late but hardly 3-4 years period.
2. Mastan Bhai SAAB offer for the Grippen for Make in India only after India developed LCA Tejas.
3. However going with you theory, what is the cost of the Grippen and compare it with the LCA Tejas.
4. When the requirement is of light wt small multirole fighter, then how could Mig-21 been replaced with F-16 or Grippen NG on one on one basis for an
interceptor Role other wise ADA could have simply designed MKI not a tailess delta platform.
5. Instead of looking on the Babus, look at the hard work of the engineers and scientist who work day and night in ADA and GTRE and their contribution could not be denied.
6. The idea of LCA program is not only a plane but to develop the core technologies in India, to lower the technology gap, and to build the whole aerospace ecosystem. So tell me does the LCA program did that, and are we in wrong path. Think this way.
1. FBW, FACEEC, Composites, Turbofan Engine, Aesa Radar, BVR
2. Tata aerospace, Reliance, Godrej, Mahindra more than 20 aerospace pvt company in India.
3. Prithvi -1 150 km, Liquid fueled (takes 30 min for fuel) g2g ballastic missile and now Shaurya, K-5, K-15, Agni V, Ramjet, Cramjet,
At the time of war---the soldier don't give a fck if it is make in india or make in pakistan----he wants a good weapon that can work and take charge over the enemy. I have an enemy to face that is an absolute ars-ehole and here I am discussing the intricacies of make in india or not make in india---wheras I should have been discussing to be or not to be---wtf.
At the time of war, the soldier fight with whatever they are given, and they do whatever to make best use of it. However Make in India, means they could be produced in numbers if required, other than waiting for some one to send.
Now---let me go back----if I had the same choice---I would have shutdown down the production of the JF 17 and gone for the J10B years ago----.
I think
@Horus had given you the answer in one of the thread for this question, however I am confused, why you failed to understand the reason why you don't want to understand it. Its the budget which also have to be seen, and the choice of the fighter planes are not made on the basis of their advertized capabability instead its evaluation and the need for the specific role. If it does not fit the role, then it doesn't matter whether it is highly capable or not.
For J-10 B's this plane don't have a reliable powerplant. It is very good 4+ fighter plane but for the China and PLAAF.
Now I don't know why you failed to understand this simple thing and keep on arguing again and again same stuff and thankx god you didn't named J-11, J-16 because they could not be exported due the IPR issue with the Russia. For China they give priority to the indigenous stuff, because its the need of their status right now.
Even ADA could have flown LCA tejas with Kaveri Engine presently but the engine will remain underpower, and unreliable with less TBO (Stated by the ADA chief himself).
I would not be in this fcking misery that I am in today----the F16 dillema---the JF 17 Blk 2 drama---2 years behind schedule----.
F-16 dillema -- Read the
@Horus post about the same, why PAF went for F-16, I am banned in Pakistan defence section so could not give you the link.
JF-17 blk2 drama because R&D demands faith, time, and funds. If you don't know what the problem, challenges they are facing, how do you whether they are doing drama or not. E.g for Block 3 you want to put AESA inside the nose of the bird, but you find out that the limited space creates the problem for the heat decippation.
I would have been a J10 centric air force with all my aircraft on level with the F 16 BLK 52---capabilities and upwards after inducting the J10C's for eurofighter / rafale type capabilities.
J-10 is still evolving, and right now if you are comparing with the F-16, Eurofighter, Rafale, then I think you don't have much technical knowledge. And the choice of not inducting J-10 by PAF is due to the fact that it is still not matured with unreliable Engine, and don't think that PAF decission makers are Idiots. They are in more appropriate position and capable than you and me to make this choice.
The same thing here is with the JF 17----. I need to fight a war---I need to start filling the hole at the top rather than fill up the bottom feeders. I don't need no frigging EXPERIMENTS---I face an enemy 3 times the military I have.
First of all whom you need to fight -- India, then the budget don't permits to have the parity with the IAF in technology and numbers to be frank. Indian Defence budget is 50 Billion just 2.3% of the GDP, and in future this going to increase manifold, so it would be foolish to make comparison, and arm race. I am glad, there are many Sane thinkers in Pakistan, who are not nut to think so. This is what pakistan is doing so e.g AEW SAAB 2000 and if I talk about the PAF, then they did the right by the choice of JF-17 because they have the limited budget and have to replace the ageing old birds the Nanchang Q-5, Mirrage 3/5 and J-7 and still would be able to maintain the present sizable number. To be frank PAF should be appretiated to maintain such numbers even with this limited funds available.
We need a war to win---not create a fcking car / aircraft dealership selling aircrafts----where air marshalls are now making car sales pitches---what a fckd up military is it----.
Son---I tell you---there are dumb fckrs on both the sides---otherwise we both be dead by now---or we both had open borders---this frigging mediocrity is screwing us hard.
The word " worthwhile " is a frame of mind---it is a matter of ego---when ego takes over common sense---it controls your thinking process---it is a black hole that pulls you in---it is a classic case of manufacturing GOLD----.
With Imported weapon you can only win the Battle, but not the WAR.
A fighter planes keeps on evolving and new technologies are included with the change of the challenges and tactics.
The Airforce makes tactics, exercise with it for the time, when it is needed. I will not discuss that the US pilot even if had Mig 29 and Mig 25, and Iraqi F-16 and F-14, the result of the Desert Storm would have been the Same -- Statement of not me but the US air chief but what is important is that the plane which is good for that role.
For the High End IAF already have SU-30MKI, Mirrage 2000 UPG and Mig 29UPG and soon Rafale also, but if need the low end with cheaper flying costing then its the LCA Tejas not the Rafale. The advantage of the indigenous product is the customization of the plane by the Local OEM HAL. And with this bird, we could think of developing AMCA, because development of technologies is the
evolutionary process not the revolutionary process, which you are thinking.
You seems to ignore the future development.
1. LCA MK-2 with F-414IN engine
2. EVIC TVC, which will increase the AOA, STR and remove the AOA limitation
3. Indian IFF Data link with Indian algorithm for secreacy.
4. Indian EW Suite designed by DARE including frameless HUD, MAW, RWR, AESA Jammer, AESA MMR in short Indian Spectra.
5. Refinement and reduction of wt. but increase of payload upto 5500kg.
6. Astra 2 with the Buddy Fire control means Tejas using MKI superior radar to target and fire and control.
The time frame of LCA MK2 is 2019 first flight, and FOC till 2024 if I exclude the Uttam AESA and Kaveri to be ready at that time frame, then could you compare it of 45 Million bird with the Grippen - Ng with 80 million bird both with the same engine and TVC, one with the Raven Aesa and one with the ELTA 2052 MMR, one with the costly european munition and one with the Indian Astra 1/2, LGB.
Remember the stories of good old days---when people could be fooled into making gold and spending their fortunes over it----that is where I rate this Tejas project.
I will go with the ADA chief statement --
The Story of LCA Tejas will inspire many Generation.
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