Robert Fisk: Pakistan Is In Pieces

[T-Faz]

so does irans mouth , omans mouth, qatars mouth.

i dont know how 40% of oil supplies go thorugh it.







trait of Hormuz
The Strait of Hormuz is by far the world’s most important chokepoint with an oil flow of 16.5-17 million barrels per day.
Located between Oman and Iran, the Strait of Hormuz connects the Persian Gulf with the Gulf of Oman and the Arabian Sea. Hormuz is the world's most important oil chokepoint due to its daily oil flow of 16.5-17 million barrels (first half 2008E), which is roughly 40 percent of all seaborne traded oil (or 20 percent of oil traded worldwide). Oil flows averaged over 16.5 million barrels per day in 2006, dropped in 2007 to a little over 16 million barrels per day after OPEC cut production, but rose again in 2008 with rising Persian Gulf supplies.
At its narrowest point the Strait is 21 miles wide, and the shipping lanes consist of two-mile wide channels for inbound and outbound tanker traffic, as well as a two-mile wide buffer zone. The majority of oil exported through the Strait of Hormuz travels to Asia, the United States and Western Europe. Currently, three-quarters of all Japan’s oil needs pass through this Strait. On average, 15 crude oil tankers passed through the Strait of Hormuz daily in 2007, along with tankers carrying other petroleum products and liquefied natural gas (LNG).
Closure of the Strait of Hormuz would require the use of longer alternate routes at increased transportation costs. Alternate routes include the 745 miles-long Petroline, also known as the East-West Pipeline, across Saudi Arabia from Abqaiq to the Red Sea. The East-West Pipeline has a capacity to move five million-bbl/d. The Abqaiq-Yanbu natural gas liquids pipeline, which runs parallel to Petroline to the Red Sea, has a 290,000-bbl/d capacity. Other alternate routes could include the deactivated 1.65-million bbl/d Iraqi Pipeline across Saudi Arabia (IPSA), and the 0.5 million-bbl/d Tapline to Lebanon. Oil could also be pumped north to Ceyhan in Turkey from Iraq.







Please dont write whatever that comes in your mind, ALWAYs...

India will stand to loose alot when the WOT is over and the region is stable. This is why there is alwys so much commotion there.

********.com - India Alarmed As Chinese Built Gwadar Port Of Pakistan Becomes Operational

 

[Bingo!]

The strategic importance of Pakistan

Strategic Importance of Pakistan

Strategic Significance of Pakistan

Afghanistan And Pakistan: Comparative Analysis Of Geostrategic And Geo-Political Significance

Even indian military personnel and journalist have commented on its importance.

Thanks... This was also included in the link you provided.


Since you agree to it. so are the facts in it.

Now the US focus is to exploit Pakistan’s peculiar geography to keep control over the Muslim world of Pakistan itself, Afghanistan, Iran, Gulf region (with huge Pakistani émigré workers), Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan etc.

How is US going around doing this:

1. Four military bases in Pakistan are under permanent US control (this is same situation as it was in 50s)

2. Pakistan is now hugely dependent on the economic assistance it has received from US in last two years and likely to receive in next decade or so.

3. India and Pakistan are being force fed a solution on Kashmir issue with a sweat talk of “Road Map for Peace” in Kashmir.

4. A pro west government is in place in Afghanistan. Opposition forces in Afghanistan are constantly under surveillance to keep them in check. Pakistani military intelligence – ISI is helping the US to achieve that (it is still questionable).

5. Hunt for Osma Bin Laaden and AlQaeda will continue for many more years to come, which will keep the pro west government in Afghanistan in tact.

6. US is building up relationship with Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, again using Pakistani intermediaries

7. Iran is an odd ball. It is under pressure from US for its capture of the US Embassy in 1978 and also trying to build an Atomic Bomb. It is friendly to India for economic reasons than to Pakistan. But it is just a matter of time when US and Iran will confront each other on one or the other issue. At that time Pakistan will be very important to the US.

8. Gulf states, who are not friendly to US, after the demise of Saddaam Hussain are likely to fall in line.

In each of the above, Pakistan’s importance is vital to US. Pakistan is a fundamentalist Muslim state (thanks to the Zia Ul Haq). It is able to cultivate Muslim dictators in neighboring states whether they wear a military uniform or in civilian clothes much more easily than sweat talking US diplomats with pocket bulging with dollars.

 

[gogbot]

muaaaa

sorry to disheart you

I asked a question and you give me a reply,

that's called dialogue

Why would that dis-heart me.

If you right then i know better and can make better arguments.

If i am right, then the same applies to you.

pakistan and afghanistan both join mid east with central asia

Ya i said that , in my post. it's not important enough to make Pakistan the most strategic location in the world.

By your own admission , Pakistan can be completely avoided.
and all supplies can go through Afghanistan.

That only changes if you want to get to India.

In which case you have either go through Pakistan or China.

In fact the only important position Pakistan can apply to is that of the middle man between India and Iran.

So Pakistan's location as important as the relations between India and Iran

Iran can get to china through Afghanistan.

Well to be fair , you could is its as important as the relationship that Iran has with China and India

and then again you see our map pakistan's Balochistan province is at the mouth of strait of Hurmaz, from where 40 % of worlds oil supply passes daily.....

Which has nothing to do with Pakistan.

Do the stop any ports, do they even go near Pakistan. NO

and then if you again see the map china , a super power of asia is at the north which is the best ally of pakistan

ya a lot of countries border China. so ?

Is there a crucial trading route , that cant be done without Pakistan ?

and and and

What cant think of any other reasons reasons ?

but son it needs time and i hope you will grow up \

you should have come up with more reasons to strengthen you case then post such a childish comment.

What would it accomplish,

If you did not care about what i think, why did you bother to reply.

Try to be more subjective.

Talk to people like adults, this isn't high school

 

[Don Ramsay]

I asked a question and you give me a reply,

that's called dialogue

Why would that dis-heart me.

If you right then i know better and can make better arguments.

If i am right, then the same applies to you.



Ya i said that , in my post. it's not important enough to make Pakistan the most strategic location in the world.

By your own admission , Pakistan can be completely avoided.
and all supplies can go through Afghanistan.

That only changes if you want to get to India.

In which case you have either go through Pakistan or China.

In fact the only important position Pakistan can apply to is that of the middle man between India and Iran.

So Pakistan's location is only as important



Which has nothing to do with Pakistan.

Do the stop any ports, do they even go near Pakistan. NO

ya a lot of countries border China. so ?



What cant think of any reasons ?



you should have come up with more reasons to strengthen you case then post such a childish comment.

What would it accomplish,

If you did not care about what i think, why did you bother to reply.

Try to be more subjective.

Talk to people like adults, this isn't high school

so you are suggesting me to learn from you

 

[gogbot]

so you are suggesting me to learn from you

We all learn form each other.

what your so high an mighty , that a lowly India cant possible no more than you.

Attitudes like these are just, what kill forum's .

Discussion is just ruined because some one , thinks their view is the only view and everyone else is just an idiot.

 

[T-Faz]

Thanks... This was also included in the link you provided.


Since you agree to it. so are the facts in it.

You just shot on you own foot my friend, you say that Pakistanis believe in conspiracy theories and come up with illogical explanations. Here is your proof and may I ask if you need anything more.

As for all those things mentioned, dont you think pakistan is working against them and have succesfully altered the situation. There will not be a west friendly government in Afghanistan. Also they forgot China in this equation and China has been working quietly but very actively in making sure this does not happen.

Now India is stuck becuase they assumed this would would happen becuase US fed it to them but now its a whole different story.

The Hindu : Opinion / Lead : India and Iran's Afpak policy



We are not some dumb idiots, you know. We knoz the greater scheme of things.

 

[Don Ramsay]

We all learn form each other.

what your so high an mighty , that a lowly India cant possible no more than you.

Attitudes like these are just, what kill forum's .

Discussion is just ruined because some one , thinks their view is the only view and everyone else is just an idiot.

I never called u an idiot

 

[Bingo!]

India will stand to loose alot when the WOT is over and the region is stable. This is why there is alwys so much commotion there.

********.com - India Alarmed As Chinese Built Gwadar Port Of Pakistan Becomes Operational

Great news indeed, china building port in gwadar, china building dams there, roads etc etc..

Unfortunaltly you wont hear anything like that from this direction.. why?/

We build our own roads, dams and ports.

 

[Bingo!]

You just shot on you own foot my friend, you say that Pakistanis believe in conspiracy theories and come up with illogical explanations. Here is your proof and may I ask if you need anything more.

As for all those things mentioned, dont you think pakistan is working against them and have succesfully altered the situation. There will not be a west friendly government in Afghanistan. Also they forgot China in this equation and China has been working quietly but very actively in making sure this does not happen.

Now India is stuck becuase they assumed this would would happen becuase US fed it to them but now its a whole different story.

The Hindu : Opinion / Lead : India and Iran's Afpak policy



We are not some dumb idiots, you know. We knoz the greater scheme of things.

Bottom line: US has now more bases in the area, which included Afghanistan.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/29190-us-base-pakistan-cost-1-billion.html

 

[gogbot]

I never called u an idiot

Well you did allude to the notion that, you know better than me.
And that i or anyone else following the thread am not worthy of your time, to make a detailed explanation of your.

and then of course you just laughed at the notion that i could possible make a stronger point then you and then you could learn for that.

Well that all implies the statement

You know better and there is something wrong with the rest of of us, for not reaching the same conclusion.

Because if you saw everyone equally, you would give them the same explanation you would want.

I am not saying you have to be nice about it, but just treat the person on the other end like an adult.

Calling them a kid, isn't going to get you anywhere or make your point any clearer.

 

[ajpirzada]

Bottom line: US has now more bases in the area, which included Afghanistan.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/29190-us-base-pakistan-cost-1-billion.html

if you havent realised US is not gettin visas anymore and only necessary visas are given now. we will talk when they finish this project

 

[ajpirzada]

Great news indeed, china building port in gwadar, china building dams there, roads etc etc..

Unfortunaltly you wont hear anything like that from this direction.. why?/

We build our own roads, dams and ports.

lolzzz..... there is a thing called investment, partnership and financing.

 

[T-Faz]

Great news indeed, china building port in gwadar, china building dams there, roads etc etc..

Unfortunaltly you wont hear anything like that from this direction.. why?/

We build our own roads, dams and roads.

Dont be disheartened, we built our own roads, dams and ports too. Check out our roads such as M11 and the whole network of motorways, we also build dams and we also built ports by the name of Karachi port and Bin Qasim. But our friends also build more of these for us, so we get more than anyone else.

This is friendship and mutual trust where we have gained and given back. You had USSR but they infiltrated your country badly and had everyone on payroll especially Indira, but they didn't do much for the country.

 

[ajpirzada]

wat an uneducated person you are. where are you coming from?

only shamsi base in pakistan is being used by US for logistical purpose.

 

[Bingo!]

lolzzz..... there is a thing called investment, partnership and financing.

Yes. there is that word called foreign investment .. i see it everyday in newspapers here.

But what i don't hear is foreign bases in my country.