Roads in New Delhi vs Karachi

[F86 Saber]

Discussions of air forces and jets in a thread about road.....Oh the irony....

 

[Cricketer]

How many people here are relying on more than just anecdotes and pictures grabbed off the internet?

Anybody seen both cities? Anybody read more than a single survey of the transportation systems of both cities? Any scientific data or measurable indicators?

While you have specified "roads" as the main thing, it clearly shows the mentality that runs in the minds of urban upper middle class Pakistanis who simply cannot give a damn about a public transportation system. Islamabad's lack of an effective (or an ineffective one) public transportation system reflects the mindset, the ideology, the lack of will and spirit for social welfare and general social uplift among the residents of Islamabad who epitomize the upwardly mobile urban middle class in Pakistan.

I've been to New Delhi more than once and I assure you that while the road infrastructure in old Delhi is indeed incapable of holding much of any traffic and most highways are far worse than ours, the public transportation system is a great blessing for the working class. As most, maybe all members here represent middle and upper middle class, they simple couldn't care less about public transportation which is the main source of transportation for the general public.

Delhi's Bus Rapid Transit System and Delhi Metro both work efficiently, especially comparing to nonexistent public transportation in Islamabad or the existing poor systems in other major cities.

Regularized, administered and managed Public transportation has never existed in Pakistan, for it has never been the state's policy to address it. Local municipalities do not have enough resources to pay off their bills, much less invest in public transport. Provincial governments are deprived of tax revenue, all of which is eaten by the federal government. And the federal government is inefficient, twisted towards working on non general welfare projects and would have filed bankruptcy years ago had it been a corporation. Ineffective and inefficient governance has allowed the exploitation of the general public who are left at the mercy of transpiration mafia who transport 18 people inside a 10 seater van across towns, stopping at every inch of road and causing traffic jams. Buses are overloaded, in dilapidated condition and there exists no municipal control beyond basic price regulation.

I've seen more than half a dozen Indian cities and I can attest to the fact that highways across India are no match for our highway infrastructure. Most major highways across India are undergoing expansion and improvement but Pakistan's highway and inter city infrastructure is in much better condition, is far newer, far wider and overall far better. Intercity transport was painfully slow in India (except the Delhi Gurgaon expressway) compared to Pakistan where you can woof from Peshawar to Lahore in four hours. Our motorway system will be complete till Multan by the end of 2013 and around 2015 it will be Peshawar to Karachi by access controlled highways besides major transportation routes like the old N-5, the newer N-55 and the expansive national highways.

Intracity transport can be problematic and efficient at the same times. Elite urban areas are connected by expansive roads regardless of the fact that they need a 90 feet wide road to carry limited transportation and they have no sidewalks (who walks in an elite neighbourhood, duh !). More populated, denser and older areas are forgotten for nearly every penny spent by the state is deviated toward catering for the elites. Older neighbourhoods in Delhi face nearly the same prospect as far as I saw. Conditions were better in Mumbai and other cities when it came to older neighbourhoods.

Overall, Pakistan has a much better highway infrastructure. India's intracity transportation systems lack much because they have existing and sometimes efficient public transportation systems. They might lack the "width" that appeals to many untrained minds (expanding the road will solve all traffic problems mindset which appeals to most bureaucrats, politicians and appeases the upper middle class as it gives an incentive to buy even more cars to flood the streets).

No one can disagree that Delhi is hell lot cleaner and greener city than any of the cities in Pakistan...I have been to Islamabad for a trip but really i find New Delhi 10 times better(Being frank)
Tidiness and cleanliness is maintained in Delhi better than Islamabad or any other Pakistan city..

As for Public Transport..
Only roads and buses do not mean Public Transport
India has the most dense network of Railways in Asia.
Delhi Metro,Kolkata metro and soon Mumbai Metro are the other plus points...
Pakistan lacks these facilities.
Another reason for your opinion towards Public Transport in India can be it's massive population.
It's obvious that a country with more population will have some traffic jams,transport problems but the population factor helps the national economy and the nation so very very effectively.

Metro earns Rs.7 Crore in delhi every minute!

 

[Cricketer]

How many people here are relying on more than just anecdotes and pictures grabbed off the internet?

Anybody seen both cities? Anybody read more than a single survey of the transportation systems of both cities? Any scientific data or measurable indicators?

While you have specified "roads" as the main thing, it clearly shows the mentality that runs in the minds of urban upper middle class Pakistanis who simply cannot give a damn about a public transportation system. Islamabad's lack of an effective (or an ineffective one) public transportation system reflects the mindset, the ideology, the lack of will and spirit for social welfare and general social uplift among the residents of Islamabad who epitomize the upwardly mobile urban middle class in Pakistan.

I've been to New Delhi more than once and I assure you that while the road infrastructure in old Delhi is indeed incapable of holding much of any traffic and most highways are far worse than ours, the public transportation system is a great blessing for the working class. As most, maybe all members here represent middle and upper middle class, they simple couldn't care less about public transportation which is the main source of transportation for the general public.

Delhi's Bus Rapid Transit System and Delhi Metro both work efficiently, especially comparing to nonexistent public transportation in Islamabad or the existing poor systems in other major cities.

Regularized, administered and managed Public transportation has never existed in Pakistan, for it has never been the state's policy to address it. Local municipalities do not have enough resources to pay off their bills, much less invest in public transport. Provincial governments are deprived of tax revenue, all of which is eaten by the federal government. And the federal government is inefficient, twisted towards working on non general welfare projects and would have filed bankruptcy years ago had it been a corporation. Ineffective and inefficient governance has allowed the exploitation of the general public who are left at the mercy of transpiration mafia who transport 18 people inside a 10 seater van across towns, stopping at every inch of road and causing traffic jams. Buses are overloaded, in dilapidated condition and there exists no municipal control beyond basic price regulation.

I've seen more than half a dozen Indian cities and I can attest to the fact that highways across India are no match for our highway infrastructure. Most major highways across India are undergoing expansion and improvement but Pakistan's highway and inter city infrastructure is in much better condition, is far newer, far wider and overall far better. Intercity transport was painfully slow in India (except the Delhi Gurgaon expressway) compared to Pakistan where you can woof from Peshawar to Lahore in four hours. Our motorway system will be complete till Multan by the end of 2013 and around 2015 it will be Peshawar to Karachi by access controlled highways besides major transportation routes like the old N-5, the newer N-55 and the expansive national highways.

Intracity transport can be problematic and efficient at the same times. Elite urban areas are connected by expansive roads regardless of the fact that they need a 90 feet wide road to carry limited transportation and they have no sidewalks (who walks in an elite neighbourhood, duh !). More populated, denser and older areas are forgotten for nearly every penny spent by the state is deviated toward catering for the elites. Older neighbourhoods in Delhi face nearly the same prospect as far as I saw. Conditions were better in Mumbai and other cities when it came to older neighbourhoods.

Overall, Pakistan has a much better highway infrastructure. India's intracity transportation systems lack much because they have existing and sometimes efficient public transportation systems. They might lack the "width" that appeals to many untrained minds (expanding the road will solve all traffic problems mindset which appeals to most bureaucrats, politicians and appeases the upper middle class as it gives an incentive to buy even more cars to flood the streets).

Coming to relying on pictures from the net...

Can you suggest a better method to prove a city's worth?

Apart from that,I m in New Delhi and have been to Islamabad...

and as i said already i find New Delhi 10 times better

that's the reason CWG is happening here! and have come to hear from friends that Formula 1 Grand Prix is also going to be held here!

Don't you think facilities in Delhi including PUBLIC TRANSPORT
is better than any other city in south asia..that's why it's been chosen by CWG committee and F1's committee.

Best Buses that you can see in Asia...Delhi has 7,500+ of these..and about 11,000 by CWG!




and the red are AC buses,current;y 2,500+ and 5,000 to be in by CWG!

 

[EyelessInGaza]

How many people here are relying on more than just anecdotes and pictures grabbed off the internet?

Anybody seen both cities? Anybody read more than a single survey of the transportation systems of both cities? Any scientific data or measurable indicators?
....

Excellent post. It confirms what I thought -I have not been to Pakistan - that Pakistani highway infrastructure was much better than ours. I wasn't aware that our public transport was more efficient, though.

Incidentally, I suspect that many if not most of the pictures from both nations are 'vanity shots' - clear roads, broad highways, no traffic, scenic vistas. The reality is likely to be - clogged roads, honking vehicles, sweating drivers!

 

[EyelessInGaza]

.....

Cricketer - is that you running from the bus, escaping school, as you launch your glorious attack on the Turkish army?

 

[Cricketer]

Cricketer - is that you running from the bus, escaping school, as you launch your glorious attack on the Turkish army?

That's probably your American house keeper coming running direct from usa running towards his humble indian home.

 

[Cricketer]

Excellent post. It confirms what I thought -I have not been to Pakistan - that Pakistani highway infrastructure was much better than ours. I wasn't aware that our public transport was more efficient, though.

Incidentally, I suspect that many if not most of the pictures from both nations are 'vanity shots' - clear roads, broad highways, no traffic, scenic vistas. The reality is likely to be - clogged roads, honking vehicles, sweating drivers!

New Delhi roads are clogged?
That's what i expect of an Indian American:-A person who can't serve it's home nation but live like a secondary citizen in another nation.
New Delhi is clogged,dirty,******...yet it's hosting CommonWealth Games and Formula 1 Grand prix in 2011....why?isn't it ironical to your comments?

Did the CWG and F1 members forgot that there was your country THE USA! in this world as well?with no clogged roads?
They must have seen Delhi worth to host 2nd biggest sporting event in the world(CWG) and F1

 

[sohan]

Delhi is NOT clogged/dirty.

Probably one of the few Indian cities that isn't

 

[EyelessInGaza]

New Delhi roads are clogged?
That's what i expect of an Indian American:-A person who can't serve it's home nation but live like a secondary citizen in another nation.

I guess that pretty much sums up the quality of debate. I suggest that since we do not know each other, interpretations of "service to the nation" and "living as second class citizens" are pretty moot, despite being childish.

New Delhi is clogged,dirty,******...

Please point me to where I said they were dirty? It would help if we stick to what was said, not what you imagined was said.

yet it's hosting CommonWealth Games and Formula 1 Grand prix in 2011....why?isn't it ironical to your comments?

Did the CWG and F1 members forgot that there was your country THE USA! in this world as well?with no clogged roads?
They must have seen Delhi worth to host 2nd biggest sporting event in the world(CWG) and F1

The CW games will be held on a Delhi road?

The F1 will be organized from CP to the Sangam Theater in RK Puram?

What does holding these events have to do with the roads and the traffic?

Delhi is NOT clogged/dirty.

Probably one of the few Indian cities that isn't

Again never said it was dirty.

As for clogged, I could give you my experience of driving there a few months ago (wall to wall traffic in rush hours), or I could give links to a few articles.

But I'll just stick to pictures:

delhi traffic jams - Google Search

 

[xMustiiej70]

my god my god....
how stupid are these guys here...
what im going to do with over 200 tanker aircraft.. and over 200 trainer aircraft.
when im talking about air force.. im alking about combat fleet.
which is by turkey better and bigger...
and indian navy is 5th and turkish navy 8th.. but thats BECAUSE OF PERSONALL.
we have much better submarines frigates(tf-2000)(some country calls them destroyers and even warships) milgem(frigates)..
And the army is sooooo bad equipped... of indian army...
its just big population which increases some ranks.. thats it.
compare turkey and india.
i say turkey has combat air fleet and navy in bigger numbers and better.
turkey has the higher techs and better equipped.
Also they are 100times better trained and displined then the indians.
i think even best displined soldiers.(or after russia).
turkey dont have nuclear arsenal.
but they do have 90nukes from cold war.
enough to destroy cities.

Also i can call all the details what those air crafts and all those things have. but i dont because that would be too long.
dont think calling these details and me not makes you right...
Just get it..
Turkey has everything better. its just big population of india..
but in the end.. at full scale war.. dont think 1billion people can join army..

 

[EyelessInGaza]

^^^ Oh lawd here we go again.

Can't you fanboys take your macho posturing to the relevant thread? Or open one?

 

[Skeptic]

I guess that pretty much sums up the quality of debate. I suggest that since we do not know each other, interpretations of "service to the nation" and "living as second class citizens" are pretty moot, despite being childish.



Please point me to where I said they were dirty? It would help if we stick to what was said, not what you imagined was said.



The CW games will be held on a Delhi road?

The F1 will be organized from CP to the Sangam Theater in RK Puram?

What does holding these events have to do with the roads and the traffic?



Again never said it was dirty.

As for clogged, I could give you my experience of driving there a few months ago (wall to wall traffic in rush hours), or I could give links to a few articles.

But I'll just stick to pictures:

delhi traffic jams - Google Search

Spare the kid. He has not been out in office hours anyways.
< Rant begins>
I can guarantee Jams in Mumbai and Delhi are worst in Asia. All the six eight and watever lane roads are just feeding to bottlenecks and traffic siganls. No-one follows the rules (Even I have to drive on the wrong side of road atleast once a month and I am the one cursing hardest at those braking rules).

Roads are always 3 years behind time. Prime example (If you are from Delhi) Even DND flyway connecting Noida iis Jammed every morning 9:30-11:00) stoppage time atleast 15 mins.

And the road I need to take daily - The non stop road connecting South Delhi to Airport NH8 - Wow man - It is probably the first time in history - where traffic direction on a flyover was reversed officially as it was poorly thought out and designed.

Dont get me started - Traffic is a very touchy subject for me. And even today - we have as many thathia blue-line buses as we have these low floor one's. Dont make me prick all the bubbles now!!
<Rant Ends>

 

[sohan]

my god my god....
how stupid are these guys here...
what im going to do with over 200 tanker aircraft.. and over 200 trainer aircraft.
when im talking about air force.. im alking about combat fleet.
which is by turkey better and bigger...
and indian navy is 5th and turkish navy 8th.. but thats BECAUSE OF PERSONALL.
we have much better submarines frigates(tf-2000)(some country calls them destroyers and even warships) milgem(frigates)..
And the army is sooooo bad equipped... of indian army...
its just big population which increases some ranks.. thats it.
compare turkey and india.
i say turkey has combat air fleet and navy in bigger numbers and better.
turkey has the higher techs and better equipped.
Also they are 100times better trained and displined then the indians.
i think even best displined soldiers.(or after russia).
turkey dont have nuclear arsenal.
but they do have 90nukes from cold war.
enough to destroy cities.

Also i can call all the details what those air crafts and all those things have. but i dont because that would be too long.
dont think calling these details and me not makes you right...
Just get it..
Turkey has everything better. its just big population of india..
but in the end.. at full scale war.. dont think 1billion people can join army..

No. Just no.

I won't even bother.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Spare the kid. He has not been out in office hours anyways.
< Rant begins>
I can guarantee Jams in Mumbai and Delhi are worst in Asia. All the six eight and watever lane roads are just feeding to bottlenecks and traffic siganls. No-one follows the rules (Even I have to drive on the wrong side of road atleast once a month and I am the one cursing hardest at those braking rules).

Roads are always 3 years behind time. Prime example (If you are from Delhi) Even DND flyway connecting Noida iis Jammed every morning 9:30-11:00) stoppage time atleast 15 mins.

And the road I need to take daily - The non stop road connecting South Delhi to Airport NH8 - Wow man - It is probably the first time in history - where traffic direction on a flyover was reversed officially as it was poorly thought out and designed.

Dont get me started - Traffic is a very touchy subject for me. And even today - we have as many thathia blue-line buses as we have these low floor one's. Dont make me prick all the bubbles now!!
<Rant Ends>

Thank you.

I have seen Delhi traffic for the better part of 25 years now , and it keeps getting worse.

For anyone who drives to work, it's an utter horror. A few months ago I was driving daily from around the CP area to my company's local office in Nehru Place. There were times (not too many, mind you) when I could not see the freakin road for a mile...so many cars so close to each other.

Granted that I have now become a 'soft/ pampered' 'American', but this is ridiculous.

 

[Iggy]

lolz i think both EyelessInGaza and Skeptic should be termed as traitors for posting baseless and photoshopped images

back to the topic i dont know about Delhi and Mumbai but in my city if you are driving a bike you should have some luck with you to reach the destination point ..The way buses are coming at you make my heart come in to my mouth