RND: Erdogan becomes a danger to NATO

[BHAN85]

I would change the UK flag for a USA flag. Anyway, I can't stop of laugh seeing this:

 

[Foinikas]

Umm...ok.

Why are you being sarcastic? When someone claims he is a "Macedonian" and that "Macedonia was never Greek",thus claiming the identity,he also claims the land of Macedonia,as the ones in FYROM do. That's why they've been printing maps of some "united Macedonia" or play songs and videos on TV,talking about "evil Greeks who stole Makedonija and Aleksandar Veliki" from them and they will come to Solun and take it back etc etc.
Aren't you supposed to live in Skopje? Don't you know all that?

That is debatable but honestly I don't care.

Ok if you don't care. You're Bosnian-Croat or something? So it makes sense. But it's a completely ridiculous "debate". All the evidence of Macedonia's Hellenic identity are there. And that's something even many of them know and laugh about. But the nationalists keep continuing that brain-washing that started during Tito's rule and intensified after 1991.

I love how you mentioned "he ended up"in your country's embassy.I guess he showed up there by accident.Btw all those you mentioned quickly denied him protection and did so openly while if it was up to Greece he would still be in hiding.

"He left Syria on the 9 October 1998 and for the next four months, he toured several European countries advocating for a solution of the Kurdish-Turkish conflict.[74] Öcalan first went to Russia where the Russian parliament voted on 4 November 1998 to grant him asylum.[75] On the 6 November, 109 Greek parliamentarians invited Öcalan to stay in Greece, a move which was repeated by Panayioitis Sgouridis [el],[75] the deputy speaker of the Greek Parliament at the time.[76] Öcalan then chose to travel to Italy, where he landed on the 12 November 1998 at the airport in Rome.[77] In 1998 the Turkish government requested the extradition of Öcalan from Italy,[78] where he applied for political asylum upon his arrival. He was detained by the Italian authorities due to an arrest warrant issued by Germany.[79] But Italy did not extradite him to Germany, who refused to hold a trial on Öcalan in its country.[80] The German chancellor Gerhard Schröder as well as the Minister of the Interior Otto Schily preferred that Öcalan would be tried by an unspecified "European Court".[77] Italy also didn't extradite him to Turkey.[79] The Italian prime minister Massimo D'Alema announced it was contrary to Italian law to extradite someone to a country where the defendant is threatened with a capital punishment.[81] But Italy also didn't want Öcalan to stay, and pulled several diplomatic strings to compel him to leave the country,[74] which was accomplished on the 16 January[82] when he departed to Nizhny Novgorod in hope to find a safe haven in Russia.[74] But in Russia he was not as much welcomed as in October, and he had to wait for a week at the airport of Strigino International Airport in Nizhny Novgorod.[74] From Russia, he took an airplane from Saint Petersburg to Greece where he arrived in Athens upon the invitation of Nikolas Naxakis, a retired Admiral on 29 January 1999.[74] He spent the night as a guest of the popular Greek author Voula Damianakou in Nea Makri.[74] Öcalan then attempted to travel to The Hague, to pursue a settlement of his legal situation at the International Criminal Court, but the Netherlands would not let his plane land, sent him back to Greece, where he landed on the island Corfu in the Ionean Sea.[74] Öcalan then decided to fly to Nairobi on invitation of Greek diplomats.[83] At that time he was defended by Britta Böhler, a high-profile German attorney who argued that the crimes he was accused of would have to be proven in court and attempted to reach that the International Court in The Hague would assume the case.[84]"

Absolutely.Judging by how stubborn and uncooperative greek politicians are,military threat from Turkey is far more effective to get them on the right path than any pleas or negotiations.

When Turks threatened with war in 1987,we didn't back down. We were willing to go to war,if they wanted it so much.

In Yugoslavia,there were other players involved. Remember that not even Russia did much to intervene and protect the Serbs. Of course the Russians were very weak back then,but they were still an important player.

The Americans and the Europeans wanted to keep things as much in control as they could.

I would change the UK flag for a USA flag. Anyway, I can't stop of laugh seeing this:

Crees que estamos contra los Turcos por Britania o America? No sabes que estamos en lucha por casi 5 siglos,pues con los Otomanos. Todos aqui creen que Grecia hace cosas porque los Americanos o otros nos dicen. Pero no es la verdad.

 

[Foinikas]

He hates Turks, Turkey and Erdogan.

Do you hate Indians and Modi?

Nato needs Turkey, now more than ever.

For what? To fight Russia? Or for Turkey to sign more deals with Putin?

Turkey, UK France and Poland will be crucial.
Turkey will be armed to Teeth and even allowed to deal with Greece.

But that's the thing,Turkey is not on the NATO camp like they used to be in the '80s and '90s.
Turkey,the last 10-12 years,has been more of an "occasional" ally who sides with USA one day and Russia the next day. Who shoots down Russian jets,then buys S-400s,then attacks the allies of Russia,then attacks the allies of USA,then asks for Russian Su-35s and Su-57s,then attacks other allies of Russia,then threatens NATO countries,then asks for F-16s,then goes back to Russia and asks for a second nuclear reactor.

 

[BHAN85]

Crees que estamos contra los Turcos por Britania o America? No sabes que estamos en lucha por casi 5 siglos,pues con los Otomanos. Todos aqui creen que Grecia hace cosas porque los Americanos o otros nos dicen. Pero no es la verdad.

Los americanos os venden armas y se aprovechan de vuestro odio a Turquía para sus propios planes, a eso siempre se le ha llamado ser un tonto util.

Useful idiot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Como se le llamaba a los comunistas occidentales de quienes se aprovechaba la URSS en la guerra fría.

 

[Foinikas]

Los americanos os venden armas y se aprovechan de vuestro odio a Turquía para sus propios planes, a eso siempre se le ha llamado ser un tonto util.

Useful idiot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Como se le llamaba a los comunistas occidentales de quienes se aprovechaba la URSS en la guerra fría.

They kept the balance for decades in the Cold War.

Now,the balance is gone and Turkey has been arming like crazy.

 

[BHAN85]

They kept the balance for decades in the Cold War.

Now,the balance is gone and Turkey has been arming like crazy.

At least they have a great own military industry.

Meanwhile Greece buy foreign weapons with debt money that they dont have.

Foreign expensive weapons will fall from the sky with a simple single mouse click of USA. All eavesdroped and plenty of backdoors, useless.

 

[Foinikas]

At least they have a great own military industry.

Meanwhile Greece buy foreign weapons with debt money that they dont have.

Foreign expensive weapons will fall from the sky with a simple single mouse click of USA. All eavesdroped and plenty of backdoors, useless.

Ok,if your country is under threat,just stay there and sign the surrender.

 

[BHAN85]

Ok,if your country is under threat,just stay there and sign the surrender.

Wars and conflicts can be avoided with right economic deals.

Like USA did in Iran Deal.

But It's USA who design the scenarios, they say when to fight and when to sell, deal or gift. And sovereignless countries obbey to get a bagful of money (corrupt leaders) or by emotions like hate (common Greek people, common Ukraine people).

 

[Trango Towers]

He hates Turks, Turkey and Erdogan.
Nato needs Turkey, now more than ever.
If Nato goes after Russia ( Cold war type confrontation or Direct military action ),
Turkey, UK France and Poland will be crucial.
Turkey will be armed to Teeth and even allowed to deal with Greece.

America and Anglo-Saxons have no friends or morals...just interests

Do you hate Indians and Modi?


For what? To fight Russia? Or for Turkey to sign more deals with Putin?


But that's the thing,Turkey is not on the NATO camp like they used to be in the '80s and '90s.
Turkey,the last 10-12 years,has been more of an "occasional" ally who sides with USA one day and Russia the next day. Who shoots down Russian jets,then buys S-400s,then attacks the allies of Russia,then attacks the allies of USA,then asks for Russian Su-35s and Su-57s,then attacks other allies of Russia,then threatens NATO countries,then asks for F-16s,then goes back to Russia and asks for a second nuclear reactor.

This all started because USA backed the Kurdish against Turkey. And ofcourse the Israel problem. Israel says jump...America and Christian slaves jump

 

[Damir877]

You see you don't know well, when this proposal was made....Ozal had died of a heart attack. This proposal was made in Pale, as revealed a year later by the Yugoslav Foreign Minister Yovanovic, where of course Mitsotakis refused it.
You are probably young, and obviously the Turks are teaching you history.

Is that right?Are you sure it wasn't it made in Bucharest and then Belgrade with Romanian and Bulgarian presidents also present on the firs meeting(Pale,lol)?And are you sure it was Serbs not Mitsotakis who proposed it?For someone who claims to know about that situation you sure seem to have a lot of your facts wrong.
Not just me but late Bulgarian president Zhelyu Zhelev and Greek journalist Tahis Mikas also had their brains washed by the Turks.
Yes I am very young and naive and have no clue about all that was happening but at least with the internet I can get educated on the matter by very unbiased and objective experts like yourself.

We didn't hide it

Of course you didn't.

 

[Damir877]

Why are you being sarcastic? When someone claims he is a "Macedonian" and that "Macedonia was never Greek",thus claiming the identity,he also claims the land of Macedonia,as the ones in FYROM do. That's why they've been printing maps of some "united Macedonia" or play songs and videos on TV,talking about "evil Greeks who stole Makedonija and Aleksandar Veliki" from them and they will come to Solun and take it back etc etc.
Aren't you supposed to live in Skopje? Don't you know all that?

You see that is the exact same reason that i am sarcastic.Because since i have been here(1990) to this day I have never heard anyone say they will "take Solun back".And given the size of North Macedonian army not even the most crazy nationalists have said something that ridiculous.

Öcalan then decided to fly to Nairobi on invitation of Greek diplomats

Invitation?Ok then,glad we finally sorted that out.

 

[Foinikas]

Wars and conflicts can be avoided with right economic deals.

Like USA did in Iran Deal.

But It's USA who design the scenarios, they say when to fight and when to sell, deal or gift. And sovereignless countries obbey to get a bagful of money (corrupt leaders) or by emotions like hate (common Greek people, common Ukraine people).

Bro,I honestly don't remember your real nationality,but Turkey's economic deal to avoid war is to give them half of the Aegean. Their MoD keeps repeating that we "have to share the wealth of the Aegean together". It's like me telling you to give me your house or else...and you say "I'm not giving you my house" and I'm telling you "ok,then let's be friends,give me half of your house,we can share it".

In this case,it's not the Americans that design scenarios and stuff.

We have a neighbor,who constantly repeats threats like "We will come one night,suddenly" or "Behave or we will teach you a lesson" or "if you don't disarm the islands,their sovereignty is disputed" or "We will throw you to the sea,like your ancestors".

The Americans have nothing to do with Erdogan's expansionist plans. On the contrary,they don't approve and that's why our interests align on this.

You see that is the exact same reason that i am sarcastic.Because since i have been here(1990) to this day I have never heard anyone say they will "take Solun back".And given the size of North Macedonian army not even the most crazy nationalists have said something that ridiculous.

Man of course they can't do it. But there's this nationalist narration from many of them,who print maps,make videos,post such stuff on sites,make dumb claims etc. You can find plenty of those online. I could post some here,but it will derail the entire thread.

Invitation?Ok then,glad we finally sorted that out.

Dude seriously,he travelled half of Europe,stayed in various countries asking for asylum...and you concentrate on Greece? He was staying in Syria for years. He went to Russia,to Italy,to Greece,then Russia again,then left. I mean,come on.

 

[Foinikas]

and Greek journalist Tahis Mikas

This obscure guy who is basically a nobody in Greece and was the only one accusing the GVG of "war crimes" in Bosnia without any evidence AT ALL. Leftist guy with an agenda who made allegations without any proof. Again though,you're derailing the thread with different stories.

 

[Damir877]

Man of course they can't do it. But there's this nationalist narration from many of them,who print maps,make videos,post such stuff on sites,make dumb claims etc. You can find plenty of those online. I could post some here,but it will derail the entire thread.

So because few idiots make fools of themselves,that justifies Greece breaking international law,with full support from NATO and EU?
By your logic Turkey would have every right to invade Greece next time some drunk idiots says that you will get Istanbul back.

Dude seriously,he travelled half of Europe,stayed in various countries asking for asylum...and you concentrate on Greece? He was staying in Syria for years. He went to Russia,to Italy,to Greece,then Russia again,then left. I mean,come on.

And everywhere he went he was kicked out of.Greek diplomats were the only ones actually inviting him.

This obscure guy who is basically a nobody in Greece and was the only one accusing the GVG of "war crimes" in Bosnia without any evidence AT ALL. Leftist guy with an agenda who made allegations without any proof. Again though,you're derailing the thread with different stories.

Is Zhelyu Zelev also an obscure guy?And i am pretty sure.As far as GVG being involved in war crimes,I am sure they just went to Srebrenica for a walk.It has quite a nice landscape.That is probably why serb generals were thanking them and promising them help "liberating" Cyprus.

 

[Foinikas]

So because few idiots make fools of themselves,that justifies Greece breaking international law,with full support from NATO and EU?
By your logic Turkey would have every right to invade Greece next time some drunk idiots says that you will get Istanbul back.

Irridentism and theft of our national history and identity,had become official policy for them.

And everywhere he went he was kicked out of.Greek diplomats were the only ones actually inviting him.

Certain diplomats invited him because they saw a counter to Turkish threats,kind of like an ally. Or because they were just leftist. Either way,it was a fiasco. He was a hot potato he was getting kicked out of the Greek embassy too.

Zhelyu Zelev

I don't even know who that is.

As far as GVG being involved in war crimes,I am sure they just went to Srebrenica for a walk.It has quite a nice landscape.

Yes. There is absolutely no evidence,no proof at all of the GVG taking part in any kind of atrocity. The Serbs admit it as well and none of the accusers actually brought evidence. The only thing that was heard,were vague accusations with absolutely no basis and truth.

That is probably why serb generals were thanking them and promising them help "liberating" Cyprus.

Now you're making assumptions and imagining whatever. In the same way,I can say stuff like "Oh VMRO paid you to post on this forum,oh you are an agent,they promised you a new car".