RND: Erdogan becomes a danger to NATO

[hyperman]

Services? Turkey is more of a liabity right now.

Yeah thats why Stoltenberg keeps praising, Blinken thanks Turkey for mediation and foreign diplomats shuffle through Istanbul and Ankara on a regular basis from all over the world, b/c Turkey such a "liability", Greeks trying to speak BS into existence b/c of them being upset that Turkey's increasing influence and roles in several arenas, whether being a decisive role in Libya, and the rest of Africa. Its influence in Central Asia(currently working on facilitating Turkemenistan gas to the EU) via the Organization of Turkic States.

This is actually against the US government's wish,not just Russia's.

I'm more in the Mike Doran camp with regards to Syria policy, Obama in his desperate rush for results created more problems than he solved when he decided to bet bogged down with the PKK. The sooner the detachment from the PKK happens, the better. US foreign policy needs to realign with how things were through Syrian opposition, facilitated through the treaty partner in the region, not some non state actor with ties to Iran(which can flip back to the iranian camp at any time) that is deteriorating relations with a treaty ally the US has had since the korean war. Its these stupid special interest ethnic lobbies messing up US interests.

Russia's interests and US interests cannot be aligned. Whatever is a loss for Russia is a gain for the US. Russia deteriorating in Syria will possibly cause an exit from Syria which will likely cripple Iran's land corridor as well without Russian muscle propping it up.

Preventing Sweden and Finland from entering NATO

Minor dispute, will be sorted out eventually, no different from your blocking of the Republic of Macedonia and Albania, in search of concessions.

S-400s,then asking F-16s again,then saying they might buy Su-35 or Su-57 etc.

There are no plans to buy any russian junk, and the Senate should not spoil that with the catering to ethnic special interest lobbies, if sales of the Patriots took place anytime since the 90s as was requested and sold to other lesser allies like Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, this wouldn't even be in the conversation. Thankfully it was the Biden administration that proposed the sale of F-16s, this should improve relations and work as a confidence building measure.

Well if they're sacrificing too much,then maybe they should leave NATO?

Turkey isn't leaving NATO, if anything its role in NATO is about to get much more important with the resurgence of the Russians in their activities around the region, whether from the black sea, Caucasus, or Syria and Libya.

On the other hand, its Greece that needs to stop helping Russia in Libya in establishing a military presence there, and Supporting Russia and Iran's ally Assad.

best friends with Putin one day

Best friends dropping bombs from TB2s?

 

[fitpOsitive]

Well if they're sacrificing too much,then maybe they should leave NATO?

Turks believe in brotherhood with NATO. They feel more connected to Europe.

 

[tower9]

lmao, Greeks trying hella hard to get someone to tip the scales in their favor. Meanwhile the NATO secretary General thanking Turkey for facilitating the Ukraine Grain deal and serving as a mediator to the conflict, while also providing Ukraine with critical assets like the TB2 and TRLG-230 Laser guided missiles in countering Russia, as well as its influence over Crimean Tatars. Its role as a bridge for NATO into Central Asia(via its influence, in Kazakhastan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan and Afghanistan). Turkey's geostrategic positioning and position as a strong regional and influential middle power is an asset for NATO interests in the Middle East, Black Sea region and Central Asia. Not to mention Turkey's postion as an emerging energy hub for Non Russian hydrocarbons coming from Central Asia and the middle east. Logical people understand that Turkey is a counter balance to Russia and always has been as a middle power, and that it is in their interests to maintain such an asset. No one besides Bob Menendez, Daddy Macron and other clowns who have personal animosities towards Turks care, pragmatic and reasonable non emotional people aren't going to randomly decide to become antagonistic towards Turkey on your behalf and jeopardize/lose out on the benefits they receive from their relations with Turkey.

Quite rich of the Greeks to act like suddenly they are hardcore atlanticists and anti Russia, given their previous relationship with Russia from weapons sales(fun fact Greeks were trying to get the russians to upgrade their S-300s far after Turkey bought systems from Russia) to other sociological Russian soft ties, serving as a way to launder Russian money in the Greek economy and giving russian olygarchs close to putin schengen passports in exchange for money.

Turkey and Greece in the same alliance makes as much sense as Armenia and Azerbaijan as Allies.

 

[Foinikas]

Yeah thats why Stoltenberg keeps praising, Blinken thanks Turkey for mediation and foreign diplomats shuffle through Istanbul and Ankara on a regular basis from all over the world, b/c Turkey such a "liability", Greeks trying to speak BS into existence b/c of them being upset that Turkey's increasing influence and roles in several arenas, whether being a decisive role in Libya, and the rest of Africa. Its influence in Central Asia(currently working on facilitating Turkemenistan gas to the EU) via the Organization of Turkic States.

Stoltenberg would praise Turkey even if Erdogan bitchslapped him in the face. The guy's one of the most lukewarm NATO leaders in history. Turkey's screwing EU's plans for our own gas exploitation in the Aegean and Cyprus.
Come on,you're just a heavily pro-Turkish Pakistani,you don't see the bull we see here every day,having a clown talk "Athens is in our range" or "we'll come one night suddenly",going every day like "disarm the islands,don't buy new arms,don't do this don't do that"

Turks believe in brotherhood with NATO. They feel more connected to Europe.

Only Kemalist secular Turks. The rest are heavily anti-American,anti-NATO with a "restore the Ottoman Empire" kind of mindset.

 

[BHAN85]

The biggest danger to NATO is USA.

Türkiye is just a country that thinks firstly in themselves.

USA is who always try to burn whole Eurasia in a total war, since one decade at least.

 

[hyperman]

Stoltenberg would praise Turkey

As he Should Turkey facilitated a lot of things with regards to Ukraine, and Stoltenberg understands the importance of Turkey and its geopolitical weight.

Turkey's screwing EU's plans for our own gas exploitation

Not EU plans, Greek plans, those small little oil/gas droplets change nothing in significance. Its far more reasonable to expand Norwegian gas production to meet EU needs and fracking, rather than going for expensive offshore gas in disputed areas, causing needless problems. Not to mention imports via the land corridor from Turkey to Bulgaria. Better to explore other areas, and let Greece work out a deal like it did with Italy than get involved in BS by backing one side's maximalist position for small gains

Come on,you're just a heavily pro-Turkish Pakistani

Not Pakistani. lol, why you getting mad and attacking me. :O

"Athens is in our range" or "we'll come one night suddenly"

all noice, don't worry about it, I don't take the ramblings of Misoitakis, Kyriakos Velopoulos and the rest of Elliniki Lisi seriously either, its all domestic consumption and exaggerated.

disarm the islands

Well they weren't armed to begin with, they were demilitirized by treaties Greece signed, Misotakis wanted to act tough and militarized them along with the maximalist policies and lobbying for tensions via the greek lobby in the US and sucking up to Macron, then is shocked that tensions increased. lol
.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

 

[Mujahid Memon]

Gayreeks at it again

 

[Foinikas]

Not EU plans, Greek plans, those small little oil/gas droplets change nothing in significance. Its far more reasonable to expand Norwegian gas production to meet EU needs and fracking, rather than going for expensive offshore gas in disputed areas, causing needless problems. Not to mention imports via the land corridor from Turkey to Bulgaria. Better to explore other areas, and let Greece work out a deal like it did with Italy than get involved in BS by backing one side's maximalist position for small gains

The EU wants it and is happy about it. They want to be completely independent of Russian gas and oil. New deposits were found in Cyprus the other day. They're not something EU can ignore.

Whose side is maximalist? What's going on?

Not Pakistani. lol, why you getting mad and attacking me

Alright,then Turk. I'm not mad and I'm not attacking you,you're saying something and I'm replying.

 

[Foinikas]

Well they weren't armed to begin with, they were demilitirized by treaties Greece signed, Misotakis wanted to act tough and militarized them along with the maximalist policies and lobbying for tensions via the greek lobby in the US and sucking up to Macron, then is shocked that tensions increased. lol

You've got it completely wrong.

First of all,it wasn't Mitsotakis who "militarized" the islands. Second,the right to have garrisons on the islands had been accepted by Turkey as well in the 1930s. There is absolutely nothing illegal that Greece is doing. If you want,I can show you why.

Third,how on earth does Greece have "maximalist policies",that's the exact word used by Cavusoglu and Akar. This is the exact narration of the AKP government. Turkey has been arming like crazy the last 10 years,has been printing maps of "Mavi Vatan" and other expansionist doctrines,tells us to stop buying weapons to modernize our army,demands the Greek Cypriots don't drill in their own EEZ which is...ffs not on the Turkish Cypriot side,not even north close to the Turkish coasts,but southwest.

Fourth,Mitsotakis isn't sucking up to Macron. The French were the only ones who supported us in 2019-2020 when there were tensions and escalation. The Germans were pro-Turkish,the Italians slightly pro-Turkish,the Americans supported us a bit,the Dutch were neutral,the British in their world...only the French supported us. Because they were pissed off by the Turks too.

So it's only logical that we buy Rafale and FDI and have a mutual defence agreement.

 

[hyperman]

They're not something EU can ignore.

Of course they can, its droplets and ones with needless baggage. lol and it does nothing to change the amount of gas needed in any significant way, no the solution rests in expanding norwegian gas and fracking, as well as tapping into Turkmen gas supplies, Turkmenistan has the 4th-6th largest proven natural gas reserves on earth(only Russia, Iran and Qatar have significantly bigger reserves), but has no way of exporting it, b/c all the pipelines it currently has are pipelines from the soviet era which were all leading to Russia, and Russia has no need to import gas at a premium or even at market prices b/c it has its own, so it takes advantage of Turkmenistan and makes them sell the gas to Russia at bare minimum prices, then takes the gas and sells it to europe for double and triple the price it bought it from. If the Transcaspian pipeline can be built and connected to the TANAP pipeline, Turkmenistan can sell to the EU without Russian middlemen.

New deposits were found in Cyprus the other day.

Im sorry to say but in all likelyhood you won't become the Qatar of the eastern Mediterranean. lol

Alright,then Turk.

Not Turkish either, lol.

 

[hyperman]

it wasn't Mitsotakis who "militarized" the islands

Greece has treaty obligations from when the Italians transferred the Islands to Greece. If Turkey knew this EEZ game and other stuff would have happened in the early 1900s, it likely would have never agreed to how things were divided in the medeterranian.

how on earth does Greece have "maximalist policies"

When it signs martime agreement with Italy using one form of logic for delineation and then demands an enforcement of another with regards to Turkey. You know why you signed one with Italy? b/c you can't use the EU to tip the scales in your favor, and you can't use the Greek diaspora in America as an attack dog against Italy, so you act more reasonably. with Turkey you think you can get away with a more greedy outlook and use Macron and the EU, plus menendez as attack dogs against Turkey, but this is a miscalculation IMO, you rate these elements far too highly.

tells us to stop buying weapons to modernize our army

no one is telling you you can't buy, buy whatever you want, the issue is that Misotakis went to the senate and tried sabotaging things with his ethnic lobby links and said all sorts of smack talk, while he had a very different tone when he met with Erdogan, this is why Erdogan said he won't trust him the next time they speak and that he is "dead to him".

.

The Germans were pro-Turkish

The Germans are no pro Turkish, lol. Have you forgotten that this whole article is from a german publication?

the Italians slightly pro-Turkish

The Italians I would say are probably the most friendly(with the exception of Spain which is a very strong partner) to Turkey in terms of regional European powers, there are several cooperation agreements with Italy, and Italy is a partner with Turkey in Libya.

Because they were pissed off by the Turks too.

No its not French its Macron, François Hollande had good relations with Turkey. Macon was bitchslapped by Erdogan, on several occasions(He called NATO braindead, so Erdogan called him Braindead, after which he threw a hissy fit, he got cut down to size in Syria when he was trying to act big in Turkey's backyard, again cut down to size in Libya when Turkey destroyed Hafter's seige of Tripoli when he was backing him and sailed right through his onesided blockade escorted by Turkish warships, again tried to act big in Karabagh, was promptly humbled by Aliev), so in the face of all this humiliation the short man decides to get his revenge by harassing Turks living in France, and by using Greece in his beef by sailing a few ships in the Mediterranean and giving a few second hand planes to Greece.

 

[Foinikas]

Greece has treaty obligations from when the Italians transferred the Islands to Greece. If Turkey knew this EEZ game and other stuff would have happened in the early 1900s, it likely would have never agreed to how things were divided in the medeterranian.

When it signs martime agreement with Italy using one form of logic for delineation and then demands an enforcement of another with regards to Turkey. You know why you signed one with Italy? b/c you can't use the EU to tip the scales in your favor, and you can't use the Greek diaspora in America as an attack dog against Italy, so you act more reasonably. with Turkey you think you can get away with a more greedy outlook and use Macron and the EU, plus menendez as attack dogs against Turkey, but this is a miscalculation IMO, you rate these elements far too highly.

You missed an entire thread,we were trying to inform MMM-E once again,but he wouldn't listen.

@Akritas gave some good points on this and he can easily explain the situation to you,as he did with MMM-E.

The Germans are no pro Turkish, lol. Have you forgotten that this whole article is from a german publication?

I was talking about 2019-2020.

No its not French its Macron, François Hollande had good relations with Turkey. Macon was bitchslapped by Erdogan, on several occasions(He called NATO braindead, so Erdogan called him Braindead, after which he threw a hissy fit, he got cut down to size in Syria when he was trying to act big in Turkey's backyard, again cut down to size in Libya when Turkey destroyed Hafter's seige of Tripoli when he was backing him and sailed right through his onesided blockade escorted by Turkish warships, again tried to act big in Karabagh, was promptly humbled by Aliev), so in the face of all this humiliation the short man decides to get his revenge by harassing Turks living in France, and by using Greece in his beef by sailing a few ships in the Mediterranean and giving a few second hand planes to Greece.

The French had very little presence in Syria.

In Libya,Macron didn't "lose" or something by Turkey. If anything,French-made aircraft smashed the Turks in Al Watiya.

The House of Reprentatives government was supported by many,not just France. Just like the GNA was supported by many others.

And then what happened? Egypt got in the game and Turkey agreed to a ceasefire.

Now what Turkey did proves the thread's point: The Turkish frigate targeted the French one,that was enforcing the blockade. They targeted another NATO member's frigate that was there to enforce a mandate. THAT'S why Macron was pissed off. That and the fact that French companies are involved in Cyprus' EEZ exploration,but Erdogan threatens with war.

Another idiotic and laughable Turkish government (and pro-government media) phrase is that the "second-hand planes"...

The deal is about 12 slightly used Rafale F3R,which only stayed in France and only have few hours compared to other operational ones and 12 new F3R.

But Akar and the Turkish media often try to downplay this,by repeating the phrase "second-hand aircraft"...

 

[hyperman]

The French had very little presence in Syria.

Ask them what happened west of the euphrates. lol

The House of Reprentatives government was supported by many,not just France.

Hafter, its all Hafter. use the name, there is no "House of Representatives".

And then what happened?

The Siege of Tripoli ended. Hafter was pushed back.

The Turkish frigate targeted the French one,that was enforcing the blockade.

Its fake news, nothing happened, NATO took Turkey's side after the investigation, and the French threw a tantrum. lol

And what BS blockade? Who made EU world police? are they the UN? where is their official mandate to carry out piracy in the open seas? And how come nothing was being check in the red sea being transported to Egypt and then across land to Tobruk. Macron thought he could be cute with his "world policing operation" and was promptly shown his place. Turkey was fighting Russia and Wagner in Syria while Greeks and French were helping Russia establish a foothold on NATO's southern flank.

 

[Foinikas]

Ask them what happened west of the euphrates. lol

Dude,overall the French had little presence in Syria throughout the war. They were among the most unimportant players there.

Hafter, its all Hafter. use the name, there is no "House of Representatives".

That's what the Turkish government likes to say. The Tobruk government is led by the House of Representatives under Aguila Saleh. Haftar is the Marshall of the Libyan National Army. It's simple. You guys keep saying stuff like "Warlord Haftar",well it's like me saying "Warlord Akar. Erdogan is just a puppet,Akar's got the real power. He is the leader" etc.

The Siege of Tripoli ended. Hafter was pushed back.

Yes,the siege of Tripoli ended. Turkey saved the GNA for sure. But then what happened? The Egyptians threatened with to intervene and a ceasefire was decided.

Its fake news, nothing happened, NATO took Turkey's side after the investigation, and the French threw a tantrum. lol

And what BS blockade? Who made EU world police? are they the UN? where is their official mandate to carry out piracy in the open seas? And how come nothing was being check in the red sea being transported to Egypt and then across land to Tobruk. Macron thought he could be cute with his "world policing operation" and was promptly shown his place. Turkey was fighting Russia and Wagner in Syria while Greeks and French were helping Russia establish a foothold on NATO's southern flank.

Fake news? You targeted them three times. The AKP government has been lying their asses off,you expect me to take their word over the French? You guys compete with India on propaganda for internal consumption.

Ah so when it's Turkey helping Russia,that's another thing? That's being a good NATO member? You brought jihadis from Syria to Libya and you complain about Wagner.