Riot for Votes, the politicization of bloodshed.

[Iggy]

No need to cry. You can go to Nepal if you want to live in Hindu nation, i heard even visa is free there for indians

(no offence to nepalis)

Lo kahani me twist ho gaya :o

 

[Tshering22]

What you state is absolutely false. You should be ready to provide proof in support of such "self apparent truths".

He can't. Secularism doesn't have an edict on that.

Lo kahani me twist ho gaya :o

Kyon bhai? Uniform Civil Code se darte ho?

 

[Iggy]

Aren't you doing the same when others ask you why your types remain silent when majority or its sister communities get attacked?

Neither you nor other similar members say a word in those threads, but come forward very eagerly to blame the Hindu community just because they don't say anything.

Not a word of condemnation was done from your so-called secular unit when our temple at Bodh Gaya was attacked with bomb blasts.

Your messiahs of equality didn't bat an eyelid when NE Indians as a whole were being attacked in different parts of India after last years bloody carnage in Assam.

Funny how interesting it was to see the same vilified, demonized, hated and 'fascist' RSS come to aid our people.

Your equality is only based on one thing: convenience.

@Tshering22 find some post where I blame Hinduism when it was attacked.. I do not need to defend any twisted logic for the benefit of mine.. As for me, my country's comes first.. Its plain and simple..

Kyon bhai? Uniform Civil Code se darte ho?

All for it mate.. We are doing a benefit for those LLB students atleast ... He was asking me to go to Nepal if I wanted a Hindu nation.. I was wondering where I said that I wanted a nation on the basis of religion??

 

[Dillinger]

Sorry! I didn't mean to be offensive. It is only that your posts some times give me a whiff of the ye olde Saxon, and it often needs a goodish proportion of the brain power to reach the meat after wading through the flowers (pun intended).

Of course I agree with you on the good / bad mix and may also claim that Hinduism has done a far better job in altering the mix when compared to the others. What is galling is that the detractors would like to use the evils, now vanquished or largely gone, to tarnish Hinduism with a broad brush at the drop of a hat. So, discuss with any non-hindu and you find practically every second response embellished with sati and Dalits as if the central themes of every Hindu's life is not to strive for Moksha, but to torture a good number of Dalits daily and to gently prod his wife into Satiship.

Then where does the issue with secularism lie for you? With what the Congress and SP call secularism? I believe that has been laid bare in this thread itself.

Secularism does not mean that a neta must stand and proclaim that I am not Hindu, nor is a neta who proclaims that he is an ardent Hindu a communal demon. That is the abhorrent propaganda that permeates our national fabric. You wish to do some good? Fight those who will propagate that view. No man can ever be secular in his life, that would be impossible. "To be secular" means to be impartial and unbiased in matters of the state with regard to one's religious beliefs- that's all. The rest is detritus bandied about by a certain class of babus who need something or the other to cover their lack of political appetite for hard nosed governance.

India already is a Hindu nation, where do you think that idea of Sarva Dharma Sambhava (we weren't saying that all religions are allowed, we went one step further- ALL religions lead to heaven and are equally valid as long as one leads a good life) came from- without it where would our constitution stand? BUT it is not a nation only for Hindus nor may its governing laws be altered at the whims of those who wish to impose their beliefs on others- all of which is made possible because of what the people of this land have been like- for the good that resides in them. This does not take away the "bad" though- we have always been drawn to the superficial and so parties can pervert what secularism stands for and still convince the masses that they are secular, we have always lacked an appetite for mining details and grasping nuance- so a single temple becomes communal. Ergo, remove the "bad", keep the good. Lets see, Vajpayee Jee (RSS fellow) would rank far more secular than Rajiv Gandhi, believe it! Does that addle your mind, is Vajpayee jee then a liar? No, he simply understood that Hindutva itself has little to do with temples and more to do with the nation and its people. Confused? But how come, the BJP fought on the plank of the Ram temple. Yes, but not because a temple is more sacred than a mosque but because that temple is an aspiration of the people. The greatest disservice to his memory and to what the likes of Modi have been trying to do is what their so called supporters scream and bandy about- "oh the Muslims and the Christians better get ready to leave the country when he comes to power". You wish to call the leaders you support liars, then why did Vajpayee stand in the house and passionately declaim those who had called him communal (did he strike you as a dishonest person, as a politician simply throwing about words to cover his own a$$, I think not)- for the picture the people who claim to support him paint surely depicts him as communal. His disciple Modi would go on to demolish a hundred temples to facilitate highways. Do you see the compartmentalization? I see it and I do not see anything wrong with it. Place a man like Togadia or Owaisi in that mix though and everything goes to hell.


Lets ask all the people here, what was the first principle of the BJP? What was that principle that stands high-jacked by ever tom and harry "I am a baba/ I am a protector of the Hindus"? Integral Humanism- Deendayal Upadhyaya.

 

[Tshering22]

@Tshering22 find some post where I blame Hinduism when it was attacked.. I do not need to defend any twisted logic for the benefit of mine.. As for me, my country's comes first.. Its plain and simple..

No. It is just that I see you popping in and out of threads that have even the slightest hint of Hindu element involved to justify secularism but never see you around where they happen to be the victims to support equality and attacks against them...

So I just was wonder why is that..

You still haven't answered my question as to why you despise NDA.

All for it mate.. We are doing a benefit for those LLB students atleast ... He was asking me to go to Nepal if I wanted a Hindu nation.. I was wondering where I said that I wanted a nation on the basis of religion??

Then you do know which government first proposed a Uniform Civil Code, don't you?

 

[dray]

Oh what a great insight...let's go to BJP which is ALL AND ALL communal politics.

If we accept that every major party is communal and has hands soaked in blood, then other factors like corruption, policy making, performance, development, economic growth, etc become the differentiating factors.

And if you think I am a blind Modi fan; then I am not. I have voted for congress in 2009, but I can't do it this time, I simply can't. And third front will be an assimilation of 20 regional thugs lead by probably Mulayam or Mayavati, you give me a better option, I am ready to accept.

 

[Iggy]

Then you do know which government first proposed a Uniform Civil Code, don't you?

Uniform Civil Code was an election mandate of last NDA government along with many other things which they conveniently forgot after election.. I do not think it will be implemented this time also..

 

[Tshering22]

If we accept that every major party is communal and has hands soaked in blood, then other factors like corruption, policy making, performance, development, economic growth, etc become the differentiating factors.

And if you think I am a blind Modi fan; then I am not. I have voted for congress in 2009, but I can't do it this time, I simply can't. And third front will be an assimilation of 20 regional thugs lead by probably Mulayam or Mayavati, you give me a better option, I am ready to accept.

That's what they don't understand. They see saffron shade everywhere and Hindus everywhere even when non-Hindus are asking them proof.

I voted for NDA government right from Vajpayee government's time, but never knew them before (I wasn't old enough before that). It was a gamble and boy! did it pay off as the beginning of supporting a truly nationalist party. Vajpayee ji changed my outlook totally.

 

[Iggy]

No. It is just that I see you popping in and out of threads that have even the slightest hint of Hindu element involved to justify secularism but never see you around where they happen to be the victims to support equality and attacks against them...

So I just was wonder why is that..

You still haven't answered my question as to why you despise NDA.

Talking against Ram Sena, Bajrangdal and Modi does not make me a hater of Hinduism.. I am against making this a nation based on religion what ever it may be.. I like the secular credentials of this country.. I talked against Modi in public and I despise organisations like Ram Sena and Bajrangdal.. I made it clear my despise to organisations like PDP and NDF along with the evangelical organisations working in India.. Now you will blame me playing victim card.. So you can decide whatever you want about me.. I do love the secular nature of this country and it will remain so.

 

[Tshering22]

Uniform Civil Code was an election mandate of last NDA government along with many other things which they conveniently forgot after election.. I do not think it will be implemented this time also..

No. It was the current regime that opposed it in opposition stating that 'Muslims and Christians are vulnerable'.

How the heck does a minority become vulnerable when all are going to be put on the same equal level?

I still remember the debate in the parliament and it was the then opposition that was opposing it calling it 'anti-minority' (in short trying to save their votebank).

Can you tell me which part of UCC was 'forgotten' when the opposition didn't even let them implement it?

The mullahs and missionaries have vested interests and Congress helps them in achieving them. So they cite the 'communal doomsday' and keep out a ruling party that is actually doing good for the country.

Even the military is frustrated with this pathetic regime of 'moderates'.

That's why the crowd turnout of ex-military men from across the country was so high in Rewari.

Not because they were paid to come.

I am from a military family mate. The deaths of soldiers by beheading and government doing NOTHING about it, that too during peace times when no war is happening; it is unthinkable.

Talking against Ram Sena, Bajrangdal and Modi does not make me a hater of Hinduism.. I am against making this a nation based on religion what ever it may be.. I like the secular credentials of this country.. I talked against Modi in public and I despise organisations like Ram Sena and Bajrangdal.. I made it clear my despise to organisations like PDP and NDF along with the evangelical organisations working in India.. Now you will blame me playing victim card.. So you can decide whatever you want about me.. I do love the secular nature of this country and it will remain so.

Aha! So you put him in the same pedestal as them. When I clearly asked you why you despise him, you had no answer. When I asked his religion, you said not to get personal.

Do you even know how many non-Hindus have voted for him? Seriously dude, get out of the NDTV, IBN-7 cr@p and go and see for yourself. I sincerely, recommend you to see it with your eyes about what all things you're holding against him.

 

[Iggy]

No. It was the current regime that opposed it in opposition stating that 'Muslims and Christians are vulnerable'.

How the heck does a minority become vulnerable when all are going to be put on the same equal level?

I still remember the debate in the parliament and it was the then opposition that was opposing it calling it 'anti-minority' (in short trying to save their votebank).

Can you tell me which part of UCC was 'forgotten' when the opposition didn't even let them implement it?

What makes you think they wont face opposition this time also? It will be a miracle if UCC comes into effect..

The mullahs and missionaries have vested interests and Congress helps them in achieving them. So they cite the 'communal doomsday' and keep out a ruling party that is actually doing good for the country.

No congress is making it as a vested interest of mullah's and missionaries to gain more votes..

I am from a military family mate. The deaths of soldiers by beheading and government doing NOTHING about it, that too during peace times when no war is happening; it is unthinkable.

Nothing pisses me off mate when our soldiers die in vein and government behaving like an irresponsible a$$holes..

 

[Iggy]

Aha! So you put him in the same pedestal as them. When I clearly asked you why you despise him, you had no answer. When I asked his religion, you said not to get personal.

Do you even know how many non-Hindus have voted for him? Seriously dude, get out of the NDTV, IBN-7 cr@p and go and see for yourself. I sincerely, recommend you to see it with your eyes about what all things you're holding against him.

I have no idea how many more times I need to explain it to you?? Where do you find me putting Modi in the same league with Ram Sena and Bajrangdal?? These are the three things which I speak against and you people think I am anti Hindu..

 

[Dillinger]

@Tshering22 @seiko is not equating Modi with the Bajrandal or Togadia. What he is saying is that he criticizes all of them, if I criticize your point of view as well as Owaisi in the same breath it does not mean that I am equating you to him. The point he is trying to get across is that based upon the inherent merits and demerits he forms an opinion on leaders, parties and organisations. He has criticized the orthodox elements within his own community plenty.

The point is to grasp nuance, absolutist thoughts will always kill nuance and intelligence. IF I disagree with Rajnath Singh's usual banter that does not mean that I do not support the economic policy that his fellow party member Modi is propagating in his state. Come on yaara, you of all people can grasp this nuance.

 

[kurup]

So BJP wasn;t there buddy?
Obviously for the pot....such high quality stuff is rare man. I'm sure I'll find 'true', 'untrue' seculars, BJP seculars etc. once I roll it up

One BJP leader is booked for hate speech during the mahapanchayat .

Anybody who have read your posts will understand that the pot that you smoke is on a class ahead of anything we have ....

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Not Congressi/SP form of secularism. The REAL secularism as it is followed in other countries.



He's talking about India's Constitution who instead of abiding sincerely, people worship and do none of what is actually said in it.



He's talking about India's Constitution who instead of abiding sincerely, people worship and do none of what is actually said in it.

hey buddy...if you're saying we need secularism of the sort that's in france, I agree. But if you're telling me that Modiji or his brigade is the one that's bringing it in- welll...you can take some of the pot that @kurup has been smoking today...very good quality

One BJP leader is booked for hate speech during the mahapanchayat .

Anybody who have read your posts will understand that the pot that you smoke is on a class ahead of anything we have ....

Yeah but it's not there in YOUR post is what I was saying. You're attacking SP and Congress (fair enough) accusing them of 'vote bank' politics, fact is BJP doing the exact same thing. According to @Marxist it isn't vote bank politics but an effort to save 'mothers and daughters' of hindus out of their noble intentions

@Tshering22 @seiko is not equating Modi with the Bajrandal or Togadia. What he is saying is that he criticizes all of them, if I criticize your point of view as well as Owaisi in the same breath it does not mean that I am equating you to him. The point he is trying to get across is that based upon the inherent merits and demerits he forms an opinion on leaders, parties and organisations. He has criticized the orthodox elements within his own community plenty.

The point is to grasp nuance, absolutist thoughts will always kill nuance and intelligence. IF I disagree with Rajnath Singh's usual banter that does not mean that I do not support the economic policy that his fellow part member Modi is propagating in his state. Come on yaara, you of all people can grasp this nuance.

But I'm equating him with Bajrang Dal and Togadia

@Tshering22 @seiko is not equating Modi with the Bajrandal or Togadia. What he is saying is that he criticizes all of them, if I criticize your point of view as well as Owaisi in the same breath it does not mean that I am equating you to him. The point he is trying to get across is that based upon the inherent merits and demerits he forms an opinion on leaders, parties and organisations. He has criticized the orthodox elements within his own community plenty.

The point is to grasp nuance, absolutist thoughts will always kill nuance and intelligence. IF I disagree with Rajnath Singh's usual banter that does not mean that I do not support the economic policy that his fellow part member Modi is propagating in his state. Come on yaara, you of all people can grasp this nuance.

But I'm equating him with Bajrang Dal and Togadia