R Wing
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Thank you.
People need to understand that the fears of subjugation that created the vision back then are playing out right now.
Revolution for Pakistan
- Thread starter Sayfullah
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Thank you.
People need to understand that the fears of subjugation that created the vision back then are playing out right now.
American Pakistani
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Read again if you can comprehend.
We can surely live with kafirs but not with gau rss vhp bjp or tlp lej ttp bla terrorists.
PAKISTANFOREVER
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We need a NATIONALISTIC and CORRUPTION FREE revolution. Then and ONLY then will Pakistan's problems be solved.
American Pakistani
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History aur context sub batana zaroori hai. Aakhir 220 million mein kaafi stunted hein unfortunately jo sirf ttp, tlp, lej, bla ya India k cannon fodder k liye peda huay hen.
Maula Jatt
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Every single mainstream sect was against Pakistan creation
Maula Jatt
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Islamists banned condam ads and do not believe in family planning
Some even call it haram
El Sidd
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How and who extended this invite to Indian Muslims?
The charter of the Muslim league and Pakistan movement is not matter of sense, it's a matter of documented history.
PAKISTANFOREVER
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If there was nationalism and patriotism in Pakistan then we would have a significant number of our population striving for excellence in ALL fields. This would mean more educated and intelligent people. More educated and intelligent people means lower birth rates and hence population reduction.
Trango Towers
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We do need a revolution in which all politicians judges lawyers police and molvis need hanging.
Now that's a revolution
Now that's a revolution
On the basis of Islam.. it's crap otherwise Pakistan would never fall apart.
Nationalism.. again crap fed to it's citizens to accept poverty to help the nations elites live healthy lives
What we need is inclusivity regardless of gender race sect religion province etc
Means we need to give taxes, stop corruption, cut down on extra expenses, and start spending on socially lifting the poor and middle class.
Nationalism.. again crap fed to it's citizens to accept poverty to help the nations elites live healthy lives
What we need is inclusivity regardless of gender race sect religion province etc
Means we need to give taxes, stop corruption, cut down on extra expenses, and start spending on socially lifting the poor and middle class.
EternalMortal
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Here's my view
Is Islam required for prosperity? NO. To be prosperous you just need to crack down on corruption AND have smart policies. It's undeniable that Allah (Swt) has granted prosperity to kaffir nations as well, but only b/c they have done better than us in these 2 things. However, you also DON'T need liberalism & secularism to be prosperous. There's plenty of secular & liberal countries that are poor.
The gulf arabs didn't become rich by being liberal or secular. They were simply less corrupt & had smarter economic policies than us. Even if they have oil, it's not enough. You still need good policy to exploit it. Other countries also have oil but they're not rich.
Western countries didn't get rich due to liberalism or secularism. Secularism is just separation of state & clergy. This doesn't mean they got rid of all christian laws. Until recently, these western countries had many christian principles enshrined in law i.e. ban on homosexuality. It all depends on how religious the ppl are. If they become less religious then they'll get rid of these laws. Of course, in a secular country it's much easier to change society to become unreligious.
The way these western countries got rich was 1st they colonized & used the resources of the Americas to build up power. They had no Muslim competition here so they did this unchallenged. Although, it's a myth that Ottomans declined b/c they forbade science, for multiple factors, they & others were going through a period of decline as all empires do. Europeans took advantage of this period to then colonize & exploit us. This further increased the gap. After decolonization, we're now in a perpetual cycle of trying to get rid of the corrupt secular elite left behind that is used continue our exploitation & the reactionary mullahs that have emerged to counter them. Then there's the incompetency & ignorance that has resulted b/c of the corruption. We have to do this while fending off instability caused by either the west or our own rulers (often supported & exacerbated by west).
To the dude stanning Norway, it wasn't always this rich. Until it found oil, it was one of the poorer european countries. Just like the arabs, they had good policies to exploit the oil. They also took advantage of: being in proximity to rich european countries, the fact that their country is in a stable region & they have no real foreign threat.
India & bangladesh only caught up & surpassed us economically in the past few yrs so they're not good example either. Even with all our problems in the past 40 yrs they're still only barely ahead of us.
So if it doesn't matter if you're religious or secular then what should Pakistan do? As muslims we believe Islam is the Truth. We created this country so that Muslims could be safe & could create a society based on Islamic principles. It's this common desire that holds the different ethnicities & cultures together. So the answer is simple: Pakistan should remain an islamic state. Sure there are nonmuslim minorities but even nonmuslims are protected under islamic law. It's secularist elite who engage in racism & broke Pakistan in 1971 & they're the ones engaged in separatism today. Secularism also breeds majoritarianism. We can all see what's happening to minorities in "secular" & "liberal" countries especially india & france.
We can't base our nationalism off of Indus valley civ. Pak secularists just need to stfu and take the L. No one has identified as an Indus valley person for thousands of years. You didn't even know it existed until a 100 yrs ago. You don't know its language nor its culture nor their belief system nor their genetics. What exactly do u have in common with them? Sure, we can claim & promote this heritage to increase our soft power but it's super cringe to try & use that as basis for nationalism.
Which Islam should Pakistan follow? Again, this is not hard. There have ALWAYS been disagreements b/w ulema. No one back in the day asked "what islam should the state follow". Sometimes the state chose one group to represent it but still allowed the others to function as other legitimate options. Historically, ulema have functioned like lawyers, each with their own specialty & also participating in the legal system as qadis. We could even turn ulema into a professional career class like doctors. You can have your local family maulvi (like a fam doctor) & specialists (from all schools thought) to refer to. Ulema council can self-regulate like medical councils do. This way state can regulate but also allow reasonable freedom for criticism.
Internet akhs also need to stfu about Pakistani nationalism. Our nationalism is based on an islamic identity. How is this haram? B/c we put our interests above others? If u were in the 12th century, would you have told salahuddin to sacrifice the interests of his state b/c it would harm muslims in other states? Would you have called him a nationalist as well if he refused to do so? If no, then why is it wrong for an islamic country like Pakistan to focus on its interests 1st? Why don't u tell other muslims to sacrifice their interests for us? Why is the well being of 200 million muslims of Pakistan less important? Are we lesser muslims?
For e.g., why should we break our alliance with China for uyghurs? Sure, if china is doing a genocide, we don't support it but at the end of the day we have no choice but to turn to china right now. What's more important here: prevent genocide of 100s of millions of muslims in south asia by hindutva or starting a conflict with china (thereby weakening muslims even more & therefore making us even more susceptible to genocide)? We can help them by other ways anyway and if they weren't too busy sucking american d*ck they could have just asked us to intercede on their behalf (which we have done before as well).
Just like during salahuddin's time, there are now multiple competing Muslim states & just like then only one needs to become powerful. The 2 with the most potential are Pakistan & Indonesia since they're the 2 largest countries. Of these, only Pak was made in the name of Islam & has the historical clout to back itself up. Therefore, the ummah should focus on making Pakistan the Muslim superpower. If Pak interests collide with other muslim countries, we should have no hesitation in fulfilling our needs at their expense. Ummah should think long term instead of short term benefit. And they can join Pakistani federation if they want. No one's stopping them.
Is Islam required for prosperity? NO. To be prosperous you just need to crack down on corruption AND have smart policies. It's undeniable that Allah (Swt) has granted prosperity to kaffir nations as well, but only b/c they have done better than us in these 2 things. However, you also DON'T need liberalism & secularism to be prosperous. There's plenty of secular & liberal countries that are poor.
The gulf arabs didn't become rich by being liberal or secular. They were simply less corrupt & had smarter economic policies than us. Even if they have oil, it's not enough. You still need good policy to exploit it. Other countries also have oil but they're not rich.
Western countries didn't get rich due to liberalism or secularism. Secularism is just separation of state & clergy. This doesn't mean they got rid of all christian laws. Until recently, these western countries had many christian principles enshrined in law i.e. ban on homosexuality. It all depends on how religious the ppl are. If they become less religious then they'll get rid of these laws. Of course, in a secular country it's much easier to change society to become unreligious.
The way these western countries got rich was 1st they colonized & used the resources of the Americas to build up power. They had no Muslim competition here so they did this unchallenged. Although, it's a myth that Ottomans declined b/c they forbade science, for multiple factors, they & others were going through a period of decline as all empires do. Europeans took advantage of this period to then colonize & exploit us. This further increased the gap. After decolonization, we're now in a perpetual cycle of trying to get rid of the corrupt secular elite left behind that is used continue our exploitation & the reactionary mullahs that have emerged to counter them. Then there's the incompetency & ignorance that has resulted b/c of the corruption. We have to do this while fending off instability caused by either the west or our own rulers (often supported & exacerbated by west).
To the dude stanning Norway, it wasn't always this rich. Until it found oil, it was one of the poorer european countries. Just like the arabs, they had good policies to exploit the oil. They also took advantage of: being in proximity to rich european countries, the fact that their country is in a stable region & they have no real foreign threat.
India & bangladesh only caught up & surpassed us economically in the past few yrs so they're not good example either. Even with all our problems in the past 40 yrs they're still only barely ahead of us.
So if it doesn't matter if you're religious or secular then what should Pakistan do? As muslims we believe Islam is the Truth. We created this country so that Muslims could be safe & could create a society based on Islamic principles. It's this common desire that holds the different ethnicities & cultures together. So the answer is simple: Pakistan should remain an islamic state. Sure there are nonmuslim minorities but even nonmuslims are protected under islamic law. It's secularist elite who engage in racism & broke Pakistan in 1971 & they're the ones engaged in separatism today. Secularism also breeds majoritarianism. We can all see what's happening to minorities in "secular" & "liberal" countries especially india & france.
We can't base our nationalism off of Indus valley civ. Pak secularists just need to stfu and take the L. No one has identified as an Indus valley person for thousands of years. You didn't even know it existed until a 100 yrs ago. You don't know its language nor its culture nor their belief system nor their genetics. What exactly do u have in common with them? Sure, we can claim & promote this heritage to increase our soft power but it's super cringe to try & use that as basis for nationalism.
Which Islam should Pakistan follow? Again, this is not hard. There have ALWAYS been disagreements b/w ulema. No one back in the day asked "what islam should the state follow". Sometimes the state chose one group to represent it but still allowed the others to function as other legitimate options. Historically, ulema have functioned like lawyers, each with their own specialty & also participating in the legal system as qadis. We could even turn ulema into a professional career class like doctors. You can have your local family maulvi (like a fam doctor) & specialists (from all schools thought) to refer to. Ulema council can self-regulate like medical councils do. This way state can regulate but also allow reasonable freedom for criticism.
Internet akhs also need to stfu about Pakistani nationalism. Our nationalism is based on an islamic identity. How is this haram? B/c we put our interests above others? If u were in the 12th century, would you have told salahuddin to sacrifice the interests of his state b/c it would harm muslims in other states? Would you have called him a nationalist as well if he refused to do so? If no, then why is it wrong for an islamic country like Pakistan to focus on its interests 1st? Why don't u tell other muslims to sacrifice their interests for us? Why is the well being of 200 million muslims of Pakistan less important? Are we lesser muslims?
For e.g., why should we break our alliance with China for uyghurs? Sure, if china is doing a genocide, we don't support it but at the end of the day we have no choice but to turn to china right now. What's more important here: prevent genocide of 100s of millions of muslims in south asia by hindutva or starting a conflict with china (thereby weakening muslims even more & therefore making us even more susceptible to genocide)? We can help them by other ways anyway and if they weren't too busy sucking american d*ck they could have just asked us to intercede on their behalf (which we have done before as well).
Just like during salahuddin's time, there are now multiple competing Muslim states & just like then only one needs to become powerful. The 2 with the most potential are Pakistan & Indonesia since they're the 2 largest countries. Of these, only Pak was made in the name of Islam & has the historical clout to back itself up. Therefore, the ummah should focus on making Pakistan the Muslim superpower. If Pak interests collide with other muslim countries, we should have no hesitation in fulfilling our needs at their expense. Ummah should think long term instead of short term benefit. And they can join Pakistani federation if they want. No one's stopping them.
Last edited:
PAKISTANFOREVER
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There is hardly ANY nationalism OR patriotism in Pakistan. IF there was there would be a LOT LESS poverty and MUCH MORE prosperity in Pakistan. The corrupt Mullahs in Pakistan enable the elites to live luxurious lives while telling the masses that their poverty is due to divine reasons and that their reward will be given in the hearafter. That demoralizes the masses and keeps them in perpetual poverty.
Sayfullah
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Lol
Jubayr ibn Mut’im reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “He is not one of us who calls to tribalism. He is not one of us who fights for the sake of tribalism. He is not one of us who dies following the way of tribalism.”
Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 5121
It was narrated that Jundab bin 'Abdullah said:
"The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'Whoever fights for a cause that is not clear, advocating tribalism, getting angry for the sake of tribalism, then he has died a death of Jahiliyyah.'"
Sunan an-Nasa'i 4115
PAKISTANFOREVER
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I'm not asking to be tribal. Pakistan is made up of many tribes. I'm ACTUALLY talking about the tribes of Pakistan coming together for the betterment of the nation. The excuse you are using above is the SAME excuse used by corrupt Mullahs since the 1970s to make Pakistanis cannon fodder for non-Pakistani Muslims. Non-Pakistani Muslims couldn't give a damn about Pakistan, Pakistanis or Kashmiris, so we Pakistanis should not give a damn about them.
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