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Revived: plan to give access to bases to US

No you are not, you have it with Oman and few counties I believe. You were even requesting an Air Force base in Kazakhstan or tajikistan- I forget
In this case India is the bigger player and thus can extract more agreeable terms. And it is Tajikistan where the IAF does have a base (Farkhor Air Base), this is where Ahmad Shah Massoud was treated after an assassination attempt was made on him.

Besides you get acess to ours too, it's a two way street.
Again, this directly benefits the US military far more than the Indian military who rarely engage in out of area operations, conversely the US military engages in such activity literally daily. The few times India does require such foreign logistics support India sources this themselves (berthing rights in Oman, refuelling from friendly ports etc) and don't lean on the US enough to justify the LSA.


As India's needs for foreign logistical support grow so will their building of such bases abroad and sourcing requisite support INDEPENDENTLY. India has military outposts in the Maldives, Mauritius, Madagascar and probably other places this all whilst the need for such foreign outposts is modest. When India's military requires more it will get more. The US doesn't need to be involved.

You have no problems with buying our military assets that you will in war. If
Indeed and this is because it directly benefits India by having access to the latest weaponry/systems. I'm yet to be sold on the notion the LSA benefits India more than it costs in terms of sovereignty breaches.
 
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And? what does that have to do with a logistical agreement. You have no problems with buying our military assets that you will in war. If we are reliable there, why not reliable here. Besides you get acess to ours too, it's a two way street.

We are buying your defense equipment because you are selling it to us . We are paying for the goods - we are not getting it free . You need a market - we need goods .

and with US there can never be anything Free . Let me be little dramatic - US will extract pound of flesh for every penny loaned .


Everything else @Abingdonboy has elaborated very well !
 
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The title is misleading.... such things of repair and refuelling is going on for long time.

We need to access each other's base. India needs access to Guam and US needs access to Ladhakh.

BUT OUR GAIN SEEMS LESS. :(

SO NO.
 
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Logistical clearly but which side is pushing for this? Which side will it benefit more? The retd ACM himself pointed out this deal would be of little utility to the IAF, perhaps a little more to the IN but alas that is still of little utility.


India does not engage in the same kind of expeditionary military operations as the US and where it does it has had little issue sourcing the requisite supplies and logistics.


Either way why should India allow its soil to to be used for the foreign expeditionary military missions of another nation?


And? This is a one off example, India has berthing rights of its own in Oman and their own fleet of FRS so it can go it alone if necessary.


The crux of the matter is Indians are very very touchy on issues of sovenrirgtvy and whilst the LSA is, on the surface, just logistics sharing agreement it is just the tip of the iceberg. How else does the US leverage itself into its sovereignty breaching positions across the world? Bit by bit, subtle erosion. The LSA today and permeant US bases in the Indian mainland and down in the A&N islands tomorrow.

It is clear the LSA by nature favours the more expeditionary military and thus the US has far more to gain from this agreement than India.

It just isn't going to happen, the BJP opposed this when in opposition, if they proposed such a thing now there would be, justifiable, uproar from the now opposition as well as the Left parties. CISMOA wasn't signed and it has not really hurt India, LSA hasn't been signed and I haven't once heard an Indian official complain about not sourcing logistics abroad.

1. It is not about who benefits more, it is about do you benefit too. By your argument if Oman says come on down and use our ports, they should reconsider. Because surely you have bigger naval assets than them. Today it may be limited in benefit, but do you see that diminishing as India rises?

2. Again, what india does today; does not mean it is not going require tomorrow. You have a blue water navy aspiration or is that going away? Using your argument, India does not intend to attack any country, then why have all these military assets and missiles that have extended ranges way beyond what you need? It's like a hedge/ planning, right.

3. A. India has allowed bases that in past with the russians B. India offered and has allowed us use its bases during the Afghan campaign (I think it's public knowledge) C. You like Turkey a NATO partner that too or anyone else, have complete rights to refuse on a case by case basis .

So where is the beef? Most of this just natural patrolling of international waters.

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The crux of the matter is Indians are very very touchy on issues of sovenrirgtvy and whilst the LSA is, on the surface, just logistics sharing agreement it is just the tip of the iceberg. How else does the US leverage itself into its sovereignty breaching positions across the world? Bit by bit, subtle erosion. The LSA today and permeant US bases in the Indian mainland and down in the A&N islands tomorrow.

It is clear the LSA by nature favours the more expeditionary military and thus the US has far more to gain from this agreement than India.

This part is baffling and frankly absurd. It sounds like the typical conspiracists we read here and beneath what I expect from a poster like you.

"We breach sovereignty bit by bit"- with whom?

"The LSA today, permanent bases tomorrow"- Did you just pull that out from nowhere? Again, very conspiratorial without any evidence/ historical perspective to back it up

Look, you have the right to be against it because paranoia makes you believe so or in other's case they just hate the U.S. and I get that . I just wanted to clarify that none of the reasons you have given have any merit to it.

We are buying your defense equipment because you are selling it to us . We are paying for the goods - we are not getting it free . You need a market - we need goods .

and with US there can never be anything Free . Let me be little dramatic - US will extract pound of flesh for every penny loaned .


Everything else @Abingdonboy has elaborated very well !

LOL I can picture you among those groups chanting " Death to USA" . But please sell me your military assets.

Btw, the logistical agreement is not free. Both parties pay for the services rendered. If we refuel 20 times, we pay you for the service.

Back to my point. So you are basing your opinion on this logistic agreement on emotional reaction not on evidence.
 
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In Hindi there is saying "dur raho lakin sukhi raho" Stay happy but stay away!!
 
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1. It is not about who benefits more, it is about do you benefit too. By your argument if Oman says come on down and use our ports, they should reconsider. Because surely you have bigger naval assets than them. Today it may be limited in benefit, but do you see that diminishing as India rises? .

off course . the deal that overtly favors US as against us is not acceptable to us . Will US agree to a deal that will overtly favor India ? I do not think so ...

2. Again, what india does today; does not mean it is not going require tomorrow. You have a blue water navy aspiration or is that going away? Using your argument, India does not intend to attack any country, then why have all these military assets and missiles that have extended ranges way beyond what you need? It's like a hedge/ planning, right. .[/QUOTE]

Indeed India has no aspirations to be a Global policeman or Global bully . and yes all India's defence architecture in defensive - we have no intentions to attack any country unlike US .


3. A. India has allowed bases that in past with the russians B. India offered and has allowed us use its bases during the Afghan campaign (I think it's public knowledge) C. You like Turkey a NATO partner that too or anyone else, have complete rights to refuse on a case by case basis . .[/QUOTE]

Well Pakistan has also right to refuse . right ? can they refuse today ...? well technically Yes ...but you have shut their mouths with economic aid ..and that's what we fear ...US has enough tricks up its sleeves to arm-twist countries to follow its dictat.[/QUOTE]


why is US not vacating Guantanamo Bay despite persistent demands from cuba ???
 
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In Hindi there is saying "dur raho lakin sukhi raho" Stay happy but stay away!!

What do they say in Hindi about " please help me with stopping Pakistan's terrorism, and provide us with satellite intelligence on intercepts and future threats to my country".

Should we reply back with "dur raho lakin sukhi raho" - Aur hamko mat pucho"?
 
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1. It is not about who benefits more, it is about do you benefit too.
Of course it is. In any transaction both sides are looking to look after their now interests and if one side is clearly gaining more than the other can we reasonably expect the deal to progress? I think not.

Today it may be limited in benefit, but do you see that diminishing as India rises?

2. Again, what india does today; does not mean it is not going require tomorrow. You have a blue water navy aspiration or is that going away? Using your argument, India does not intend to attack any country, then why have all these military assets and missiles that have extended ranges way beyond what you need? It's like a hedge/ planning, right.
It is true India is going to need more logistics support as it grows more aspirational and the military extends its reach but, like I have said, to meet this need in the future can (and will ) be done through sourcing such support independently of any other nation especially the US.

Just as the US has set up its chain of outposts,bases and friendly ports as has Russia in the past, China is attempting to now so shall India when the time comes. India doesn't want to be in the US's shadow and will develop its capabilities on its own and for itself.

You like Turkey a NATO partner that too or anyone else, have complete rights to refuse on a case by case basis .
Is India a member of NATO or even a major non-NATO ally? Comparing Turkey to India is a, frankly, absurd parallel to make sir.

3. A. India has allowed bases that in past with the russians B. India offered and has allowed us use its bases during the Afghan campaign (I think it's public knowledge) C.
Things can be done on a case to case basis where it suits India's national interests but India isn't just going to give carte blanche to the US military by signing LSA, CISMOA and any number of other agreements with the US.

The key thing to note is that today there is zero foreign military presence in India because India is able to stand on its own two feet.


This part is baffling and frankly absurd. It sounds like the typical conspiracists we read here and beneath what I expect from a poster like you.

"We breach sovereignty bit by bit"- with whom?

"The LSA today, permanent bases tomorrow"- Did you just pull that out from nowhere? Again, very conspiratorial without any evidence/ historical perspective to back it up

Look, you have the right to be against it because paranoia makes you believe so or in other's case they just hate the U.S. and I get that . I just wanted to clarify that none of the reasons you have given have any merit to it.
Of course it can sound like a conspiracy theorist's ramblings but I don't think I said anything illogical. The LSA opens the door to further building on sovereignty infringing actions further down the line, this much can't be denied.

I'm not talking specific incidents when I say "LSA today, permeant base tomorrow" but it is only natural that the US would try and extract the most benefits from India to meet its own national interests and that, one can assume, would involve military installations in India. The LSA is but a subtle nudge in that direction and I for one wouldn't like to see such an agreement to be made. The US is known to be an expert at serving its interests so it is only natural that one looks at any moves, even ones supposedly as benign as the LSA, with a high degree of scepticism.

Perhaps this isn't part of some grand strategy to undermine India's national sovereignty (although there are plenty of examples of this if one looks around) but, as they say, "the road to hell is paved with good intention" .
 
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[QUOTE

LOL I can picture you among those groups chanting " Death to USA" . But please sell me your military assets.

Btw, the logistical agreement is not free. Both parties pay for the services rendered. If we refuel 20 times, we pay you for the service.

Back to my point. So you are basing your opinion on this logistic agreement on emotional reaction not on evidence.[/QUOTE]


You have lot of experience in this regard . Thanks to nosing around by your country that you had these experiences .

No . I am not a person who will chant Death to USA ....but yes I have deep dislike towards policies of your country .

and we do not beg for arms supplies . Arms supplies are done on mutual basis . You are not doing favor to us by selling arms .

Your country runs on War business !!!
 
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off course . the deal that overtly favors US as against us is not acceptable to us . Will US agree to a deal that will overtly favor India ? I do not think so ...

2. Again, what india does today; does not mean it is not going require tomorrow. You have a blue water navy aspiration or is that going away? Using your argument, India does not intend to attack any country, then why have all these military assets and missiles that have extended ranges way beyond what you need? It's like a hedge/ planning, right. .

Indeed India has no aspirations to be a Global policeman or Global bully . and yes all India's defence architecture in defensive - we have no intentions to attack any country unlike US .


3. A. India has allowed bases that in past with the russians B. India offered and has allowed us use its bases during the Afghan campaign (I think it's public knowledge) C. You like Turkey a NATO partner that too or anyone else, have complete rights to refuse on a case by case basis . .[/QUOTE]

Well Pakistan has also right to refuse . right ? can they refuse today ...? well technically Yes ...but you have shut their mouths with economic aid ..and that's what we fear ...US has enough tricks up its sleeves to arm-twist countries to follow its dictat.[/QUOTE]


why is US not vacating Guantanamo Bay despite persistent demands from cuba ???[/QUOTE]

Look, I won't win against a creative mind like yours. But did you just compare yourself with Pakistan and their situation? ;)
 
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What do they say in Hindi about " please help me with stopping Pakistan's terrorism, and provide us with satellite intelligence on intercepts and future threats to my country".

Should we reply back with "dur raho lakin sukhi raho" - Aur hamko mat pucho"?
Are you trying to make out India has not once assisted US authorities in matters of national security, is this not how responsible nations behave?
 
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What do they say in Hindi about " please help me with stopping Pakistan's terrorism, and provide us with satellite intelligence on intercepts and future threats to my country".

Should we reply back with "dur raho lakin sukhi raho" - Aur hamko mat pucho"?


we will be more than happy if your country stops nosing around the world .

Your country is cause for the greatest death and destruction on this planet .
 
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blimey.. should this be true, it will really revitalize leftists! Karat & his gang won't be jobless anymore!
 
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why is US not vacating Guantanamo Bay despite persistent demands from cuba ???
Doesn't Cuba have a lease agreement with the Americans signed in 1903 and renewed in 1934 for Guantanamo bay?
 
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Of course it is. In any transaction both sides are looking to look after their now interests and if one side is clearly gaining more than the other can we reasonably expect the deal to progress? I think not.




It is true India is going to need more logistics support as it grows more aspirational and the military extends its reach but, like I have said, to meet this need in the future can (and will ) be done through sourcing such support independently of any other nation especially the US.

Just as the US has set up its chain of outposts,bases and friendly ports as has Russia in the past, China is attempting to now so shall India when the time comes. India doesn't want to be in the US's shadow and will develop its capabilities on its own and for itself.


Is India a member of NATO or even a major non-NATO ally? Comparing Turkey to India is a, frankly, absurd parallel to make sir.


Things can be done on a case to case basis where it suits India's national interests but India isn't just going to give carte blanche to the US military by signing LSA, CISMOA and any number of other agreements with the US.

The key thing to note is that today there is zero foreign military presence in India because India is able to stand on its own two feet.



Of course it can sound like a conspiracy theorist's ramblings but I don't think I said anything illogical. The LSA opens the door to further building on sovereignty infringing actions further down the line, this much can't be denied.

I'm not talking specific incidents when I say "LSA today, permeant base tomorrow" but it is only natural that the US would try and extract the most benefits from India to meet its own national interests and that, one can assume, would involve military installations in India. The LSA is but a subtle nudge in that direction and I for one wouldn't like to see such an agreement to be made. The US is known to be an expert at serving its interests so it is only natural that one looks at any moves, even ones supposedly as benign as the LSA, with a high degree of scepticism.

Perhaps this isn't part of some grand strategy to undermine India's national sovereignty (although there are plenty of examples of this if one looks around) but, as they say, "the road to hell is paved with good intention" .


You seem have a low opinion about your country obviously whether intentionally or not I'm not sure. In the entire piece above you seem to think by signing a logistical agreement, you will immediately become America's b-i-t-ch.

That you will cease to be allowed to develop other assets, listening posts, military alliances or agreements if chose so. That everything will be is lost, your country will lose its sovereign land and the U.S will govern it- and by that extension you will be the 51st state of United States America and underlying indian subcontinent ! Jai Hind will cease to exist

ALL because of a logistical agreement. Alright then!

The example of Turkey was to show that if a NATO ally can refuse us, on a case by case basis . A simple logistical partner can certainly do so too.
 
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