What's new

Revived: plan to give access to bases to US

The Huskar

FULL MEMBER
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
1,395
Reaction score
2
Country
India
Location
India
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, Jan. 22: The Narendra Modi government has asked the defence establishment to resurrect an 11-year-old proposal from the Pentagon that will enable India and the US to grant mutual access to each other’s military bases, refuel and replenish warships and fighter planes and, in a contingency, participate jointly in multi-nation military operations.

“The US has given us non-papers on LSA. We are now ready to look at the fine print. We have asked them to explain how these ‘foundational’ agreements benefit us. Yes, we have the political nod,” a senior defence source told The Telegraph today.

The LSA is short for “logistics support agreement”. A non-paper is a diplomatic instrument for background information before an agreement is signed (or not signed).

The crucial element the Indian establishment is grappling with is: will signing the agreements get construed politically as a military alliance? Within the establishment there is a growing belief that they can weather such an allegation because it can translate to economic benefits domestically. Also, there is awareness that the impact of fundamental policy changes can only be assessed years after the changes have been made.

“People have long looked at this relationship (India-US) and seen the fundamentals in place for a really, really close partnership, and yet it’s been a challenge in translating that into outcomes,” Ben Rhodes, deputy national security adviser in the White House’s National Security Council, said in a tele-conference from Washington last night.

A political commitment to find convergence on the three “foundational” agreements — logistics support, CISMOA (communications interoperability and security memorandum of agreement) and BECA (basic exchange and cooperation agreement for geo-spatial cooperation) — will be written into the text of the new framework agreement for India-US defence cooperation that is likely to be signed during US President Barack Obama’s visit.

US law requires the country to sign these three pacts before agreeing to transfer sophisticated military technology and weapons.

The framework agreement was first signed for 10 years in July 2005 when Pranab Mukherjee, now President, was the defence minister in the first term of Manmohan Singh’s UPA government. The agreement is due for renewal in July this year but the two sides are ready to do it now.

While the 2005 agreement laid out the basis for a relationship during which the US has supplied $10-billion worth of weapons to India — and Indian forces have been in wargames with the American military more than 70 times, the most with any country — it did not commit New Delhi to signing the “foundational agreements”.

The Left parties, on which UPA I initially relied for support, protested and alleged that India was giving up the independence of its foreign policy. In Parliament, Pranab Mukherjee defended the LSA and said it “will not affect the independence of India’s foreign policy” and that it would enable “mutual logistic support when deploying defence resources in disaster relief operations or joint exercises”.

But the UPA government abandoned the idea of signing the agreements, continuously seeking clarifications as a delaying tactic.

The LSA was put in cold storage because of protests not only from the Opposition and from within its own ranks but also from within the forces. In October 2010, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, who then headed the Indian Air Force, said: “Government had asked us about our opinion on these agreements and we told them that they will not make any substantial difference to our operational capabilities.”

The resurrection of the idea now is a consequence of a change in the environment in South Block. Officers say there have been two major shifts since the last time the LSA was looked at seriously.

First, President Obama announced in January 2012 a “rebalance to Asia” policy and referred to India as a “strategic partner”. This means many of US military assets — such as aircraft carriers — will be increasingly deployed to the south and east of India after the intense stationing in and around the Persian Gulf for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Second, the Modi government not only has the heft, without having to depend on coalition partners, but also the intent of doing away with hitches that US officials have repeatedly described as obstacles to larger transfer of technology and weapons to India.

“Let us say that while the last agreement centred around the DPG (India-US defence policy group), this one will be giving DTTI (defence trade and technology initiative) a lot of attention,” the source said.
The defence policy group (DPG), headed by India’s defence secretary and his US counterpart, monitors the overall cooperation between the militaries. The DTTI was proposed by the US two years ago through which it offered to co-develop sophisticated weapons with India.

Delegations led by India’s defence production secretary, G. Mohan Kumar, and the US undersecretary for defence acquisitions and technology, Frank Kendall, were in talks today ahead of announcements to be made during the Modi-Obama summit.

In the DTTI list being drawn up, India and the US will propose to enter into joint ventures to produce unmanned aircraft, among other technologies. The DTTI list will enable US and Indian companies to enter into joint ventures tailored to suit Modi’s “Make in India” policy.
Revived: plan to give access to bases
@Abingdonboy @sancho @IndoCarib @Indo-guy @third eye @RPK and others,can anyone verify this news.
 
.
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, Jan. 22: The Narendra Modi government has asked the defence establishment to resurrect an 11-year-old proposal from the Pentagon that will enable India and the US to grant mutual access to each other’s military bases, refuel and replenish warships and fighter planes and, in a contingency, participate jointly in multi-nation military operations.

“The US has given us non-papers on LSA. We are now ready to look at the fine print. We have asked them to explain how these ‘foundational’ agreements benefit us. Yes, we have the political nod,” a senior defence source told The Telegraph today.

The LSA is short for “logistics support agreement”. A non-paper is a diplomatic instrument for background information before an agreement is signed (or not signed).

The crucial element the Indian establishment is grappling with is: will signing the agreements get construed politically as a military alliance? Within the establishment there is a growing belief that they can weather such an allegation because it can translate to economic benefits domestically. Also, there is awareness that the impact of fundamental policy changes can only be assessed years after the changes have been made.

“People have long looked at this relationship (India-US) and seen the fundamentals in place for a really, really close partnership, and yet it’s been a challenge in translating that into outcomes,” Ben Rhodes, deputy national security adviser in the White House’s National Security Council, said in a tele-conference from Washington last night.

A political commitment to find convergence on the three “foundational” agreements — logistics support, CISMOA (communications interoperability and security memorandum of agreement) and BECA (basic exchange and cooperation agreement for geo-spatial cooperation) — will be written into the text of the new framework agreement for India-US defence cooperation that is likely to be signed during US President Barack Obama’s visit.

US law requires the country to sign these three pacts before agreeing to transfer sophisticated military technology and weapons.

The framework agreement was first signed for 10 years in July 2005 when Pranab Mukherjee, now President, was the defence minister in the first term of Manmohan Singh’s UPA government. The agreement is due for renewal in July this year but the two sides are ready to do it now.

While the 2005 agreement laid out the basis for a relationship during which the US has supplied $10-billion worth of weapons to India — and Indian forces have been in wargames with the American military more than 70 times, the most with any country — it did not commit New Delhi to signing the “foundational agreements”.

The Left parties, on which UPA I initially relied for support, protested and alleged that India was giving up the independence of its foreign policy. In Parliament, Pranab Mukherjee defended the LSA and said it “will not affect the independence of India’s foreign policy” and that it would enable “mutual logistic support when deploying defence resources in disaster relief operations or joint exercises”.

But the UPA government abandoned the idea of signing the agreements, continuously seeking clarifications as a delaying tactic.

The LSA was put in cold storage because of protests not only from the Opposition and from within its own ranks but also from within the forces. In October 2010, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, who then headed the Indian Air Force, said: “Government had asked us about our opinion on these agreements and we told them that they will not make any substantial difference to our operational capabilities.”

The resurrection of the idea now is a consequence of a change in the environment in South Block. Officers say there have been two major shifts since the last time the LSA was looked at seriously.

First, President Obama announced in January 2012 a “rebalance to Asia” policy and referred to India as a “strategic partner”. This means many of US military assets — such as aircraft carriers — will be increasingly deployed to the south and east of India after the intense stationing in and around the Persian Gulf for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Second, the Modi government not only has the heft, without having to depend on coalition partners, but also the intent of doing away with hitches that US officials have repeatedly described as obstacles to larger transfer of technology and weapons to India.

“Let us say that while the last agreement centred around the DPG (India-US defence policy group), this one will be giving DTTI (defence trade and technology initiative) a lot of attention,” the source said.
The defence policy group (DPG), headed by India’s defence secretary and his US counterpart, monitors the overall cooperation between the militaries. The DTTI was proposed by the US two years ago through which it offered to co-develop sophisticated weapons with India.

Delegations led by India’s defence production secretary, G. Mohan Kumar, and the US undersecretary for defence acquisitions and technology, Frank Kendall, were in talks today ahead of announcements to be made during the Modi-Obama summit.

In the DTTI list being drawn up, India and the US will propose to enter into joint ventures to produce unmanned aircraft, among other technologies. The DTTI list will enable US and Indian companies to enter into joint ventures tailored to suit Modi’s “Make in India” policy.
Revived: plan to give access to bases
@Abingdonboy @sancho @IndoCarib @Indo-guy @third eye @RPK and others,can anyone verify this news.


I think modi govt is just showing carrot ...

I do not think that this will materialize

Given nationalistic credentials of BJP ...it is unlikely that they will do something which MMS did not dare to do despite his obvious proclivity towards US.

Let us watch how this actually unfolds ...

If ..if this happens it will be off course construed as military alliance with US ..and that's why india should avoid it .
 
Last edited:
. . .
I am not sure if Modi govt is really serious about it. If he comes back to power again, may be in the next term. As exciting as the idea may seem, I think it also a risky proposotion. Modi has to tread carefully here
 
.
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, Jan. 22: The Narendra Modi government has asked the defence establishment to resurrect an 11-year-old proposal from the Pentagon that will enable India and the US to grant mutual access to each other’s military bases, refuel and replenish warships and fighter planes and, in a contingency, participate jointly in multi-nation military operations.

“The US has given us non-papers on LSA. We are now ready to look at the fine print. We have asked them to explain how these ‘foundational’ agreements benefit us. Yes, we have the political nod,” a senior defence source told The Telegraph today.

The LSA is short for “logistics support agreement”. A non-paper is a diplomatic instrument for background information before an agreement is signed (or not signed).

The crucial element the Indian establishment is grappling with is: will signing the agreements get construed politically as a military alliance? Within the establishment there is a growing belief that they can weather such an allegation because it can translate to economic benefits domestically. Also, there is awareness that the impact of fundamental policy changes can only be assessed years after the changes have been made.

“People have long looked at this relationship (India-US) and seen the fundamentals in place for a really, really close partnership, and yet it’s been a challenge in translating that into outcomes,” Ben Rhodes, deputy national security adviser in the White House’s National Security Council, said in a tele-conference from Washington last night.

A political commitment to find convergence on the three “foundational” agreements — logistics support, CISMOA (communications interoperability and security memorandum of agreement) and BECA (basic exchange and cooperation agreement for geo-spatial cooperation) — will be written into the text of the new framework agreement for India-US defence cooperation that is likely to be signed during US President Barack Obama’s visit.

US law requires the country to sign these three pacts before agreeing to transfer sophisticated military technology and weapons.

The framework agreement was first signed for 10 years in July 2005 when Pranab Mukherjee, now President, was the defence minister in the first term of Manmohan Singh’s UPA government. The agreement is due for renewal in July this year but the two sides are ready to do it now.

While the 2005 agreement laid out the basis for a relationship during which the US has supplied $10-billion worth of weapons to India — and Indian forces have been in wargames with the American military more than 70 times, the most with any country — it did not commit New Delhi to signing the “foundational agreements”.

The Left parties, on which UPA I initially relied for support, protested and alleged that India was giving up the independence of its foreign policy. In Parliament, Pranab Mukherjee defended the LSA and said it “will not affect the independence of India’s foreign policy” and that it would enable “mutual logistic support when deploying defence resources in disaster relief operations or joint exercises”.

But the UPA government abandoned the idea of signing the agreements, continuously seeking clarifications as a delaying tactic.

The LSA was put in cold storage because of protests not only from the Opposition and from within its own ranks but also from within the forces. In October 2010, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, who then headed the Indian Air Force, said: “Government had asked us about our opinion on these agreements and we told them that they will not make any substantial difference to our operational capabilities.”

The resurrection of the idea now is a consequence of a change in the environment in South Block. Officers say there have been two major shifts since the last time the LSA was looked at seriously.

First, President Obama announced in January 2012 a “rebalance to Asia” policy and referred to India as a “strategic partner”. This means many of US military assets — such as aircraft carriers — will be increasingly deployed to the south and east of India after the intense stationing in and around the Persian Gulf for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Second, the Modi government not only has the heft, without having to depend on coalition partners, but also the intent of doing away with hitches that US officials have repeatedly described as obstacles to larger transfer of technology and weapons to India.

“Let us say that while the last agreement centred around the DPG (India-US defence policy group), this one will be giving DTTI (defence trade and technology initiative) a lot of attention,” the source said.
The defence policy group (DPG), headed by India’s defence secretary and his US counterpart, monitors the overall cooperation between the militaries. The DTTI was proposed by the US two years ago through which it offered to co-develop sophisticated weapons with India.

Delegations led by India’s defence production secretary, G. Mohan Kumar, and the US undersecretary for defence acquisitions and technology, Frank Kendall, were in talks today ahead of announcements to be made during the Modi-Obama summit.

In the DTTI list being drawn up, India and the US will propose to enter into joint ventures to produce unmanned aircraft, among other technologies. The DTTI list will enable US and Indian companies to enter into joint ventures tailored to suit Modi’s “Make in India” policy.
Revived: plan to give access to bases
@Abingdonboy @sancho @IndoCarib @Indo-guy @third eye @RPK and others,can anyone verify this news.
I don't see it happening, this won't go down well with the opposition or within the BJP's own ranks and India gains little from this, only the US really would benefit.
 
.
WikiLeaks revelations are quite interesting read in light of current development

The Global Intelligence Files - INSIGHT - India-US Logistics Support Agreement





The Global Intelligence Files
On Monday February 27th, 2012, WikiLeaks began publishing The Global Intelligence Files, over five million e-mails from the Texas headquartered "global intelligence" company Stratfor. The e-mails date between July 2004 and late December 2011. They reveal the inner workings of a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations, such as Bhopal's Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the US Department of Homeland Security, the US Marines and the US Defence Intelligence Agency. The emails show Stratfor's web of informers, pay-off structure, payment laundering techniques and psychological methods.
INSIGHT - India-US Logistics Support Agreement
Released on 2013-09-09 00:00 GMT
Email-ID 63128
Date 2008-01-31 20:29:59
From reva.bhalla@stratfor.com
To intelligence@stratfor.com
Ad by BestSaveForYou | Close
from our contact in New Delhi..he spoke with a couple of defense contacts
and gathered info from open source on the subject



India-US Logistics Support Agreement



Date to Watch: February 25-26: India and US likely to sign four
Agreements: Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum of
Agreement (CISMOA), Container Security Initiative (CSI) and the end-use
verification agreement of US defense equipment, and the Logistics Support
Agreement (LSA).





This LSA version as ACSA needs (perhaps):



. Full fledged defense alliance with the US (besides Left parties,
even Congress or other Nationalist parties don't agree with this).

. Allowing US armed forces or the US naval vessels in the country;

. Agreeing to pre-position US material in the country;

. Serving as a host country for US armed forces during exercises;

. Permitting US military operations in the country.






The proposed Logistics Support Agreement under which both countries' armed
forces will provide each other with logistic support, refueling and
berthing facilities for each other's warships and aircraft. However, the
ongoing Joint military exercise spree notwithstanding

the political atmosphere for a successful Indo-US- LSA is not yet ripe, as
Left parties have opposed any strategic military partnership with the US.
The Congress government and also BJP as individual entity want to engage
with US militarily and in other spheres, Coalition politics hinders their
movement towards that effect.




Like the nuke deal, Left parties also opposed (and plans to oppose in
futre too) any development in this regard during US defence secretary,
Robert Gates' visit in late February 08. Left party thinks LSA is more
dangerous than the nuke deal in its implications. Anyway, the government
also thinks beyond Left opposition and pros and cons of all these military
and (civil) agreements. Already the West Bengal CPI(Marxist) passed a
resolution against LSA/Indo-US nuke deal. According to it the UPA
government is trying to convert India into a `junior partner' of the US.



The government had assured the Left leaders earlier that the LSA would not
be signed.



The Indo-US Defense Policy Group (DPG) meeting held in mid January in
Washington had reviewed the defense ties and decided to bring the LSA and
other military agreement into conclusion in the coming months (during
Gates visit). The LSA is also pending with the cabinet committee on
security. Unless it is through with CCS, it is difficult for the Congress
led UPA government to go ahead and sign it. (Of course Left opposition is
still there to overcome.)



US Amb. Mulford's comment triggered LSA debate again when he said, the
LSA is "potentially of great importance to the Indian military to ease the
operational abilities of the two military forces". He acknowledged that
there were "certain sensitivities involved."



[My Sources closely working with Former Army General/in land Warfare
Studies and Air power Studies]The likelihood of LSA in near future is less
as India doesn't want US eyes on its military establishment. And it fears
that LSA could facilitate US intrusion into military establishments in t
he guise of support. Gates's visit will of course mark some improvement in
ties even though there would be possible protests by anti-US groups.




There is talk of humanitarian and disaster relief aspect of LSA only, when
the Congress party leaders (such as FM Pranab Mukherjee) tried to convince
its allies and oppositions in the Parliament. Until now the government has
not made it public that the agreement (LSA) is under consideration with US
(it assured its Left allies that its not in the priority). But now it is
in public domain and under consideration. If signed it will be a victory
for Congress and outgoing Bush admin.



Indian Armed Force and many in the UPA led government (Left Combine) and
outside (US bashers like Smajawadi Party) are fearing about the
implications(such as exposing its strategic assets and consequent military
subjugations, etc) of LSA.
However, India too doesn't want to sideline
every opportunity to build a robust defense- industrial complex with US
help. Mukherjee has ben repeatedly saying that the LSA won't affect
India's independent foreign policy and would not operate in situations of
armed conflict (He only highlighted the deployment of defense resources in
disaster relief operations or joint exercises and NO commitment for
assistance in the war /conflict situation).



Another aspect of LSA which is a bone of contention: mutual assistance of
military equipment/hardwares when required or when in need for free of
cost. (Remember the Acquisition and Cross Servicing Agreement (and also
with similar version for non NATO allies-Sri Lanka and Pakistan have this
perhaps).




(I gather while discussing with )Observers here in Delhi to sees this as
US attempt to overpower or dominate the region (of course with much needed
India's help), in the guise of cost effective mutual military assistance.
And also think that this will carve a foothold for US on Indian soil.




Not to ignore the economic benefits and strategic achievements the
Pentagon will have with this. The outgoing Bush admin sees this only
saving grace as the Nuke deal in jeopardy. Of course with lucrative deals
(126 MRCA) and military JVs in mind.
 
.
IN's ships routinely re-supply at USN's gulf bases even today.
Similarly Goa hosts many British,French,American and Russian ships.
LSA will simply institutionalize this practice.
 
.
I think modi govt is just showing carrot ...

I do not think that this will materialize

Given nationalistic credentials of BJP ...it is unlikely that they will do something which MMS did not dare to do despite his obvious proclivity towards US.

Let us watch how this actually unfolds ...

If ..if this happens it will be off course construed as military alliance with US ..and that's why india should avoid it .

It will be domestic PR nightmare. Btw USA is highly unreliable. never forget 1971.

Once you give them foothold they will push through to establish themselves and will never give up .

guntanamo bay is a vivid example ...

I am not sure if Modi govt is really serious about it. If he comes back to power again, may be in the next term. As exciting as the idea may seem, I think it also a risky proposotion. Modi has to tread carefully here

I don't see it happening, this won't go down well with the opposition or within the BJP's own ranks and India gains little from this, only the US really would benefit.

Question: How many of you actually read the article? If not, after reading the article please answer the following

1. Is this a military alliance or just a logistical alliance?
2. Will India get access to U.S bases for logistical purposes only or do you think Indian troops will be based within U.S bases, like U.S is based within NATO.
3. Will U.S be allowed to base itself similar to what we do with NATO or simply have access to logistical needs of fueling, berth etc within Indian bases.
4. Is India a part of a multi-national force in dealing with piracy? How is this different?

If you have answered all these questions correctly, you will see that everyone of you have originally blown the “logistics support agreement” into some sort of NATO like alliance.
 
.
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, Jan. 22: The Narendra Modi government has asked the defence establishment to resurrect an 11-year-old proposal from the Pentagon that will enable India and the US to grant mutual access to each other’s military bases, refuel and replenish warships and fighter planes and, in a contingency, participate jointly in multi-nation military operations.

“The US has given us non-papers on LSA. We are now ready to look at the fine print. We have asked them to explain how these ‘foundational’ agreements benefit us. Yes, we have the political nod,” a senior defence source told The Telegraph today.

The LSA is short for “logistics support agreement”. A non-paper is a diplomatic instrument for background information before an agreement is signed (or not signed).

I think both sides are window shopping yet.

It may just be that way for a while & the cards will slowly come on the table.

Shouldn't read too much into this...yet.
 
.
Question: How many of you actually read the article? If not, after reading the article please answer the following

1. Is this a military alliance or just a logistical alliance?
2. Will India get access to U.S bases for logistical purposes only or do you think Indian troops will be based within U.S bases, like U.S is based within NATO.
3. Will U.S be allowed to base itself similar to what we do with NATO or simply have access to logistical needs of fueling, berth etc within Indian bases.
4. Is India a part of a multi-national force in dealing with piracy? How is this different?

If you have answered all these questions correctly, you will see that everyone of you have originally blown the “logistics support agreement” into some sort of NATO like alliance.


One can never expect relationship on equal terms with US .

It is always heavily skewed in US's favor .

all things look nice on paper .

but we do not want to become US stooge . we already have seen what is happening in our neighbourhod .

Tomorrow if hostilities break out between US and Iran - we do not want to shelter US vessel after they bombard Iran and so on ....

NO THANKS !
 
Last edited:
. .
I don't see it happening, this won't go down well with the opposition or within the BJP's own ranks and India gains little from this, only the US really would benefit.
I don't think Indian forces will permit this type of agreement.Also such decision will blow the morale of Indian Army to smithereens.
 
.
One can never expect relationship on equal terms with US .

It is always heavily skewed in US's favor .

all things look nice on paper .

but we do not want to become US stooge . we already have seen what is happening in our neighbourhod .

Tomorrow if hostilities break out between US and Iran - we do not want to sholter US vessel after they bombard Iran and so on ....

NO THANKS !

So........... you did not read the article.
 
.
I think both sides are window shopping yet.

It may just be that way for a while & the cards will slowly come on the table.

Shouldn't read too much into this...yet.
But if this decision comes into action,geopolitics of IOR will totally traverse in opposite direction.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom