Reverence of Christianity and Jesus in Islam (Threads merged)

[Mick in England]

Asim Aquil quote - I have high regard for Christianity..
--------------------------------------------------


But not high enough to become a Christian?
(I'm presuming you're nonchristian?)
Which part of this don't you like? -

"Love God and your neighbour, this is the whole law,
Love one another, love your enemies,
bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,
greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends,
Hungry and you fed me,
Thirsty and you gave me drink,
A stranger and you took me in,
Naked and you clothed me,
ill and you tended me,
In prison and you visited me.
When you did this to others,
you did it to me.
You're my friends if you follow me, I don't call you servants, I call you friends."
(Jesus of Nazareth)

 

[Mick in England]

Spartan quote -Jesus is a revered man in Islam. You will never find a muslim who will say otherwise.
Which is why I suppose you guys have never had much sucess in bringing muslims over by talking about Jesus, you are preaching to the converted.
---------------------------------------------------------------


Jesus said "I'm the Son of God"
But Muslims say "Oh no you're not"
Is that how Muslims revere him by calling him a fibber?

 

[Awesome]

Asim Aquil quote - I have high regard for Christianity..
--------------------------------------------------


But not high enough to become a Christian?
(I'm presuming you're nonchristian?)
Which part of this don't you like? -

"Love God and your neighbour, this is the whole law,
Love one another, love your enemies,
bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,
greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends,
Hungry and you fed me,
Thirsty and you gave me drink,
A stranger and you took me in,
Naked and you clothed me,
ill and you tended me,
In prison and you visited me.
When you did this to others,
you did it to me.
You're my friends if you follow me, I don't call you servants, I call you friends."
(Jesus of Nazareth)

It's alright. But I have no evidence that really is Jesus's words. Theological evidence states that the Bible (the new and the old) is the work of man and not the word of God.

There are issues of spin at stake. There is propaganda within the New Testament. Moreover the people who started writing it did not even meet Jesus and the process started far away. For me authenticity of the word of God is absolutely necessary and thats why I like Christianity to the point that I don't reject it as a false religion. I acknowledge the message of Christ as a relayed message of God's. But is it exactly as what the Bible states?

 

[Awesome]

Actually we claim he never said so. The person who wrote down the first story of Jesus never really met Jesus. The life of Jesus as recorded is spin upon spin. So with that we claim that this is something that was altered by man.

Messenger of God were really close to Allah. Muhammad himself is a messenger. A mortal being nonetheless and also faced his death. Jesus on the other hand is believed to have never died and would face his death too one day. But he'd once again be entrusted by Allah for a great task during the end of days.

 

[Mick in England]

..The person who wrote down the first story of Jesus never really met Jesus. The life of Jesus as recorded is spin upon spin. So with that we claim that this is something that was altered by man

Two of the gospel-writers were actual disciples (Matthew and John), so I think their credibility as eyewitnesses is pretty good

As for the claim that the Bible has been altered over the centuries, if that was true why are there so many jarring contradictory bits left in it?
Wouldn't the alterers have edited them out to make the Bible look all neat and tidy?
No, the Bible came down to us warts and all without being tampered with, and that speaks volumes for its authenticity..

 

[Mick in England]

But I have no evidence that really is Jesus's words

We could say the same about Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius etc,so why are you singling out Jesus?

 

[Awesome]

Perhaps thats because different editors wrote from their own perspectives, motives and agendas.

One of the biggest portions of the New Testaments must be that written by Paul. He didn't bother with the Life of Jesus story but he did begin penning down the writing process of the New Testament and formed various church-like institutions wherever he travelled. Paul who at first persecuted Christians later converted and started this journey not in the Holy Land but in modern day Turkey IIRC.

How can such a person get down to writing lets say... The section known as the Acts?

 

[Awesome]

Becaus we don't have the words as passed down by the original preacher of the faith of any other religion accept of Islam's. I'm not singling out Jesus, I'm singling out the Muhammad and the Allah's message he carried, the Quran.

It never changed. The rest, ALL did. If you go further back to the old testament you'd find even greater changes and events that caused these changes.

 

[Mick in England]

Becaus we don't have the words as passed down by the original preacher of the faith of any other religion accept of Islam's. I'm not singling out Jesus, I'm singling out the Muhammad and the Allah's message he carried, the Quran.
It never changed. The rest, ALL did. If you go further back to the old testament you'd find even greater changes and events that caused these changes.

Did Mohammed write the Koran himself, or did other people write it, like with Jesus?

 

[Mick in England]

Perhaps thats because different editors wrote from their own perspectives, motives and agendas.
One of the biggest portions of the New Testaments must be that written by Paul. He didn't bother with the Life of Jesus story but he did begin penning down the writing process of the New Testament and formed various church-like institutions wherever he travelled. Paul who at first persecuted Christians later converted and started this journey not in the Holy Land but in modern day Turkey IIRC.
How can such a person get down to writing lets say... The section known as the Acts?

The whole of Israel was buzzing with excitement after Jesus's death and people couldn't stop talking about him, so God sent Paul all around the Mediterranean to help and encourage the early church groups.
His qualifications for the job were pretty good, he actually spoke with Jesus himself on the Damascus road

 

[Awesome]

Neither Muhammad nor the people were the author's of the Quran. He got revelations and dictated them to his very close companions. So Allah was the author. Like Moses's Torah and Jesus's Injeel.

 

[Mick in England]

Neither Muhammad nor the people were the author's of the Quran. He got revelations and dictated them to his very close companions. So Allah was the author. Like Moses's Torah and Jesus's Injeel.

Jesus said "I only say what my Father tells me to say" (John 12:49 )
"I'm the Son of God" (Mark 14:61)

But Allah says through Mohammed "O followers of the Bible, do not speak lies against Allah, but speak the truth, Jesus son of Mary is only an apostle of Allah, and not his son" (Koran 4.171)

So how can God and Allah be the same if they say different things?

 

[Awesome]

What I find John's remarkable quality and the best man for this job is that he had guts. He's a new convert and does not shy from going to ephesus and preaching there.

We understand a couple of things about Paul. Prior to his conversion he was a cruel man who had been harsh to the Christians. As soon as he did become Christian the first thing he does is set up small ministries that he controlled through letters. In all this while he hasn't bothered with the story of Jesus nor does Archaeology reveal any evidence of one's existence. This was many years after Jesus's departure from the planet. So I'm guessing a story of Jesus Christ should've existed in between this time period.

But Christianity only records the gospels writen after Paul was persecuted himself when he decide to goto Rome to preach. With his persecution came a persecuted story of Jesus Christ.

 

[Awesome]

And again we therefore have to doubt the accuracy of the Koran writers

Again we have to doubt the accuracy of Mark when narrating the story of Jesus.

A lot of people assume that Matthew, John, Luke and Mark all gave the same account into the life of Jesus. Which is basically not true.

Look at the Christmas story. In Matthew's versions there is the star and the wise men from the east. No talk about Angels in the birth of Jesus. We get that from Luke. In Mark there's no birth story at all as with John. But John starts Jesus off in a totally different location.

Now if we have such varying accounts into the fundamental nature of the existence of Jesus Christ, a question of accuracy is raised. In a court of law, when we get different eye witness accounts the judge/jury is going to wonder if one is accurate and the rest are false or all of them hardly retain any truth in them.

The other doubt upon the gospel writers is that, were they really there as eye -witnesses? Or are 4 different accounts just a biblical Chinese whisper game that got passed around from editor to editor and each changed it as they saw convenient.

 

[Mick in England]

Again we have to doubt the accuracy of Mark when narrating the story of Jesus.

And again we therefore have to doubt the accuracy of the Koran writers