Resolve the Kahmir issue now

[lem34]

I have now been coming on this forum for about a month. I must say it’s an interesting forum and I have learned a lot. Interestingly we have lots of Indians who also participate. I am as guilty as anyone of being partisan and have had my share of infraction notices I am embarrassed to say. Having said that there seems to be lots of people from India Pakistan china etc who it is clear are knowledgeable people and have some good ideas.

It is clear that both India and Pakistan have used their scarce recourses almost since inception unwisely and we both countries have our share of good for nothing corrupt politicians.

Worse than wasting money we have lost precious lives on both sides. I do not want to imagine the pain I would suffer if one of my loved ones died. Yet there are people on both sides who have lost loved ones. We owe it to those that have died not to let this continue.

I live in England and the relations between Indian and Pakistani communities is relatively good. I am Pakistani Punjabi Muslim and have very good Indian friends who are Hindus and Sikhs. We eat similar foods our mothers where similar clothes etc

The route cause of the hatred sometimes that get the forum moderators excited is Kashmir.

I refuse to accept that it is impossible to resolve this issue. Why don’t we discuss methods of trying to resolve this issue amicably? My suggestions:

1. We accept that all of Kashmir belongs to Pakistan however Pakistan leases Kashmir for 200 years to India. India pays or gives Pakistan some financial inducement.

2. We accept that all of Kashmir belongs to India however Pakistan leases Kashmir for 200 years to Pakistan. Pakistan pays or gives India some financial inducement.

With either of 1 or 2 hopefully in 200 years time we would hope both countries are so friendly that we have formed some kind of EEC type of grouping in our area.

3. We commission new boundary committee that agrees to international boundary that is acceptable. Other countries barter give and take why cant we,

4. The whole of Kashmir is given autonomy and as both Indians and Pakistanis love kashmiris so much both countries allow a certain number of people elected people to sit in our respective legislatures and allow kashmiris to hold duel nationality.

I know some may call me naive and that there is a lack of detail in these ideas but that is deliberate in that it keeps this post short and quick to read and allows I hope those of you that are interested to add your ideas and thoughts and maybe just maybe we might come up with something that becomes popular. I also realise that I certainly do not have a monopoly on good ideas. So please lets discuss see what we can come up with.

 

[Mo12]

Agree wth you there.

 

[Jade]

Certainly some new ideas...but uncertain how practical they are..

 

[Meengla]

India and Pakistan will HAVE to learn to live with each other. There is no way around it. If Karzai calls Pakistan a 'conjoined twin' of Afghanistan then India is a conjoined twin of Pakistan--and vice versa.
BELIEVE ME: India and Pakistan peace or at least detente is going to happen. Most probably in our own life time. With that in mind we need start accelerating that process. Why wait for 5 or 10 or 50 more years to do the needful when you can do it now?
Kashmir is the issue.
But is Kashmir larger than Pakistan? I don't think so.
The aim of Pakistan should be to normalize relations with India in such a way that Kashmiris--including the displaced Pundits--have justice while Pakistan's water-rights are not infringed upon. The aim of India should be to have a peaceful western border, along with access to the vast natural resources of Iran and Central Asia; Pakistan currently blocks that very lucrative path.

Of course devil is in the details.
LoC = IB solution is workable if India guarantees Kashmiris their due rights and Pakistan its water-security.
If that is too emotional of an issue then some kind of autonomous status for entire Kashmir. Some kind of Andorra Plan. Anything but status quo because status quo is killing our potentials. Today India is strong. But barely 5-6 years ago Pakistani economy too was galloping. Remove the terrorist threat and you will see Pakistan will bounce back. No more of these zero-sum games.
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL FROM KANYAKUMARI TO KHYBER WITHOUT UNDUE RESTRICTIONS IN MY OWN LIFETIME.

 

[Jade]

India and Pakistan will HAVE to learn to live with each other. There is no way around it. If Karzai calls Pakistan a 'conjoined twin' of Afghanistan then India is a conjoined twin of Pakistan--and vice versa.
BELIEVE ME: India and Pakistan peace or at least detente is going to happen. Most probably in our own life time. With that in mind we need start accelerating that process. Why wait for 5 or 10 or 50 more years to do the needful when you can do it now?
Kashmir is the issue.
But is Kashmir larger than Pakistan? I don't think so.
The aim of Pakistan should be to normalize relations with India in such a way that Kashmiris--including the displaced Pundits--have justice while Pakistan's water-rights are not infringed upon. The aim of India should be to have a peaceful western border, along with access to the vast natural resources of Iran and Central Asia; Pakistan currently blocks that very lucrative path.

Of course devil is in the details.
LoC = IB solution is workable if India guarantees Kashmiris their due rights and Pakistan its water-security.
If that is too emotional of an issue then some kind of autonomous status for entire Kashmir. Some kind of Andorra Plan. Anything but status quo because status quo is killing our potentials. Today India is strong. But barely 5-6 years ago Pakistani economy too was galloping. Remove the terrorist threat and you will see Pakistan will bounce back. No more of these zero-sum games.
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL FROM KANYAKUMARI TO KHYBER WITHOUT UNDUE RESTRICTIONS IN MY OWN LIFETIME.

Most of your ideas are certainly practical and implementable...and I foresee an end solution to Kashmir on these similar lines

 

[Hulk]

India and Pakistan will HAVE to learn to live with each other. There is no way around it. If Karzai calls Pakistan a 'conjoined twin' of Afghanistan then India is a conjoined twin of Pakistan--and vice versa.
BELIEVE ME: India and Pakistan peace or at least detente is going to happen. Most probably in our own life time. With that in mind we need start accelerating that process. Why wait for 5 or 10 or 50 more years to do the needful when you can do it now?
Kashmir is the issue.
But is Kashmir larger than Pakistan? I don't think so.
The aim of Pakistan should be to normalize relations with India in such a way that Kashmiris--including the displaced Pundits--have justice while Pakistan's water-rights are not infringed upon. The aim of India should be to have a peaceful western border, along with access to the vast natural resources of Iran and Central Asia; Pakistan currently blocks that very lucrative path.

Of course devil is in the details.
LoC = IB solution is workable if India guarantees Kashmiris their due rights and Pakistan its water-security.
If that is too emotional of an issue then some kind of autonomous status for entire Kashmir. Some kind of Andorra Plan. Anything but status quo because status quo is killing our potentials. Today India is strong. But barely 5-6 years ago Pakistani economy too was galloping. Remove the terrorist threat and you will see Pakistan will bounce back. No more of these zero-sum games.
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL FROM KANYAKUMARI TO KHYBER WITHOUT UNDUE RESTRICTIONS IN MY OWN LIFETIME.

About the bold part, India is ready to do that and in-fact doing it already.
We already follow water treaty.
Kashmiri's did not had any problem before eighties minus maybe poll fraud. If the terrorist do not attack and people do not create unnecessary protest this will be none issue.

 

[Meengla]

I don't think it is good to dwell on history too much here some points still come to mind: 1989 was just a too bad of a time for India to bungle up the election fraud in Kashmir to spark the indigenous revolt inside Indian-held Kashmir; right around that time the Soviets were withdrawing from Afghanistan and the jihadis were free to look elsewhere. Pakistani planners decided to help the 'Freedom Movement' inside Kashmir. And, yes, the movement came from within Kashmir. Pakistan came in later.
In hindsight, I would say, India messed up Kashmir. Between 1947 and 1989--full 42 years but Kashmiris remained alienated from India. In that time, Pakistan consolidated its gain in the Pakistani part of Kashmir to the point of having created 'facts on the ground'.

Enough of history.


However, if any Pakistani today think that whole Kashmir is going to be Pakistan one day is living in a fool's paradise. Likewise for India. People of both countries not-so-secretly wish that the other side 'breaks up'--implodes--so that 'my' side enjoys the fruit. That is narrow-mindedness: People will still be around even if countries break up. And broken up countries will likely mean more strife. More terrorism. Two dealing with each other is easier than twenty dealing with each other!

 

[nForce]

India and Pakistan will HAVE to learn to live with each other. There is no way around it. If Karzai calls Pakistan a 'conjoined twin' of Afghanistan then India is a conjoined twin of Pakistan--and vice versa.
BELIEVE ME: India and Pakistan peace or at least detente is going to happen. Most probably in our own life time. With that in mind we need start accelerating that process. Why wait for 5 or 10 or 50 more years to do the needful when you can do it now?
Kashmir is the issue.
But is Kashmir larger than Pakistan? I don't think so.
The aim of Pakistan should be to normalize relations with India in such a way that Kashmiris--including the displaced Pundits--have justice while Pakistan's water-rights are not infringed upon. The aim of India should be to have a peaceful western border, along with access to the vast natural resources of Iran and Central Asia; Pakistan currently blocks that very lucrative path.

Of course devil is in the details.
LoC = IB solution is workable if India guarantees Kashmiris their due rights and Pakistan its water-security.
If that is too emotional of an issue then some kind of autonomous status for entire Kashmir. Some kind of Andorra Plan. Anything but status quo because status quo is killing our potentials. Today India is strong. But barely 5-6 years ago Pakistani economy too was galloping. Remove the terrorist threat and you will see Pakistan will bounce back. No more of these zero-sum games.
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL FROM KANYAKUMARI TO KHYBER WITHOUT UNDUE RESTRICTIONS IN MY OWN LIFETIME.

You can very well forget anything on the line of an Andorra plan.Anything,I repeat anything that has a slightest hint of any region of India going from Indian hand to any other party,like U.N. will have a very violent reaction.Its like pointing you in your eyes,that everything that you stand for is wrong.

This is something that Mussharraf could not understand,while proposing his own version of the Andorra plan,the psyche of the Indians.For him,it was okay to invite foreign boots on the soil,for Pakistan is probably accustomed to it,owing to the American bases from the 1960s.But we Indians are not.We have the tendency of doing the opposite,that is sending the British,French and Portuguese back.Anybody,who comes to India without a weapon in his hand is welcome,not else.
There is no laid-down doctrine for that,its just a common psyche,and which is understandable,as the history of India is more like the history of invasions.Its due to this mentality,that a foreign authority will not gain popularity in India.
The best that you can expect is making the condition of the status-quo an official one,that is,cease fire,no more cross border terrorists and conversion of LOC in to IB.Pakistan keeps a part of Kashmir and India keeps a part.After all these years I dont think these parts can be integrated anyways.

Well,the travel part,yes thats a nice thought.I would have liked to do the same.But then,get back to reality and carry your passport.
I am not saying that you are a terrorist,but it will be a major security loophole on our side to let Pakistanis come and go as they please and roam around all over India.We do have this problem of people crossing the borders illegally with AK-47 in their hand,you understand that,no??

 

[arihant]

IB is solution. Free movement is way of integration. Peach is way of co operation and prosperity.

 

[MrIndianSikh]

why not just recognize as part of Pakistan and J&K as apart of India? make the LoC the international border

 

[muse]

Many people are disillusioned, frustrated -- but keep your hopes high - we will get there because we have to -- however, it's important to articulate why we must get there, it's important to articulate WHY we must get there, we must articulate a hope for the future, articulate all we can achieve -- and it must be about achievement, we are after all, Asians, we respect achievement



Published: June 23, 2011 01:30 IST | Updated: June 23, 2011 01:47 IST
Kashmir step by step: the next round of talks
Suhasini Haidar



On the face of it, this summer in India-Pakistan engagement has been defined by the discovery of Osama bin Laden, the revelations of David Headley and Tahawwur Rana, and the intense turmoil inside Pakistan that has unleashed another round of deadly attacks there.

Even so, as the Foreign Secretaries prepare for their next engagement in Islamabad at the end of June, it isn't these events but three significant processes that will define their immediate agenda, particularly on Kashmir.

The first is the successful conduct of panchayat elections in Jammu and Kashmir that were completed on June 18. Despite some violence in the initial phases, even the killing of a woman candidate by gunmen in Budgam, the voter turnout was between 70-80 per cent. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah called it a “smooth ride” beyond his expectations, marking the first such election in 33 years not overrun by militant attacks, or “interference” from across the Line of Control (LoC).

In Pakistan's Kashmir () too, this weekend (June 26) will see Assembly elections and the selection of the next Prime Minister of Azad Jammu and Kashmir (Pakistan's name for it). What has marked these elections from the previous ones is the intense involvement of national parties like the PPP and the PML (Nawaz), with senior leaders as part of the campaign, as well as the participation of the Sindh-based MQM, which for the first time is contesting each of the 41 seats.

While elections on both sides of the LoC are strengthening the processes on the ground, it is the talks between India and Pakistan that have been building bilateral engagement, with all three processes in significant, albeit coincidental, tandem. Since April this year, the Home, Commerce and Defence Secretaries have all met to discuss issues like Sir Creek and the Tulbul navigation project. As the Foreign Secretaries prepare to review the progress, they will have some cause for satisfaction. While no movement may have been made on Siachen, the blueprint for visa liberalisation, and one of their most expansive economic agreements ever, with Pakistan committing itself in print to granting India MFN status, are welcome. The two sides have agreed to move from the current “positive list” of items for trade to a “negative list,” as well as new investments in the fields of energy and fuel. Most importantly, each meeting has ended with a clear timeline of the next meeting to resolve issues. An optimistic view of India-Pakistan engagement would even be that these bilateral issues need no longer occupy centre stage, as their resolution is in sight — freeing up interlocutors to focus on the two intractable issues: Kashmir and terrorism.

When it comes to Kashmir, it will be important for them to look at not the formidable size of the gap between the countries, but the remarkable distance already spanned. It is now acknowledged that the two sides came close to a settlement in the past decade. In an interview to CNN-IBN in 2009, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh confirmed that he and Pervez Musharraf had come close to a “non-territorial” solution in Kashmir. While the Musharraf-Manmohan Kashmir four-step has been dismissed by many, let us consider the steps already implemented or are on the anvil.

The ceasefire along the LoC has held more or less since 2003. On our recent visit to Chakothi on the Pakistani side, district officials showed us how the end of daily firing between the armies has allowed them to develop homes and schools in 19 of the 22 blocks adjoining the LoC. On the Indian side, villagers returned to their homes in places like Kirni in Poonch after more than a decade this April.

The next step, of demilitarisation of the main towns in the Kashmir Valley, is also evident. Despite fierce protests over the Amarnath yatra, the Shopian deaths, and Tufail Mattoo's killing across the past three summers, it was the police and the paramilitary that had to deal with the situation, while the army remained in the barracks, the exception being a flag march in July 2010 on the outskirts of Srinagar and Baramulla.

Strengthening local governance is the next step. While both India and Pakistan are unwilling to discuss greater autonomy for the two Kashmirs, regular elections and relative non-interference by the Centres in the States, chronic two decades ago, is another positive sign.

Finally, the task of making borders irrelevant through cross-LoC linkages and through cross-border management of certain institutions. Despite the tensions post the Mumbai attacks in 2008, the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and Poonch-Rawalakot bus services have continued, allowing Kashmiris to travel and see the other side for themselves, while truck trade has grown too — with officials discussing increasing the days of trade (from one to three), the crossover points (from three to five), the length of visas (to six months) and finally moving trade from the current, archaic, barter system to a banking one. These are all the steps, once unimaginable, but now leaving their imprint on Kashmiri hearts and minds. Interestingly, on various visits to Pakistani colleges, it is evident that the four-steps are now widely seen by young Pakistanis as the way forward in Kashmir, unthinkable a decade ago.

The reconciliation of the Kashmiris on both sides will, however, be incomplete without the return of Kashmiri Pandits to the valley. It is heartening to note that this summer both the Mirwaiz and Syed Ali Shah Geelani issued statements calling Pandits an “inseparable part of Kashmiri society.” The Mela Kheer Bhawani festival in June saw thousands of Pandits visit the Valley, though it may have been the recent election of Pandit woman Asha as the Sarpanch of Wussan village near Srinagar that caused the extra cheer.

The next step on Kashmir, however, will come only from introspection in New Delhi and Islamabad. The Indian government needs to understand that the absence of violence in the Valley is not peace, and that development and dignity for all Kashmiris go hand in hand. For its part, Pakistan's government must recognise that violence will never bring peace for Kashmiris, and will imperil all Pakistanis. Perhaps there's no greater proof of that than the case of terrorist Ilyas Kashmiri — who commanded 313 brigade raised by the ISI to fight India, but spent his later years planning attacks on the Pakistani military — from the GHQ attack in Rawalpindi to the Mehran naval base attack in Karachi — apart from his hand in the Mumbai attacks, the Marriott bombing and others. Kashmiri's death may be a mystery, but his diabolical life sends a clear message to Pakistan.

For both sides heading to their next round of talks, it is time to recognise that in the turmoil of India-Pakistan ties, a few windows of hope still remain. As an American pastor once famously said, “most people fail to recognise great opportunities because they come brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.”

(Suhasini Haidar is Deputy Foreign Editor, CNN-IBN.)

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Kashmir valley should be jointly managed by India and Pakistan with considerable autonomy to the Kashmiris . Pakistan should keep Azad kashmir and GB , India should keep Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist majority Ladakh .

Best solution .

 

[genmirajborgza786]

both india & pakistan keeps kashmir with some kind of "give & take " on both sides sparklingway suggested once & agree i find it a practical one kashmir's destiny lies with india & pakistan. India controlls some 38,830 sq miles = 100,569 sq km in the form of kashmir valley,jammu & laddak & 70% parts of siachen & Pakistan controlls some 32,323 sq miles = 83,716 sq km in the form azad kashmir,northern areas & about 30% parts of siachen so a give & take in between these territories wont hurt eighter parties as both will have their share of the these lands jammu & laddak for india & kashmir valley & azad kashmir maybe for pakistan or independent so the basic give & take most probably can take place in between indian controll "kashmir valley" & pakistan controll "Northern areas" where for pakistan the issue of water can be addressed & for india access to central asia is addressed

 

[53fd]

Make the existing LOC the international border, & give considerable autonomy to the AJK & J&K residents, & easy visa access.

 

[third eye]

Kashmir valley should be jointly managed by India and Pakistan with considerable autonomy to the Kashmiris . Pakistan should keep Azad kashmir and GB , India should keep Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist majority Ladakh .

Best solution .

Joint management of any area theoretically may seem possible but impossible to implement. Two women of the same family cannot manage a common kitchen - how can anyone expect region to be managed by two countries.

It is just not the land , there are more & larger issues , security being only one of them.

Conversion of the LC to IB is an option that will come closest to being workable.

Or else status quo will remain.