Report: Torture is routinely used in China to obtain confessions and silence human-rights lawyers

[oproh]

America leads in torture, they have torture facilities in america and overseas.

 

[Dungeness]

there's a weird phenomenon befuddling me a lot,and this phenomenon almost applies to all my overseas Chinese friends,which is:the longer they become an American or British(whatsoever) citizen,the more patriotic(towards China) they will be.I suppose it's the relatively free,open,mature western societies that widened their views opened their minds and gave them a broader,uncensored lense through which they can get access to inspect something they couldn't have gotten angles to unravel to themselves back in China.However,they all begin to defend China's government 360 degrees unconditionally like defending their dear big daddy after they benefit from something of west that their homeland environments can't or simply prohibit to provide.Maybe they just need a patriarchal figure more intimate to them to latch on,and obviously the westen society that more emphasizes personal value is not the right option for them.


maybe the tools are not that horrible,but fist,kick,binding also kill

You are an odd ball among Chinese members here, and I am pretty sure you have never lived abroad.

There is nothing really weird about this so called "phenomenon", and it has nothing to do with "free, open, mature western societies". The longer you live abroad, the more you know the society you live, and the more you appreciate the direction China is going. Nitpicking the wrong doing of a government is fun for some, and it is good too in general, but you just have to know what is the "greater good" for the society as a whole.

Everybody is brainwashed one way or the other, being it Chinese or westerner. The difference between them is Chinese know they are "brainwashed", therefore they will seek other sources of information to verify what they were taught. But most of their west counterpart would take whatever so called "main stream media" told them as matter of truth.

Only thing that is worse than being brainwashed, is to believe you are immune to being brainwashed.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

You are an odd ball among Chinese members here, and I am pretty sure you have never lived abroad.

There is nothing really weird about this so called "phenomenon", and it has nothing to do with "free, open, mature western societies". The longer you live abroad, the more you know the society you live, and the more you appreciate the direction China is going. Nitpicking the wrong doing of a government is fun for some, and it is good too in general, but you just have to know what is the "greater good" for the society as a whole.

Everybody is brainwashed one way or the other, being it Chinese or westerner. The difference between them is Chinese know they are "brainwashed", therefore they will seek other sources of information to verify what they were taught. But most of their west counterpart would take whatever so called "main stream media" told them as matter of truth.

Only thing that is worse than being brainwashed, is to believe you are immune to being brainwashed.

There are hundreds of media outlets throughout the world. Some are biased one way, some the other way, and some try to stay in the middle. As you said you have to judge yourself where the middle ground is.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

In our country there are tons of misjudged cases resulted by extort confessions by tortures,nobody knows how many innocent people are sitting behind bars right now for the crimes they didn't commit,but I bet that must be a huge number given the fact that those misjudged cases exposed by internet and those victims exonerated years after being executed are merely a tip of iceberg.I mean what the hell is this??why the reality can always scare the shit out of you?!I suppose those cops to some extent or even 100% knew those they tortured were innocent when they tortured them!maybe sending one more person to the jail under their hands adds a promotion on their resumes,maybe finding the real culprit causes them too much trouble,so they can stomach ruining the lives of some innocent people they may rub shoulders with in a mall or cinema when they are off work.jesus!what kind of thugs in uniforms we are living with everyday?oneday you may become their target too,these dirty cops and their fuckng dirty system are domestic terrorists,okay?not those lawyers or activists

I don't know why people are centering on "traitors" when here's an example of what Zhang Fan is talking about:
This might be what getting tortured in a Chinese prison looks like | Fusion

"A Chinese man who was wrongfully convicted of murder and spent five years in prison before being exonerated is seeking compensation after allegedly being tortured by prison officers. The South China Morning Post reports he commissioned an artist to sketch his descriptions of the alleged torture. These horrific pictures, which show a man being beaten and tortured with various implements, are the result:"

Freed Chinese prisoner uses cartoons to illustrate torture claims | South China Morning Post

You are an odd ball among Chinese members here, and I am pretty sure you have never lived abroad. .

Call him names and put your head in the sand. Make yourself feel good by saying "oh torture only happens to traitors anyway...so no big deal"

 

[Zibago]

China still uses medieval torture methods against opponents – Amnesty | World news | The Guardian

View attachment 271730

Inside Guantanamo Bay: Horrifying pictures show the restraint chairs, feeding tubes and operating theatre used on inmates in terror prison | Daily Mail Online

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Inside Guantanamo Bay: Horrifying pictures show the restraint chairs, feeding tubes and operating theatre used on inmates in terror prison | Daily Mail Online

yep, bad stuff happens in Guantanamo!

I'm sure it's really sunny in Cuba at noon.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Torturing people is fun. being tortured not so much

 

[tranquilium]

you still hold the habit of "keeee pfff!!" while walking on USA's streets and seeing a pedestrian you don't like???

If I see a pedestrian I don't like. I will leave that pedestrian alone. I don't mind what kind of life he/she leads, I don't care what religion, ideology he/she have. As long as they are not doing anything that endangers public health and people's general well being, I don't care what they do. I will never purposely give you malicious ideas to further my own interest and I ask you to do the same.

Man I whole heartedly agree with some of your comments about these human rights groups etc.

But the whole issue is different. What they are doing is to use a legitimate issue present in Chinese system + adding some of their own twists + exaggerating things + demonizing and admonishing China.

So I whole heartedly agree, that these human rights groups need to be paid no attention.

Yet, there are legitimate cases of abuse of power, some of which are never revealed.

Their is the famous case of Huligjit, a person falsely convicted for rape, then executed, on the basis of a forced confession, only to find 19 years later, that the case was false. The police just got the confession out of him.

Don't you agree guys? @Chinese Bamboo @AndrewJin @Shotgunner51

False cases do exists and the courts do need to scrutinize every case carefully. That is a reason why China is reducing the amount of death sentences for some of the crimes. I agree that if an actual case of power abuse is discovered, then the abusers must be punished to the full extent of the law.

Though this case is obviously not the case. Said professor in question is not punished under criminal law, but rather is demoted by the university. So it is essentially a case of someone being stupid and running off his mouth. It is sadly common occurrence all over the world, even among academics.

You are an odd ball among Chinese members here, and I am pretty sure you have never lived abroad.

There is nothing really weird about this so called "phenomenon", and it has nothing to do with "free, open, mature western societies". The longer you live abroad, the more you know the society you live, and the more you appreciate the direction China is going. Nitpicking the wrong doing of a government is fun for some, and it is good too in general, but you just have to know what is the "greater good" for the society as a whole.

Everybody is brainwashed one way or the other, being it Chinese or westerner. The difference between them is Chinese know they are "brainwashed", therefore they will seek other sources of information to verify what they were taught. But most of their west counterpart would take whatever so called "main stream media" told them as matter of truth.

Only thing that is worse than being brainwashed, is to believe you are immune to being brainwashed.

He is young yet and probably in that phase of believing everyone is out to get him and he alone is the waking man in the land of the sleeping. Everyone went through that at one point. Age, experience and actual first hand experience will eventually break that.

 

[Zhang Fan]

You are mixing up police violence and systemic torture. It's idotic to make comments on overseas Chinese like you. They know the societies of the Chinese and the West better. They won't follow the Western media cheap shots, and they know changes take time.

You think dragging you into a secret room completely insulated from the public sights and intentionally beating the **** outta you on an endless basis until you physically and mentally crash and "confess" to whatever those sons of bitches want you to confess is merely a policepower abusing that can be categorized or downplayed as police violence??

Look，if you need a airtight dome to surround you and manually adjust your mindset from time to time thereby you don't feel insecure because of falling too far from the line someone require you to toe,be their guest!

If you see submitting all your independent thoughts to those pulling the strings tying you up as a merit and are happy to be consumed by them as a no-paid-off sacrifice or contribution to the slow process of the changing you mentioned or to the facade of "harmonious society",no one stops you.

Overseas Chinese all tend to be revelling in the positives coming from their homeland while intentionally neglecting the negatives,they just desire to have a "Big Dad" standing behind their backs as soon as possible,it seems living in the west also doesn't help them to get rid of the "sheep" mentality.

You are an odd ball among Chinese members here, and I am pretty sure you have never lived abroad.

There is nothing really weird about this so called "phenomenon", and it has nothing to do with "free, open, mature western societies". The longer you live abroad, the more you know the society you live, and the more you appreciate the direction China is going. Nitpicking the wrong doing of a government is fun for some, and it is good too in general, but you just have to know what is the "greater good" for the society as a whole.

Everybody is brainwashed one way or the other, being it Chinese or westerner. The difference between them is Chinese know they are "brainwashed", therefore they will seek other sources of information to verify what they were taught. But most of their west counterpart would take whatever so called "main stream media" told them as matter of truth.

Only thing that is worse than being brainwashed, is to believe you are immune to being brainwashed.

Speaking of "brainwash",or the interaction between your brainwork and all the informations pouncing at you in your periphery,if you are good at sieving them,you maintain your-real-self and come out with part of you enchanced,otherwise you become a plastic bag drifting in the air,the outside information will form patterns in your mind and take control of it,right?

And for people with fundamental judgement,they should go out exploring,getting brainwashed or enchanced is totally up to them,and you should know the difference between,for example,like YouTu and YoutKu,the former can either enchance your capacity of judgement or diminish that,whereas the the latter will only surely turn you into a tamed retard.Do you know how frustrated it feels when you click open a page with contents you are very interested in and it always turns out manifesting"404 Page Not Found'?you feel controlling percolating into everywhere, If you don't do something,you mind is boomed to be narrowed for the sake of "harmonious society"!

Look I ain't some kind of oddball obsessed with everything coming from the west,okay?And I'm well aware that the trite,banal,cliche topics like "democracy" ,"freedom","blablah" used by sour-grape western media to criticize China got its ulterior motives,I'm also aware that forcefully inserting the value system compatible with one place into a new place might cause disaster and choas.And I do agree that right now the "greater good" or the "big direction" of China is indeed on its right track.But does that mean you should be its unquestioning minion always ingratiating yourself with it?

You guys sound annoyed every time you see the so-called infallibility of China is questioned,maybe that's extenuating given the western media always being captious against us and the current geopolical struggles China's got involved in,it's understandable you try to protect the image of our homeland,but do you really think it is justified to intentionally neglect the dirty businesses taking place in the secret rooms of numerous Chinese local police stations for protecting the "greater good"?And the lawyers with conscience who stand up for those tortured victims are warned,intimidated,or even tortured the same way!Why do you always have to be very discreet and tip your toes when you are simply calling for justice in China?

I love my country!I'm deeply heartened every time I see its new progress getting done!But some of its tacitly approved dirty secrets happening in its dark corner can always make my faith to it ambivalent!

 

[Zhang Fan]

I ask you to do the same.

Don't tell me what to do,your doctrine can put a crack addict to sleep.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

He is young yet and probably in that phase of believing everyone is out to get him and he alone is the waking man in the land of the sleeping. Everyone went through that at one point. Age, experience and actual first hand experience will eventually break that.

Yep, probably 18-19, since I also shared his thought during that age period.

 

[tranquilium]

I don't know why people are centering on "traitors" when here's an example of what Zhang Fan is talking about:
This might be what getting tortured in a Chinese prison looks like | Fusion

"A Chinese man who was wrongfully convicted of murder and spent five years in prison before being exonerated is seeking compensation after allegedly being tortured by prison officers. The South China Morning Post reports he commissioned an artist to sketch his descriptions of the alleged torture. These horrific pictures, which show a man being beaten and tortured with various implements, are the result:"

Freed Chinese prisoner uses cartoons to illustrate torture claims | South China Morning Post



Call him names and put your head in the sand. Make yourself feel good by saying "oh torture only happens to traitors anyway...so no big deal"

You mean like this one?
False Arrests, Convictions and Imprisonments News - The New York Times
https://www.afsc.org/sites/afsc.civicactions.net/files/documents/torture_in_us_prisons.pdf

I know China's legal system is not perfect, but please, out of the pot and kettle argument, we are at least a shade lighter than the nation with the highest incarceration rate on the planet.

And imprison people for asinine reasons:

Look, we can sling more mud at each other, but all these is actually irrelevant to OP's case. His "professor" is never tried under criminal law or any court. He is demoted through internal decision of the university.

Yep, probably 18-19, since I also shared his thought during that age period.

See the part says "Don't tell me what to do"? It does reinforce your opinion. Though I would think myself to be smarter than that at 19 year old, though I would say I went through the same thing at between 12 to 14.

 

[Dungeness]

Call him names and put your head in the sand. Make yourself feel good by saying "oh torture only happens to traitors anyway...so no big deal"

“Waterboarding” is institutional torture, the rest are called "police brutality". I am sure you know the difference. We all know about the "police brutality" in the land of free, so let's not play angle here.

He is young yet and probably in that phase of believing everyone is out to get him and he alone is the waking man in the land of the sleeping. Everyone went through that at one point. Age, experience and actual first hand experience will eventually break that.

Been there, done that. There was a time mere the sound bites of "freedom, democracy, human right" would be enough to get one excited and set him out on the mission to save humanity.

Here, one can select the President from a short "chicken or beef" menu, but can't raise his voice to a cop if he doesn't want to get shot.

 

[tranquilium]

“Waterboarding” is institutional torture, the rest are called "police brutality". I am sure you know the difference. We all know about the "police brutality" in the land of free, so let's not play angle here.



Been there, done that. There was a time mere the sound bites of "freedom, democracy, human right" would be enough to get one excited and set him out on the mission to save humanity.

Here, one can select the President from a short "chicken or beef" menu, but can't raise his voice to a cop if he doesn't want to get shot.

Well, it is more of a donkey or elephant menu. Unless, of course, the republicans this year got really drunk, then we will have Donald Trump.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

You mean like this one?
False Arrests, Convictions and Imprisonments News - The New York Times
https://www.afsc.org/sites/afsc.civicactions.net/files/documents/torture_in_us_prisons.pdf

I know China's legal system is not perfect, but please, out of the pot and kettle argument, we are at least a shade lighter than the nation with the highest incarceration rate on the planet..

I totally agree that innocent people here get sent to prison too. His point (which people are completely ignoring) is that it's bad enough being sentenced to prison if you are innocent but what makes it worse is that you may end up a victim of "police brutality" or "torture". The excuse people were making is that the people getting this bad treatment were all "traitors" who we should show no sympathy for in the first place. The reality is not all of these people fall into this category. So instead of writing this report off as a "well they ALL deserved it anyway" maybe you should think about it a bit.