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Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

Useless and hypothetical thread.
PAF is happy with F-16s.
There is no need to replace them with J-10C which have no reliable engine.
2nd purchasing is not an issue, but supporting infrastructure for new aircraft will required huge money and time.
 
Finally someone agreeing with me. Yes please for GOD sake retire Mirages and F-7. They are way old. Secondly we need a jet which can do BVR fights but also we also need a jet which carries out strikes deep into Indian territory like hitting Mumbai and Bengaluru and Goa and other cities in India.
You have a very valid concern, and PAF understands this fully well. This is all I can say for now.
 
Useless and hypothetical thread.
PAF is happy with F-16s.
There is no need to replace them with J-10C which have no reliable engine.
2nd purchasing is not an issue, but supporting infrastructure for new aircraft will required huge money and time.
Unless we are in bhaktville or north korea, I dont see what the harm is in members trying to learn / express thier views in a civil manner.
 
The only replacement for F16's are next Gen aircraft BUT even the yanks are restarting F16 production and they have also floated F36 as well, which is pretty much F16 reimagined.

F16 is like Ak-47 of the Skies.
 
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Useless and hypothetical thread.
PAF is happy with F-16s.
There is no need to replace them with J-10C which have no reliable engine.
2nd purchasing is not an issue, but supporting infrastructure for new aircraft will required huge money and time.

We know we won't be getting any new F-16s. It is game over for F-16s. The Americans aren't going to provide any. We won't be able to aqcuire any F-16 airframes through third parties. The Americans won't allow it.

The current batch of F-16s operated by PAF will eventually be phased out as soon as they are end of life. It makes sense to question what fighter will replace F-16. I think it will be a 5th gen fighter.
 
We know we won't be getting any new F-16s. It is game over for F-16s. The Americans aren't going to provide any. We won't be able to aqcuire any F-16 airframes through third parties. The Americans won't allow it.

The current batch of F-16s operated by PAF will eventually be phased out as soon as they are end of life. It makes sense to question what fighter will replace F-16. I think it will be a 5th gen fighter.
We do need to keep TAI busy, otherwise no more silly childish BS dramas.
 
OEM last recommended overhaul for Mirage 3 is GV2 with each GV cycle done every 10-12yrs of service. PAC is doing GV4 on Mirages now. Now imagine how long we can keep F-16s flying when OEM still supporting overhauls and evolving platform. F-16 will be replaced by Azm, but a stop gap purchase for Mirages can't be ruled out.
17:11
Exactly my point. Pakistan has huge amounts of lower cost labor plus PAC has developed its technical understandings. Rebuilding the Mirage 3/5 in Pakistan, and upgrading avionics is very very cost effective. PAF should keep mirage running even if if it buys new J10 or J11. I would add, if Pakistan ever wants to attempt to build a jet engine in house.....trying to build a turbojet...a copy of the mirage's engines...should be attempted. They are simpler and PAC already has a good understanding of overhauling them.

Our ability to upgrade the F-16 is restricted.....in the future spares will be harder to come by. This is what will retire them in the PAF, IMO. Better to start seriously considering purchase either J10 or J11.
The only replacement for F16's are next Gen aircraft BUT even the yanks are restarting F16 production and they have also floated F36 as well which is pretty much F16 reimagined.

F16 is like Ak-47 of the Skies.
The USAF has already started the process of considering a replacement for the F-16. They want an AC with longer range to fight in the Pacific. F-16's days are numbered in the USAF.
 
F-16's aren't going anywhere you people need to get that out of your minds ... these J-10C's will be for stop gap and replace older mirages and f-7's PAF will be working on Thunders in numbers for blk 2 and blk 3 in any-case we are still long ways to project AZM simple as that.
F Sola will stay and eventually retire from services. No new addition or upgrade of any sort. If relationship with US gets further deteriorated, the obvious impact on our current fleet of F 16s in terms of supplies & support. US is bad when it turns back on you.
 
We know we won't be getting any new F-16s. It is game over for F-16s. The Americans aren't going to provide any. We won't be able to aqcuire any F-16 airframes through third parties. The Americans won't allow it.

The current batch of F-16s operated by PAF will eventually be phased out as soon as they are end of life. It makes sense to question what fighter will replace F-16. I think it will be a 5th gen fighter.
Who told you all this?
Sooner or later, Relations will be normalized. 2nd Turk AESA radar will be available near future, probably 2023. J-10C from avionics side is a great aircraft but its engine whether Ws-10 or Al-31 is not reliable.
3rd induction of new aircraft require complete new infrastructure and time which require money.
Why i did not mention weapons of J-10C because all weapons of J-10C and JF-17 block 3 are same. So no need to induct an additional Chinese aircraft.
Even Block-03 have a better engine, also PAC is now master of RD-93 engines.
 
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Who told you all this?
Sooner or later, Relations will be normalized. 2nd Turk AESA radar will be available near future, probably 2023. J-10C from avionics side is a great aircraft but its engine whether Ws-10 or Al-31 is not reliable.
3rd induction of new aircraft require complete new infrastructure and time which require money.
Why i did not mention weapons of J-10C because all weapons of J-10C and JF-17 block 3 are same. So no need to induct an additional Chinese aircraft.
Even Block-03 have a better engine, also PAC is now master of RD-93 engines.

LOL relations won't normalize between Pakistan and the US.
 
The USAF has already started the process of considering a replacement for the F-16. They want an AC with longer range to fight in the Pacific. F-16's days are numbered in the USAF.
I did state that they floated the idea of F36! secondly F16 production which was to be seized is going to continue.
 
Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

June-22nd-2021




Chinese J-10C with PL-10 and PL-15 Missiles

The Pakistani Air Force’s combat jet acquisitions for over a decade have centred around the JF-17 Thunder fighter program, which has been pursued jointly with China and has seen the country acquire fighters both from Chinese production lines and from those located in Pakistan itself. Before the JF-17, Pakistan’s Air Force was comprised primarily of ‘very light’ third generation fighters and attack jets such as the J-7, Mirage III, Mirage 5 and Q-5, with a single elite squadron comprised of slightly heavier but still lightweight fourth generation F-16A/B Fighting Falcons. While the JF-17 has allowed Pakistan to replace the pre-fourth generation jets in its fleet with a ‘very light’ fourth generation fighter, which although in many ways more sophisticated than the F-16 has a much smaller engine and much lower operational cost, the JF-17 is not expected to replace the F-16 itself in service. Pakistan’s F-16 fleet is fast ageing, however, with the large majority comprised of F-16A/B fighters acquired in the early 1980s. This old F-16 variant has been retired by the majority of countries, with Egypt and Israel recently retiring their fleets, and only Taiwan and Venezuela expected to continue using them due to an inability to procure replacements.


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Pakistani Air Force F-16 Leads Mirage III and JF-17

Pakistan was the third country in the world to field the F-16 after the United States and Israel, and has upgraded the fighters over time including integrating modern AIM-120C air to air missiles onto them. A number of factors such as metal fatigue, however, mean that operational costs will only continue to rise and there will be growing pressure to retire the aircraft in favour of a more modern fighter - likely a lightweight or medium weight aircraft which will be larger and more capable than the JF-17. When Pakistan does so it will likely replace the jets with a non-American fighter class, as the U.S. is highly unlikely to offer a more capable aircraft such as the F-18E or F-35A. Although some unverified reports have indicated that Pakistan could consider purchasing MiG-35 fighters from Russia, this is unlikely due to Russia’s close defence ties with India, and the fact that India already operates MiG-29UPG jets which are in many ways similar, albeit much less capable, than the MiG-35. As such the most likely options are either that Pakistan will wait until its fifth generation Project AZM program being pursued with China can produce fighters, or that it will purchase Chinese J-10C fighter jets. The J-10C has notably been deployed to Pakistan in the past for joint training exercises, and reportedly made a very strong impression due to its advanced capabilities.


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Chinese J-10C Fighter

The J-10C entered service from 2018, and like the F-16 it is a single engine lightweight fighter. Having been designed several decades after the F-16, the J-10 is a much more advanced design boasting advantages in almost all parameters, including a higher speed, lower radar cross section and much greater manoeuvrability. The J-10C is the latest and most capable J-10 variant, and uses thrust vectoring engines for enhanced manoeuvrability - something no Western fighter other than the F-22 does. It benefits from stealth coatings for improved survivability. The aircraft uses a modern AESA radar paired with some of the world’s most capable air to air missiles, the PL-15 and PL-10, the former which is one of just two in the world confirmed to use an AESA radar for guidance. These missiles will also be deployed by upcoming improved variants of the JF-17.


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J-10C Equipped for Air Defence Suppression with YJ-91 and PL-10 Missiles

The J-10C would provide Pakistan with by far the most capable combat jet in its fleet, and benefits from a much lower operational cost and lower maintenance needs than the ageing F-16A airframes. Its access to YJ-91 cruise missiles provides much a much more dangerous air to ground capability than any Pakistani fighter. With the J-10C having reportedly proven capable of outperforming heavyweight Russian jets from the Flanker family, due largely to its more advanced radar and missiles, the Chinese-built fighter would provide an effective means of countering India’s most dangerous fighter class the Su-30MKI. A Pakistani J-10C purchase remains by far the most likely option should the country look to acquire new combat jets other than the JF-17, with China potentially providing the aircraft on highly favorable terms due to the close strategic partnership between the two countries. At least until the F-35 moves beyond its current very limited initial operating capability to eventually become fully operational, the J-10C will be considered the world’s most capable single engine fighter in overall performance.

Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs? (militarywatchmagazine.com)
Need stable engine. Chinese engines in the testing phase. If Russian releases AL31 , then Pak should go right away without any delay. But for some reason, Russian not releasing these engines for J10 maybe it kills the Russian jet sales pitch ...another 3rd party issue. F16 going nowhere. Its weapon on the plane, not the plane itself in modern-day technology.
 
As much as we would love to see J-10 C in PAF colours, I don't think its going to happen. J-10 C is very similar to F-16. We have those in sufficient numbers for our needs. If we still have a requirement for a similar jet, as much as we want to move away from the US, F-16 is still the best route. Sorry guys. But it just doesn't make sense to add a new platform, that is same as F-16. One or two more squadrons of the latest F-16s is what I would pick over J-10C. That is IF we have a requirement.

As far as predictions for "stop gap" jet, or "something" until AZM. I don't think we are getting anything other than JF-17 BLK III. And in my opinion that is the correct way to go since JF-17 for Pakistan does what F-16 for USAF does.
 
Sir, you are more senior than me in age and experience. Sir if we had purchased J-10 in Musharraf era, then might be our JF-17 was not in pace like now . I mean we are moving to Block 3. If we had bought the J-10 and its latest versions then pace on JFT development might look similar Al khalid tank. Where we are not focused on local product but we are keep buying off the shelf. So not buying the J-10 was a blessing for JFT development cycle. Thanks in advance.
J-10s should had been acquired the first time they were offered during Musharraf Era, by now we would had been progressing much better by getting fully accustomed to the jet along with who knows maybe local assembly line but as usual as soon as the americans dangle the F-16 carrot, we start drooling over it like a bunch of kids going to a candy store.
Now even though we have upgraded our existing fleet however we cannot build its numbers that are needed for a potent force against India. They are just too handful to be a serious deterrent. Project Azm is too far away, no way we can wait that long with our existing fleet of Jf-17s Mirages, F-7s and handful of F-16s. A potent fighter heavier than JF-17 is badly needed to supplement the F-16s while JF-17 replaces mirages and F-7s.
 
LOL relations won't normalize between Pakistan and the US.

It's a funny well wish many Pak comrades still believe the US will sell advanced jets to them. :-)
Look, the US is committed to the QUAD and that means it won't do anything undermining the QUAD -- selling weapons that could threaten the Indians. Besides, Pak is unwilling to lease the Americans a military base because doing so would forgo CPEC and perhaps the friendship with China. This is a different era than 10 or 30 years ago -- the Americans have firmly locked in on China and China has started to fight back. Pakistan must choose a side or at least stay neutral in the fight between the US and China.
 

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