Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

[The Maverick]

I think the days of landing usa equipment with serious technology is over for pakistan.. The quad is far too.important.to. USA.

you will.need to fine Rafale solution from.china soon

j10 c now

or j35 in decades time

can you afford to wait until.2030.

especially if india orders 36 more Rafale f4

as predicted in 2022

 

[iLION12345_1]

I think the days of landing usa equipment with serious technology is over for pakistan.. The quad is far too.important.to. USA.

you will.need to fine Rafale solution from.china soon

j10 c now

or j35 in decades time

can you afford to wait until.2030.

especially if india orders 36 more Rafale f4

as predicted in 2022

My my aren’t you keeping up with the times.

 

[IblinI]

I think

Please stop thinking, you are underage to THINK.
just go back to what you do the best, list out future Indian toys and feel good about it.

 

[The Maverick]

My my aren’t you keeping up with the times.

I do feel you will.make do with 30.block 3 thunders only
for some reason I'm.convinced that deep.down the pak.military would prefer a western American option ie more upgraded f16 .... As good as they claim.chineae equipment is they keep.taking envious looks at block 72 f16 and euro canard..
The j10 has,been.around since 2005 and j10.has seen.extensive use by pak.airforce in exercises along side j11...
Yet never any serious effort to buy eitherj11 or j10n.. the j11 in particular would give a reach and capability never seen before in.pak offensive capability.
strange no effort to acquire it despite apparently being Chinas most trusted ally

 

[Nasr]

I think the days of landing usa equipment with serious technology is over for pakistan.. The quad is far too.important.to. USA.

you will.need to fine Rafale solution from.china soon

j10 c now

or j35 in decades time

can you afford to wait until.2030.

especially if india orders 36 more Rafale f4

as predicted in 2022

If only it were that easy to just buy the best weapon and you've won! Must be fantastic living in Disneyland's Magic Kingdom, eh? That country can buy however many Rafales, Raptors or Elephants, don't matter one way or another to Pakistan.

Unlike the new Rafale operator, whose off-the-shelf buy out was a knee jerk reaction. Pakistan does not approach acquisition programs in such an impulsive manner. In fact, the orders for 36 more Rafales, bares testimony to the corrupt, impulsive, reactionary and wired-up leadership sitting somewhere South of the Himalayas.

The fact that Rafale's new operator country had a requisite to manufacture the aircraft in-country, in order to establish logistical and maintenance foundation. Instead the country in the East, is bleeding money buying Rafales off the shelf. While their economy seems to be slumping despite the media blitz telling the world otherwise,

Have fun in Magic Kingdom, bud.

 

[serenity]

I do feel you will.make do with 30.block 3 thunders only
for some reason I'm.convinced that deep.down the pak.military would prefer a western American option ie more upgraded f16 .... As good as they claim.chineae equipment is they keep.taking envious looks at block 72 f16 and euro canard..
The j10 has,been.around since 2005 and j10.has seen.extensive use by pak.airforce in exercises along side j11...
Yet never any serious effort to buy eitherj11 or j10n.. the j11 in particular would give a reach and capability never seen before in.pak offensive capability.
strange no effort to acquire it despite apparently being Chinas most trusted ally

Your speculation is very wrong because J-11 isn't for sale. It has never been offered. China has agreed quietly with Russia that no flanker design fighter will be sold by China.

J-10A to even J-10C before 2019 has not been easy to sell because they used Russian engine. Pakistan never asked China to buy J-10 in the past because it would involve Russia which would possibly have India running to Russia to ban the sale like they did with JF-17 using RD-93 engine. The difference with that is the J-10 had not been using WS-10 until around 2019 whereas JF-17 was quickly offered a WS-13 engine option if Russia stopped the engine supply of RD-93.

So even if Pakistan wanted J-10 or J-11 before, the J-10 required Russian engine and approval and the J-11 simply isn't for sale.

J-10 now is much easier to sell to Pakistan because they are using WS-10B and so China and Pakistan don't even need to tell Russia this exchange.

Also please don't believe some people here who insist everything in China is available for Pakistan. There are things used by Chinese military even the most trusted Pakistan military men don't have awareness of. At most, J-10C is available. Some say J-20 is even available to Pakistan and that is totally untrue. J-20 may be used in assistance if India and Pakistan go to war and this would be maximum involvement for something like J-20. Then there are some who say everything is also free. Another joke.

 

[DJ_Viper]

The J10C order shows that Pakistan's F16 is already an unstable asset. There may be a problem in the relationship between Pakistan and the United States. But this is not surprising when considering American history.

I think Pakistan needs to understand the writing on the wall. It's military relationship with the US is over (despite some small sales here and there, worthy of symbolic nature). The QUAD is the next world order and India after the US has a center seat in this new world order. India is also the only country from the QUAD that connects with China through land (keeping a long term view of a potential conflict).

I am more than positive that the first thing India would've asked the US before turning QUAD an official alliance, would be to stop supplying weapons to Pakistan as they are used against India and this situation negates the entire concept of being an ally / partner of the US to begin with.

Current administration's cold shoulder is not a hidden story either. Pakistan needs a strong economy and to diversify it's defense partners. The West would be tough to buy advanced offensive weapons from. India has built a serious place in world affairs. And no, I am not an Indian by any chance. Just writing the reality here.

 

[The Maverick]

I think Pakistan needs to understand the writing on the wall. It's military relationship with the US is over (despite some small sales here and there, worthy of symbolic nature). The QUAD is the next world order and India after the US has a center seat in this new world order. India is also the only country from the QUAD that connects with China through land (keeping a long term view of a potential conflict).

I am more than positive that the first thing India would've asked the US before turning QUAD an official alliance, would be to stop supplying weapons to Pakistan as they are used against India and this situation negates the entire concept of being an ally / partner of the US to begin with.

Current administration's cold shoulder is not a hidden story either. Pakistan needs a strong economy and to diversify it's defense partners. The West would be tough to buy advanced offensive weapons from. India has built a serious place in world affairs. And no, I am not an Indian by any chance. Just writing the reality here.

response

If pakistan had a real economy strong western links and real.diplomatic experience they can buy western hardware .
finance is their biggest issue and yes india has a big influence in western.mindsets
no body wants to upset India too much over Pakistani interests
that is a plain.fact and reality.
if pakistan.was strong internally them the west would ignore indian interests I'm.sure
and by now Rafale or a block 70.or euro fighter would be flying on pakistan.air force

 

[Deino]

YES- I have a proof that Pakistan bought 36 J-10 C jet fighters from China.
But I will not give that proof to you or any one else. Because you and any one else has no authority to ask me about proof .

Well, that's nice for you to have proof, but everyone has an to authority ask, even if you may not have an authority to tell ... but then you must accept that others will still don't take it as confirmed, for granted or with grain of salt!

 

[mdmm]

Thank you very much Deino........

Well, that's nice for you to have proof, but everyone has an to authority ask, even if you may not have an authority to tell ... but then you must accept that others will still don't take it as confirmed, for granted or with grain of salt!

 

[The Eagle]

Rafale or a block 70.or euro fighter

So by that logic, these are signs of Strong Pakistan? Why should Pakistan buy such a thing to be stronger and not by other means. I mean, no offense, despite the rant that India has a center stage and influnec in world and access to everything and weapons, Pakistan believes in quality, capability and will to execute. Despite all that Indian influence, last skirmish speaks volume of capability and resolve where no one was arguing if India has diplomatic influence and buying power so the PAF pilot shouldn't push the button.

The thing is, apparently and as per copy paste Indian narrative, Pakistan is isolated and I don't oppose such notion given the level of counter effectiveness for other side and in the meantime it is for domestic consumption and keep calm in Indian quarters.

When it comes to defence of Pakistan, I don't see anything left out or PAF is sitting duck having less options or being helpless. It's just that mindset, doctrine and level of operational advancement that India and Pakistan can never be compared. Just don't compare like that. PAF is pursuing its own road and doesn't rely on shiny toys alone.

YES- I have a proof that Pakistan bought 36 J-10 C jet fighters from China.
But I will not give that proof to you or any one else. Because you and any one else has no authority to ask me about proof .

This is an open Forum and members can ask for source or credibility. However, you can keep information to yourself and no one can force you to share. Though, calling someone upon with a taunt that you don't have an authority, isn't polite or civilized way to excuse oneself. Just say that you wouldn't share and that's it.

 

[Deino]

Thank you very much Deino........

I hope you did not get me wrong and it was in no way meant as an offence and I truly wish I would know what you know. Indeed I trust you, but just - as you surely know my for some surely nasty habit of always wanting proof or an image - since no proof is given I prefer to wait before I open the bottle of Champagne, and surely I will do, when the first image of a J-10C in PAF-colours is revealed!

 

[The Raven]

I think Pakistan needs to understand the writing on the wall. It's military relationship with the US is over (despite some small sales here and there, worthy of symbolic nature). The QUAD is the next world order and India after the US has a center seat in this new world order. India is also the only country from the QUAD that connects with China through land (keeping a long term view of a potential conflict).

I am more than positive that the first thing India would've asked the US before turning QUAD an official alliance, would be to stop supplying weapons to Pakistan as they are used against India and this situation negates the entire concept of being an ally / partner of the US to begin with.

Current administration's cold shoulder is not a hidden story either. Pakistan needs a strong economy and to diversify it's defense partners. The West would be tough to buy advanced offensive weapons from. India has built a serious place in world affairs. And no, I am not an Indian by any chance. Just writing the reality here.

Yep, as I've stated previously, the days of close US/Pak military cooperation are slowly drawing to a close. The Viper will be the last piece of major defence equipment Pakistan will purchase from the US, let alone other Western sources. Given the current situation in Afghanistan, there's no hope in hell any more Vipers are coming to the PAF. In my view, there has been a tacit agreement between the US and Pakistan of the Taliban either regaining control again, or some form of coalition government. In any case, the Pak military would prefer influence in Afghanistan (to negate indian and iranian presence) at the expense of any further Vipers.

But what is more pertinent is that it also implies no more attendance of the PAF at Red Flag exercises, or any other joint US-PAK military engagement, when the PAF transitions to an all Eastern/In-house airforce. The success of the PAF has in large part been due to the influence of US training, tactics, and doctrine, and the PAF wouldn't be what it is today if it were not for the influence of the US. The PAF will soon lose that exposure to US influence and largely have to adapt Chinese origin equipment to its own doctrine from now on...good luck with that.

As for the QUAD...well, clearly the US hasn't learnt anything itself over the past 30 years

 

[cloud4000]

What makes people feel that Pak-US relations are such that acquiring F-16s — new or used — is even viable? @Bilal Khan (Quwa) said it best: if the US wanted Pakistan to have more F-16s it would have done so by now.

Unless, the PAF is still waffling over the matter, Pakistan is looking towards China for its F-16 replacement.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What makes people feel that Pak-US relations are such that acquiring F-16s — new or used — is even viable? @Bilal Khan (Quwa) said it best: if the US wanted Pakistan to have more F-16s it would have done so by now.

Unless, the PAF is still waffling over the matter, Pakistan is looking towards China for its F-16 replacement.

Yep, but it's not so much 'F-16 replacement' but rather 'completing the fleet.'

The PAF had always planned for at least 100-150 medium-weight fighters -- ideally F-16s. However, the PAF is now looking at completing the fleet through the J-10CE.

The actual F-16 replacement will be the NGFA.