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Replacing Pakistan Navy's Westland Sea King helicopters.

Good information never knew , why people went for these and not land based choppers on ships

However in Pakistan's case if we have no options I think we would be ok to maintain these choppers with wash down and cover ups at sea bound ships, a simple plastic cover sheet over blades and engine should be enough for accidental splash of sea water

The whole folding the blades perhaps seems nice idea for Air craft carriers which we don't have to begin with

99% of times sea water would not be hitting the chopper anyways as sea is relatively calm

If we have no choice , I say put more MI-35 calibre choppers as mandatory aviation choppers for Navy


It is not just the question of covering with a tarpaulin it just covers the aircraft when parked on the deck. People residing on the sea coast experience their silverware turning slightly dark and the cars rusting much earlier. This is due to salt in the air itself.

Marine operations require naval air crafts to spend most of the operational life over the sea. In the search & rescue role; being one of the main tasks of the Sea King; helo needs to hover just above the sea surface. Hence the whole frame as well as the rotor blades is exposed to salt water spray. Additionally, operating close to sea surface also results in some salt water spray ingestion in the turbine engine.

In my humble opinion, neither Mi-17 nor Mi-35 is suitable for maritime duties without modification. It would severely curtail operational life span of the helicopter.
 
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Good information never knew , why people went for these and not land based choppers on ships

However in Pakistan's case if we have no options I think we would be ok to maintain these choppers with wash down and cover ups at sea bound ships, a simple plastic cover sheet over blades and engine should be enough for accidental splash of sea water

The whole folding the blades perhaps seems nice idea for Air craft carriers which we don't have to begin with

99% of times sea water would not be hitting the chopper anyways as sea is relatively calm

If we have no choice , I say put more MI-35 calibre choppers as mandatory aviation choppers for Navy
A simple wash down and cover up just won't cut it bro. There is a reason the majority of navies use dedicated navalised helicopters for operating off their ships, land helos just aren't up to the task. And folding blades aren't simply a "nice idea" but a necessity even more so on a smaller ship how else to you suppose these helos get into the aviation hanger of your ships?
 
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The Chinese naval helicopter seem pretty nice have they been evaluated?
 
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Good information never knew , why people went for these and not land based choppers on ships

However in Pakistan's case if we have no options I think we would be ok to maintain these choppers with wash down and cover ups at sea bound ships, a simple plastic cover sheet over blades and engine should be enough for accidental splash of sea water

The whole folding the blades perhaps seems nice idea for Air craft carriers which we don't have to begin with

99% of times sea water would not be hitting the chopper anyways as sea is relatively calm

If we have no choice , I say put more MI-35 calibre choppers as mandatory aviation choppers for Navy

-Accidental splash of sea water is not just it bro, salty winds can cause a lot of problems and is infact the main problems. If you visit to homes next to seas, you'll find pretty much everything, from television sets to automobiles, rusty. Salty winds from seas are a major concern even for custom built maritime helicopters, let alone ordinary ones.

So simply covering the helis won't work

Folding of helicopter blades isn't a nice idea for aircraft carriers only, but for pretty much any naval platform. Interestingly, an aircraft carrier is where you can "live without" folding blades, cause they can afford to have more space, whereas in other naval platforms, that isn't the case. The helicopter deck and hangar are the most spacious space in these vessels. So folding blades are mandatory.

-Another important characteristic of Naval helicopter is a strengthened undercarriage. A ship in a sea is not a stationary platform, it can move up and down. The helicopter must withstand the impact of a helipad hitting against it. So we are looking at a major structural redesign here

-An another problem with the Mi-17/8 and Mi-35 helis are, with a load in them, they cannot take off without taxing. This is a total no-go for Naval helis.

-Most basic issue is that, Mi-17/8 won't simply fit into your ships! The rotor diameters are atleast 3 meters greater for the Hips than the Sea Kings.
 
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News is Indian Navy have selected Sikorsky S-70B to replace their Sea Kings. A total of 16 S-70B's will be purchased in the initial phase.
 
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News is Indian Navy have selected Sikorsky S-70B to replace their Sea Kings. A total of 16 S-70B's will be purchased in the initial phase.
16 with an option for 8 more, the total requirement is for around 100 of these birds within 7-8 years a separate tender is on for the next, much larger, deal of NMRH.
 
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Couple of options here but it all depends on money and seller willing to sell us

On Military section of this page, there is H-3, H-92

Sikorsky Products

NH90 is a good replacement of Sea King

Cold weather - NHIndustries

Also, since we have Westland built Sea Kings, Westland's AW101 is a good replacement too.

Illegal Request

All expensive, all sanctions prone. Dont know if Chinese have replacement thats perfect for Sea King.
 
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The Chinese naval helicopter seem pretty nice have they been evaluated?

Pakistan already operates Chinese Z-9 Helicopter on F-22 frigates. Z-9 is based upon SA-365N Dauphin. Sea King is much larger. Max T.O. weight of Z-9 is 4,100 Kg whereas Sea King Max T.O. weight is 9,700 Kg.

Larger Naval helos of PLAN are Russian Kamov Ka-28 & Kamov Ka- 31. Indian Navy employs both the Kamov as well as Sea King. Sea King is being replaced by SA-70B not by additional Kamovs, and I am sure for a good reason.
 
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How about
Harbin Z-20 ?
Status: prototype.

Rather Z-18 or AC-313 (both in service)

China unveils ASW version of Z-18 helicopter - IHS Jane's 360
Changhe Z-18 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Avicopter AC313 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan already operates Chinese Z-9 Helicopter on F-22 frigates. Z-9 is based upon SA-365N Dauphin. Sea King is much larger. Max T.O. weight of Z-9 is 4,100 Kg whereas Sea King Max T.O. weight is 9,700 Kg.

Larger Naval helos of PLAN are Russian Kamov Ka-28 & Kamov Ka- 31. Indian Navy employs both the Kamov as well as Sea King. Sea King is being replaced by SA-70B not by additional Kamovs, and I am sure for a good reason.

Mi-14 is a Mi-8 derivative from the 1970s. Mi-38 is intended replacement of Mi-8 and Mi-17.
Mi-38. See also p 2 of this thread.
 
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Status: prototype.

Rather Z-18 or AC-313 (both in service)

China unveils ASW version of Z-18 helicopter - IHS Jane's 360
Changhe Z-18 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Avicopter AC313 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Mi-14 is a Mi-8 derivative from the 1970s. Mi-38 is intended replacement of Mi-8 and Mi-17.
Mi-38. See also p 2 of this thread.

Will these Heli's not require a bigger platform to land then what is currently on the PN frigates?

IMO if these are land based and for search and rescue then these might be considered.

Z-9B along with Z-9W are the ones that would be based on the PN ships.
 
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Will these Heli's not require a bigger platform to land then what is currently on the PN frigates?

IMO if these are land based and for search and rescue then these might be considered.

Z-9B along with Z-9W are the ones that would be based on the PN ships.
Seakings r also land-based.

AW139 armed prototype could be one option.we should talk to the italians. Or opt for the chinese platform with western avionics and weapons fit.
 
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Will these Heli's not require a bigger platform to land then what is currently on the PN frigates?

IMO if these are land based and for search and rescue then these might be considered.

Z-9B along with Z-9W are the ones that would be based on the PN ships.

The Sikorski S-60/S-70 Blackhawk/SeaHawk was designed as SH-3 Sea King replacement and has the same footprint.

Aerospatiale SA321 Super Frelon (aka Z-8, which is base to Z-18 and AC313)
General characteristics

  • Crew: five
  • Capacity:
    • 27 passengers or
    • 15 stretchers
  • Length: 23.03 m (75 ft 6⅝ in)
  • Rotor diameter: 18.90 m (62 ft 0 in)
  • Height: 6.66 m (21 ft 10¼ in)
  • Disc area: 280.6 m² (3,019 ft²)
  • Empty weight: 6,863 kg (15,130 lb)
  • Max. takeoff weight: 13,000 kg (28,660 lb)
  • Powerplant: Three × Turboméca Turmo IIIC turboshafts, 1,171 kW (1,570 hp) each

Sikorski SH-3 Sea King
General characteristics

  • Crew: four (two pilots, two ASW systems operators)
  • Capacity: three passengers
  • Length: 54 ft 9 in (16.7 m)
  • Rotor diameter: 62 ft (19 m)
  • Height: 16 ft 10 in (5.13 m)
  • Disc area: ft² (m²)
  • Empty weight: 11,865 lb (5,382 kg)
  • Loaded weight: 18,626 lb (8,449 kg)
  • Max. takeoff weight: 22,050 lb (10,000 kg)
  • Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T58-GE-10 turboshafts, 1,400 shp (1045 kW) each
Sikorski SH-60
General characteristics

  • Crew: 3–4
  • Capacity: 5 passengers in cabin, slung load of 6,000 lb (2,700 kg) or internal load of 4,100 lb (1,900 kg) for B, F and H models; and 11 passengers or slung load of 9,000 lb (4,100 kg) for S-model
  • Length: 64 ft 8 in (19.75 m)
  • Rotor diameter: 53 ft 8 in (16.35 m)
  • Height: 17 ft 2 in (5.2 m)
  • Disc area: 2,262 ft² (210 m²)
  • Empty weight: 15,200 lb (6,895 kg)
  • Loaded weight: 17,758 lb (8,055 kg) ; for ASW mission
  • Useful load: 6,684 lb (3,031 kg)
  • Max. takeoff weight: 21,884 lb (9,927 kg)
  • Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-401C turboshaft, 1,890 shp (1,410 kW) take-off power each

The SuperFrelon and SeaHawk have similar fuselage length.
Super Frelon and Sea King have similar rotor diameter.

Perry class can handle both SeaKing and SeaHawk in terms of flight deck and hangar space. I'm pretty sure the RN would have given Type 21 a SeaKing capable flight deck, even if it's hangar would typically house an organic SeaLynx.

You have to keep in mind that in many navies the bigger heli's are used by AOR's (replenishment ships) for VERTREP. You don't necessarily house them on a frigate.

3301962548_04e96848c8.jpg

Helidecks HMS Arrow (Type 21) versus HMS Sheffield (Type 42)


type42-d80-f173-2.jpg

Same ships with SH-3 Sea King

york_austin_ocean_hr.jpg

Type 42 batch 3 with Sea King.

type053h3_jiangwei_09large1.jpg

Type 53H3 (F22P precursor) with Z-8 / Super Frelon

2bd1f4c1db80c35630fe469bceb3910f_zpseeee722c.jpg%7Eoriginal

F-22P with Sea King
 
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