Replacement of Pakistan Army's G-3 Rifles.

[Zarvan]

Is it still same committee from 2008 or did this search for replacement was done several times over by now?

No committee was formed than only recently it has been formed and now they will start testing Guns

 

[asad71]

7.62 x51mm vs 5.56 x45mm .... yeah sure.


There is a good reason nato hates 5.56 in A'stan.

1.In recent times security forces have discovered that the smaller bore isn't ideal for CQB and anti-insurgency. You need to kill the target twice. That's why they are clamoring to get back to the 7.62 which ensures a kill in one shot. The idea of injuring the enemy to cause logistic problem isn't totally correct. Insurgents will leave an injured or kill him to prevent capture.
2. With the naked eye a trained soldier can hit the bull's eye at 300 yds max - irrespective of what rifle he is using. So it would be prudent to spend funds on GPMG, RPG, MANPAD and other infantry weapons to give infantry platoons, coys and Bns more fire power.

 

[tigerrock ali]

Blackwater, nice name.

I don't think we would provide you the M4.

Who needs that piece of hunk metal anyway? In my opinion m4 is crap.

 

[SpectreRain]

7.62 does do a lot of damage. But in order to make a choice I think HK-417 it is. Looks nice as well.

 

[Zarvan]

7.62 does do a lot of damage. But in order to make a choice I think HK-417 it is. Looks nice as well.

After recent development and agreement with Germany with HIT. I think HK-417 being produced at POF WAH is quite possible

 

[Maarkhoor]

Any rifle Pakistan army select will be produce locally under license, i think in that sense German rifles are great like
Heckler & Koch G36
Variants[edit]

A G36KV as delivered to the Latvian Army. It is configured with a telescopic stock and a Picatinny sight rail

G36A2 with a Zeiss RSA reflex sight and an AG36 grenade launcher on display as part of Germany's IdZmodernization program

An Malaysian Navy diver fromPASKAL armed with a G36C in 57th Malaysian National Day. It is configured with birdcage flash suppressor and a buttstock short with cheek rest.

• G36V (V—Variante "variant"): Previously known as the G36E (E—Export), it is the export version of the standard G36. The G36V has all of the characteristics of the standard rifle with the exception of the sight setup and bayonet mount. It is fitted with a x1.5 or x3 sight and lacks the integrated reflex sight; the bayonet mount is a standard NATO type. This version was produced for Spain and Latvia.

• MG36 (MG—Maschinengewehr "machine gun"): Light machine gun version of the G36 equipped with a heavy barrel for increased heat and cook-offresistance.[2] The MG36 and MG36E are no longer offered by H&K.

• G36K (K—kurz "short"): carbine variant with a shorter barrel (fitted with an open-type flash suppressor) and a shorter forend, which includes a bottom rail that can be used to attach tactical accessories, such as a UTL flashlight from the USPpistol. The carbine's barrel lacks the ability to launch rifle grenades and it will not support a bayonet. The weapon retained the ability to be used with the AG36 grenade launcher. G36Ks in service with German special forces are issued with a 100-round C-Mag drum. There are two variants of the G36K. The first and most commonly known has x3 scope/carry handle attached to the top, while the second is the one with the iron sights and rail (no scope included).

• G36KV (formerly G36KE): export version of carbine variant, G36K with sights like G36V.

• G36C (C="Compact", commonly mistaken for "Commando", a term trademarked by Colt Firearms for the CAR-15): This subcarbine model is a further development of the G36K. It has a shorter barrel than the G36K, and a four-prong open-type flash hider or a birdcage type flash hider. The extremely short barrel forced designers to move the gas block closer to the muzzle end and reduce the length of the gas piston operating rod. The handguard and stock were also shortened and the fixed carry handle (with optics) was replaced with a carrying handle with an integrated MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail. The dual optical sight found on the standard G36 and G36K models was replaced with a set of rail-mounted detachable iron sights that consist of a semi-shrouded front post and a flip-up rear sight with two apertures of different diameter. The short handguard has four accessory attachment points, one of which could be used for a vertical grip. The G36C was developed and produced in January 2001.

• G36A2: This is an ordnance designation allocated to an upgraded variant of the G36 used by the German Army. The G36A2 is equipped with a quick-detachable Zeiss RSA reflex red dot sight[30] mounted on a Picatinny rail that replaces the original red dot sight of the dual combat sighting system. The G36A2 upgrade kit also consists of the shorter G36C stock (Designed for better handling with use ofbody armor and load bearing equipment), new handguard made of aluminium (provides better heat resistance during long periods of firing) with an optional 4 Picatinny rails and a vertical foregrip with an integrated switch for operating an Oerlikon Contraves LLM01 laser light module.[31]

 

[SpectreRain]

After recent development and agreement with Germany with HIT. I think HK-417 being produced at POF WAH is quite possible

Interesting. Good to know.

Any rifle Pakistan army select will be produce locally under license, i think in that sense German rifles are great like
Heckler & Koch G36

G36 is also another good option. Reliable German engineering.

 

[barbarosa]

long barrel rifle is batter than short barrel. In the case of war on border long barrel rifle is useful and in the case of war on terror then short barrel rifle is suitable, because war on terror often fights in the streets roads markets and populated areas.

 

[Zarvan]

Any rifle Pakistan army select will be produce locally under license, i think in that sense German rifles are great like
Heckler & Koch G36
Variants[edit]

A G36KV as delivered to the Latvian Army. It is configured with a telescopic stock and a Picatinny sight rail

G36A2 with a Zeiss RSA reflex sight and an AG36 grenade launcher on display as part of Germany's IdZmodernization program

An Malaysian Navy diver fromPASKAL armed with a G36C in 57th Malaysian National Day. It is configured with birdcage flash suppressor and a buttstock short with cheek rest.

• G36V (V—Variante "variant"): Previously known as the G36E (E—Export), it is the export version of the standard G36. The G36V has all of the characteristics of the standard rifle with the exception of the sight setup and bayonet mount. It is fitted with a x1.5 or x3 sight and lacks the integrated reflex sight; the bayonet mount is a standard NATO type. This version was produced for Spain and Latvia.

• MG36 (MG—Maschinengewehr "machine gun"): Light machine gun version of the G36 equipped with a heavy barrel for increased heat and cook-offresistance.[2] The MG36 and MG36E are no longer offered by H&K.

• G36K (K—kurz "short"): carbine variant with a shorter barrel (fitted with an open-type flash suppressor) and a shorter forend, which includes a bottom rail that can be used to attach tactical accessories, such as a UTL flashlight from the USPpistol. The carbine's barrel lacks the ability to launch rifle grenades and it will not support a bayonet. The weapon retained the ability to be used with the AG36 grenade launcher. G36Ks in service with German special forces are issued with a 100-round C-Mag drum. There are two variants of the G36K. The first and most commonly known has x3 scope/carry handle attached to the top, while the second is the one with the iron sights and rail (no scope included).

• G36KV (formerly G36KE): export version of carbine variant, G36K with sights like G36V.

• G36C (C="Compact", commonly mistaken for "Commando", a term trademarked by Colt Firearms for the CAR-15): This subcarbine model is a further development of the G36K. It has a shorter barrel than the G36K, and a four-prong open-type flash hider or a birdcage type flash hider. The extremely short barrel forced designers to move the gas block closer to the muzzle end and reduce the length of the gas piston operating rod. The handguard and stock were also shortened and the fixed carry handle (with optics) was replaced with a carrying handle with an integrated MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail. The dual optical sight found on the standard G36 and G36K models was replaced with a set of rail-mounted detachable iron sights that consist of a semi-shrouded front post and a flip-up rear sight with two apertures of different diameter. The short handguard has four accessory attachment points, one of which could be used for a vertical grip. The G36C was developed and produced in January 2001.

• G36A2: This is an ordnance designation allocated to an upgraded variant of the G36 used by the German Army. The G36A2 is equipped with a quick-detachable Zeiss RSA reflex red dot sight[30] mounted on a Picatinny rail that replaces the original red dot sight of the dual combat sighting system. The G36A2 upgrade kit also consists of the shorter G36C stock (Designed for better handling with use ofbody armor and load bearing equipment), new handguard made of aluminium (provides better heat resistance during long periods of firing) with an optional 4 Picatinny rails and a vertical foregrip with an integrated switch for operating an Oerlikon Contraves LLM01 laser light module.[31]

HK G36 has turned out to be disaster even Germans hate it and are replacing it with HK-416 and HK-417 @SpectreRain

 

[ConcealCarry]

Last I updated myself on the gun, it had some problems, not sure what's the status now.

German Bundeswehr confirms G36 issues

Any rifle Pakistan army select will be produce locally under license, i think in that sense German rifles are great like
Heckler & Koch G36
Variants[edit]

A G36KV as delivered to the Latvian Army. It is configured with a telescopic stock and a Picatinny sight rail

G36A2 with a Zeiss RSA reflex sight and an AG36 grenade launcher on display as part of Germany's IdZmodernization program

An Malaysian Navy diver fromPASKAL armed with a G36C in 57th Malaysian National Day. It is configured with birdcage flash suppressor and a buttstock short with cheek rest.

• G36V (V—Variante "variant"): Previously known as the G36E (E—Export), it is the export version of the standard G36. The G36V has all of the characteristics of the standard rifle with the exception of the sight setup and bayonet mount. It is fitted with a x1.5 or x3 sight and lacks the integrated reflex sight; the bayonet mount is a standard NATO type. This version was produced for Spain and Latvia.

• MG36 (MG—Maschinengewehr "machine gun"): Light machine gun version of the G36 equipped with a heavy barrel for increased heat and cook-offresistance.[2] The MG36 and MG36E are no longer offered by H&K.

• G36K (K—kurz "short"): carbine variant with a shorter barrel (fitted with an open-type flash suppressor) and a shorter forend, which includes a bottom rail that can be used to attach tactical accessories, such as a UTL flashlight from the USPpistol. The carbine's barrel lacks the ability to launch rifle grenades and it will not support a bayonet. The weapon retained the ability to be used with the AG36 grenade launcher. G36Ks in service with German special forces are issued with a 100-round C-Mag drum. There are two variants of the G36K. The first and most commonly known has x3 scope/carry handle attached to the top, while the second is the one with the iron sights and rail (no scope included).

• G36KV (formerly G36KE): export version of carbine variant, G36K with sights like G36V.

• G36C (C="Compact", commonly mistaken for "Commando", a term trademarked by Colt Firearms for the CAR-15): This subcarbine model is a further development of the G36K. It has a shorter barrel than the G36K, and a four-prong open-type flash hider or a birdcage type flash hider. The extremely short barrel forced designers to move the gas block closer to the muzzle end and reduce the length of the gas piston operating rod. The handguard and stock were also shortened and the fixed carry handle (with optics) was replaced with a carrying handle with an integrated MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail. The dual optical sight found on the standard G36 and G36K models was replaced with a set of rail-mounted detachable iron sights that consist of a semi-shrouded front post and a flip-up rear sight with two apertures of different diameter. The short handguard has four accessory attachment points, one of which could be used for a vertical grip. The G36C was developed and produced in January 2001.

• G36A2: This is an ordnance designation allocated to an upgraded variant of the G36 used by the German Army. The G36A2 is equipped with a quick-detachable Zeiss RSA reflex red dot sight[30] mounted on a Picatinny rail that replaces the original red dot sight of the dual combat sighting system. The G36A2 upgrade kit also consists of the shorter G36C stock (Designed for better handling with use ofbody armor and load bearing equipment), new handguard made of aluminium (provides better heat resistance during long periods of firing) with an optional 4 Picatinny rails and a vertical foregrip with an integrated switch for operating an Oerlikon Contraves LLM01 laser light module.[31]

 

[Zarvan]

Last I updated myself on the gun, it had some problems, not sure what's the status now.

German Bundeswehr confirms G36 issues

They are replacing it

 

[Benign Persona]

With the Pakistan Army looking into acquiring a new standard issue rifle (or rifles), it would be a good idea to build an understanding of how the Army might evaluate each of its options. At present, it seems that the Army has shortlisted its final options to the following rifles: The FN Herstal SCAR H, CZ-806 BREN 2, Zastava M21 (or M77), Beretta ARX-200, and Kalashnikov AK-103.

The SCAR H, ARX-200 and Zastava M77 (if it is not M21) are chambered for using 7.62x51mm NATO rounds. On the other hand, the AK-103 is built for 7.62x39mm rounds. The CZ-806 BREN 2 is less clear because the only version that is known to the public uses 5.56x45mm NATO rounds; but given the competition, the rifle present in Pakistan have been chambered for either 7.62x51mm or 7.62x39mm.

This article will not make a recommendation, but rather, it will offer a few insights into the factors that might influence the Army’s final decision. It must be noted that changing one’s standard issue rifle, i.e. the rifle given to each and every soldier in need of one, is a significant step. If successful, a program of this nature would only happen once in a generation; if it fails, it can be a very expensive headache.

For some background, the Pakistan Army initiated its rifle evaluation program in November 2015. At the time, it had gotten in touch with a number of overseas small-arms vendors. By the end of January 2016, it had begun testing the weapons listed above.

Specific details regarding the program, such as the budget, timeline and scope, were not disclosed by the Army or Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR). But given the range of weapons being tested, it seems the focus may be on replacing the Heckler & Koch (HK) G3 7.62x51mm NATO battle rifle and the NORINCO Type 56 7.62x39mm assault rifle (a licensed Chinese clone of the Kalashnikov AK-47).

With this in mind, it is important to consider how the Pakistan Army presently utilizes its two main rifles. The HK G3 is primarily issued to infantry facing the eastern front. The Type 56 has been popular with Army troops engaged in counterinsurgency (COIN) operations in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA).

The first question that may arise is whether this new rifle – especially one that has a design that can be chambered for different rounds – will replace both the Type 56 and G3, or simply one of them. An additional possibility would be the selection of two different designs. While redundancy is an issue from a cost perspective, the approach would enable the Army to meet distinct operational needs without partly compromising one need in order to fulfill the other.

That said, some designs, such as the SCAR and BREN, offer a level of modularity that aims to mitigate the need for multiple distinct systems. For example, the FN SCAR can be chambered for different rounds, which could be used to build weapons suited for specialized tasks and markets. The SCAR-series, which is includes the SCAR H, a 7.62x51mm battle rifle, could be adapted into the 5.56x45mm SCAR L assault rifle, which one might market to law enforcement agencies. Alternatively, the SCAR H itself could be re-adapted into the Sniper Support Unit (SSU), a designated marksman rifle (DMR). Such modularity could position a core design as an effective solution for multiple environments and scenarios provided the right sub-variant is used (e.g. SCAR H, SCAR L, etc).

In terms of the Army’s requirements, the rifle (or rifles) cannot fail in the multitude of environmental conditions the Pakistan Army operates in, such as the hot and arid Thar Desert of Sindh (or freezing peaks of Siachin), the plains of Punjab, as well as the diverse hills, mountains and valleys throughout Baluchistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, the Northern Areas, and Kashmir. Durability and reliability in these regions (and during all seasons) will be critical, the Army cannot afford (operationally and financially) to compromise.

Performance will be the critical benchmark in the Army’s final decision, but the question of cost needs to be discussed as well. At the end of the day, the Army’s budget for arms is finite, hence it is generally steered towards cost-sensitive solutions. This is plainly evident in almost all of the Army’s big-ticket acquisitions. However, given that there are at least two relatively expensive options being evaluated, i.e. the FN SCAR H and Beretta ARX 200, it is possible that there is a level of flexibility the Army is willing to tolerate in terms of cost.

The rationale (for being cost-flexible) could stem from wanting to ensure that the rifle could dependably serve the Army for at least as many decades as the HK G3. Moreover, the Army is not going to induct hundreds of thousands of rifles in the short-term. If anything, it would have to worry about the up-front costs of acquiring the necessary technology, intellectual property, and commercial rights of the winning candidate. Beyond that, it would basically induct its rifles on a relatively incremental and gradual basis, e.g. 10-15,000 rifles per year with occasional increases on good funding years. In other words, while the selection of an expensive rifle may be costly in relative terms (compared to more affordable alternatives), it may not be a comparatively costly exercise (compared to revamping one’s attack helicopter fleet).

Another angle to consider is that of commercial viability. General Raheel Sharif has been a vocal proponent of building Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF)’s commercial competitiveness. The capacity to offer a premium weapon could be seen as a means to boost POF’s profile in the global arms industry. Not only would the production of a premium product help POF net higher revenues (and potentially healthier profit-margins), but it would also prepare it for the global small-arms market of the future when the high-end arms of today could potentially become the mainstay arms of tomorrow.
http://quwa.org/2016/03/21/rifle-will-pakistan-army-choose/

 

[Maj.Osmani]

@Zarvan

 

[Zarvan]

@Horus Sir do you have any latest info on Gun trials ? @balixd

 

[C130]

why wasn't the Galil ACE evaluated