Replacement for Retired/Old PAF Jets | Food for Thought

[Saquib]

iInstead of buying why not just Invest in improving the JF-17 especially design and invest in creating a new engine which is the weakest link in the JF-17 as they are Russian!

 

[Paksanity]

Let me do some calculations! 450 aircrafts is a good number for PAF. 100 F-16s. 200 JF-17s & 150 anonymous 4.5th & 5th generation aircrafts can settle the scores. We have to arrange funds for these procurements. Another decade of procurement will shape the real picture of modern PAF.

450 is a large number and our present economy can not sustain this. If economy takes off then it is a reasonable number against 750 of India and gives us roughly 1:1.25 against them assuming some 200 remain for China etc. Perhaps 400 could be managed if economy gets a good run for 5 consecutive years. For 450, you have to average 7%+ for 15 years plus.

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

450 is a large number and our present economy can not sustain this. If economy takes off then it is a reasonable number against 750 of India and gives us roughly 1:1.25 against them assuming some 200 remain for China etc. Perhaps 400 could be managed if economy gets a good run for 5 consecutive years. For 450, you have to average 7%+ for 15 years plus.

InshaAllah some good news will be broadcasted regarding this issue. Economy will also be stabilized inshaAllah.

iInstead of buying why not just Invest in improving the JF-17 especially design and invest in creating a new engine which is the weakest link in the JF-17 as they are Russian!

Engine is being upgraded with the joint efforts of Pakistan & China. They will increase its Mach speed to 2.0+

 

[volatile]

JF-17 Thunder is our destiny. We will keep it evolving according to our needs. We can start a new fighter aircraft probably a medium weight or a heavy weight. JF-17 can offer us AESA, IRST & all modern sub-systems which a 4.5th Gen jet can offer. We can make it a modern 4.5th Gen jet and once we induct Thunder with IRST, our US friends will also offer us F-16V kits for our Block-52s.

Heavyweight fighter is needed due to extended sea shelf & multiple sea ports. Navy should be provided with a sensible air cover. F-16 Block-52 is not a bad or obsolete aircraft. Its radar & avionics are close to any modern jet. F-16V will solve all questions raised on this potent fighter. JF-17 is still in evolution process & its a proven BVR platform which is going into AESA club very soon inshaAllah. Lets see what other 4.5th Gen jet PAF will procure or prepare for its inventory.

Tell you the truth i am very disappointed in 8 block 52 with so much fuss and every thing ,Had it been F16 V it would have punched the AF to new level ,what i understand after last decade or so Americans are still the tech visionaries with Russian keeping up fast chinese are good in getting it done cheaply but originality is still missing .e.g 150 JF 17 all with block 3 specs are decent platform ,F16 V will rule the skies over South Asia until FGFA or to some extent Rafale is also a wonderful plane .
I know these are rough estimates and one can always correct these .

F16 V new 20 = 2 Billion at least (2 Years 1 Billion/year)
F16 52 converted to V (80) = 80 Block 52 (MLU will be around 3 Billion (spread over 2 years) = 1.5 Billion/year
JF17 with Average price after block 3 = 40 Mil US$ = 40 X 150 = 6 Billion (spread over 8-10 years) 600 Mil/year

so roughly budget of PAF is b/w 1-2 Billion US $ .I dont know how much is sanctioned PAF squadrons or fighters ,the way i see it ,it will be difficult to induct 100 5th Gen platform since on average cost over 100 Mil this is 10 Bil US $ we are talking over induction time .

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

Tell you the truth i am very disappointed in 8 block 52 with so much fuss and every thing ,Had it been F16 V it would have punched the AF to new level ,what i understand after last decade or so Americans are still the tech visionaries with Russian keeping up fast chinese are good in getting it done cheaply but originality is still missing .e.g 150 JF 17 all with block 3 specs are decent platform ,F16 V will rule the skies over South Asia until FGFA or to some extent Rafale is also a wonderful plane .
I know these are rough estimates and one can always correct these .

F16 V new 20 = 2 Billion at least (2 Years 1 Billion/year)
F16 52 converted to V (80) = 80 Block 52 (MLU will be around 3 Billion (spread over 2 years) = 1.5 Billion/year
JF17 with Average price after block 3 = 40 Mil US$ = 40 X 150 = 6 Billion (spread over 8-10 years) 600 Mil/year

so roughly budget of PAF is b/w 1-2 Billion US $ .I dont know how much is sanctioned PAF squadrons or fighters ,the way i see it ,it will be difficult to induct 100 5th Gen platform since on average cost over 100 Mil this is 10 Bil US $ we are talking over induction time .

Your concerns are true. Budget is a serious issue but we have to deal with issues in order to defend our skies. PAF can induct AESA platform in less than 2 years inshaAllah. Rafaels delivery start in same timeframe. Hope for the best. PAF is planning something. JF-17 Block-III will be a surprise

 

[Zibago]

JF-17 is the only replacement for them

 

[volatile]

Your concerns are true. Budget is a serious issue but we have to deal with issues in order to defend our skies. PAF can induct AESA platform in less than 2 years inshaAllah. Rafaels delivery start in same timeframe. Hope for the best. PAF is planning something. JF-17 Block-III will be a surprise

Inshallah but for Rafael F16V should take care of it remember F16 gave a tough competition to F35 in some fights .I think stealth or no stealth future is data fusion between Air/Ground all assets if PAF can do that in great synergy it will be a game changer for our defence .FC31 we need to start working on it there should nt be no doubt bring Turkey in the programe but after F17 ,F31 is the future .Try to bring it costs to 50 to 70 Mil US$

 

[Saquib]

InshaAllah some good news will be broadcasted regarding this issue. Economy will also be stabilized inshaAllah.


Engine is being upgraded with the joint efforts of Pakistan & China. They will increase its Mach speed to 2.0+

When this engine is ready; PAF should concentrate on developing future tactics for air to air and ground combat, instead of buying F-16s or worrying about disparity with India!

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

When this engine is ready; PAF should concentrate on developing future tactics for air to air and ground combat, instead of buying F-16s or worrying about disparity with India!

Thunder is already inducted in Combat Commanders School. InshaAllah they will develop tactics on it and will exploit its complete potential.

 

[Masterhunter]

Tell you the truth i am very disappointed in 8 block 52 with so much fuss and every thing ,Had it been F16 V it would have punched the AF to new level ,what i understand after last decade or so Americans are still the tech visionaries with Russian keeping up fast chinese are good in getting it done cheaply but originality is still missing .e.g 150 JF 17 all with block 3 specs are decent platform ,F16 V will rule the skies over South Asia until FGFA or to some extent Rafale is also a wonderful plane .
I know these are rough estimates and one can always correct these .

F16 V new 20 = 2 Billion at least (2 Years 1 Billion/year)
F16 52 converted to V (80) = 80 Block 52 (MLU will be around 3 Billion (spread over 2 years) = 1.5 Billion/year
JF17 with Average price after block 3 = 40 Mil US$ = 40 X 150 = 6 Billion (spread over 8-10 years) 600 Mil/year

so roughly budget of PAF is b/w 1-2 Billion US $ .I dont know how much is sanctioned PAF squadrons or fighters ,the way i see it ,it will be difficult to induct 100 5th Gen platform since on average cost over 100 Mil this is 10 Bil US $ we are talking over induction time .

Mate...
Fifth Gen will cost not you less than 200M dollar a plane (including training and MRO).. Your own calculations said F16 as 100M dollar each. To buy 100 planes, u need need 20billion dollar.
With PAF budget of 2 billion, its budget for capex may not be more than 500-750M, with acquistion of JF17 in process, PAF hardly have budget to acquire any fifth Gen unless provided as aid. U need at least four planes/year to have effective acquisition. Possibility of buying 36 planes (2 sqn) is a better option and is possible, if budget improves.

 

[untitled]

@Ghazwa e Hind what do you have on your mind besides F-16V?

 

[fatman17]

If Pakistan Can Buy 8 F-16 From US with the Price tag of $70.8 Million per jet then why not we go for Su-35?? For Mirage Replacement? Will serve us better in Air superiority role and Naval wing more payload more range etc etc ...

2 Squads will do the Job for Both Air Force and Naval Wing (Su-35 and JF-17)

EF-2000 is very expensive
J-11 is for Exports? Will Russia allows China to Export it?
8 F-16 we are getting is Block 52+ so means US is not ready to give F-16 V although F-16 V is F-16 Block 52+ with Radar AESA

Just a thought

The price tag is around 50 mill $ for the aircraft. The rest is extras

 

[Quwa]

It's important to keep in mind that PAC will be producing JF-17s for a very long time. So while the current roadmap has 150 fighters in the pipeline, expect the PAF to acquire a lot more JF-17s over the lifespan of the program.

 

[Tipu7]

It's important to keep in mind that PAC will be producing JF-17s for a very long time. So while the current roadmap has 150 fighters in the pipeline, expect the PAF to acquire a lot more JF-17s over the lifespan of the program.

Most probability is we will see more blocks of Jf17 also joint production of J31...... using western packages available, Pakistan can turn J31 into a potent aircraft, even better than Chinese counterpart......

 

[fatman17]

PAF inventory in the near term
100 F16s
150 JF17s
40 Mirage Rose
50 F7PG