Reorientation And Restructuring of Pakistan Army

[Rafi]

Ok, before someone starts getting the wrong picture i must clarify that the points raised by the retd officer and the recommendations thereof are very valid, it's only that i want to show the other side of the picture so that the begairat brigade (FTW Agno ) should not get carried away because these things are easier said than done.

i am just trying to balance it out, leaving the readers to decide what's best for this military.


Though i agree with the suggestion but then my concerns are as follows:

In an idealized situation there should be one man for one job. Many professions today are able to follow this, still many others cant. Ask a cashier at a bank, he has been counting money since he was recruited and still doing the same one thing. Ask any other guy in the same bank what 'new' thing has he done today? How many executive decisions has he taken today? Even the manager has to make one odd difficult decision every 6 months or so, like making a fake/temporary credit receipt for some student who want to study abroad or to approve a loan to someone not exactly worthy of it. Rest, it's same old routine. The Audit Officer at any place has to check the ledgers everywhere, the engineers and technicians would also do the same thing except if some fault occurs somewhere, even then there are standard procedures to follow to troubleshoot some machinery, even doctors these days work with routines - cough, ok XYZ syrup, loose motions, flagyl zindabad, cant find something bad, write them a few tests, let the science find out what's wrong with you, except ofcourse specialists especially surgeons. Scientists/researchers are another exception and also those who create are part of this league.

In the (Pakistan) Army, one has to experience almost every thing possible starting from professional responsibilities till designing flower pots. The Army's demands are versatile and sometime unprofessional. Though these may at times, and as pointed out by the writer, be detrimental towards the professional outlook of a soldier but then keeping view the paucity of resources and funds, the high standards (of results) that are required to be maintained and to keep the begairat brigade at length, sometimes such things are necessarily done.

For instance, what would your boss do if he wants to throw a party for you guys or have a musical gala arranged? First, he would not do it. With almost all of his employees residing in the same city with their families who wants 'by order entertainment' on Chand Raats? Then with a Eid Bonus and 3-5 days Eid leaves when can always go attend a live concert anywhere. But if he decides to do it, he would simply get some hall or hotel lounge booked or arrange for a third party transporter to carry you guys if it had to be outdoors or ask you guys to drive to the place. He would get a caterer and tell him what you guys would like to eat. The decoration guys would make the place glittering and shining, huge sound systems would be rented, some stage-managers would look into the stage presentation and so on and so forth. Ofcourse he will not ask you guys to bring your own chairs or assist the decors or see if the caterers are making a guud food. He would do this because he can afford it or the company can afford it. The richer the donor the better it would get.

But things dont work like this in the Army. First, only 1/15th of the total men in a unit are living with their families inside the cantts, the rest are away from theirs atleast since 3-4 months. They cant go on leave either because someone has to stay awake. So even if it is Eid or some other event, we guys like the Police, Railways, transporters, some doctors, factory/productions lines stay on duty. Ofcourse their numbers and ours varry. That soldier who has been away from his family since last ten years and only visits them on quarterly basis and was guarding the mosque where Eid prayers were held the same morning and was then standing sentry at various locations inside the cantt and would do the same at night and the officers and men who were with the QRF/IRF to counter any untoward incident and those who were in uniform, and the Eid day or 14 August or any other such day was just any other routine day for them, and those who cant even leave the cantt and go get something guud to eat from the outside without an Out-Pass etc surely deserve some entertainment. Those men who get up at 4 in the morning and till the sun sets would be either in uniform firing/maintaining a weapon or tracksuite mowing some lawn/digging some dirt, those who would never had got a chance since years to go for hoteling and those whose wives and daughters did not go to meena bazars as the soldier was on duty sure deserve something better. You and may be to an extent the Officer lot, may be able to enjoy such life. i mean i can go out of the cantt at will, i have wheels and can go 80 kms away, eat guud food and come back with an hour if i am required to, but a soldier cant do it, he doesnt own a car nor does he can afford or spare time for such luxuries.

So the Army plans that in order to give the families residing in the cantt the feel of chand raat, a meena bazar (for ladies) should be planned and that a Tambola session can be held so that all can get together in a free and easy environment away from the routine senior junior stuff and that may be a small function can be held. Now one can take the same steps as did your boss to arrange a guud night, but then the budget and your taxes are not meant for our luxuries so we cant spend money for halls, caterers and dancers. We cant even afford a guud sound system on rent. So what does the Army do? It does everything by itself!

Once i remember, our unit was tasked to establish a meena bazar type thing for ladies and children. And guess what, we cant even get ONE civilian to work for us! The Mehandi Wali Aunty says, she has to go to Liberty as she would earn more there, the chaat cholay wala said, why would he come to the cantt when he would make more money while standing at Saddar Karachi, the tattoo maker said he would busy at Fortress Stadium so he cant come. So now what? The same teachers from the same APS which the Army run were requested to help. Wives and daughters of officers and men did the job. Waiters and soldiers established stands for food, young officers ran games like whack a mole for kids, officers and men sang, senior officers narrated jokes, sweepers planned skits, technicians from Signal Battalions did the lighting and established sound system (on job training), soldiers established the tents and kannats, soldier and officers planned the decorations, the same soldiers and officers provided security during the event and the event was so successful that all of the ponders of the area tried their arse out get in as they left liberty/sinbad/out side bazars in favor of this one.

Now ofcourse almost all of this was non-professional activity, but then so what? In addition it did reward us professionally. How do you think militarymen had such mental endurance? PT/games alone cant do that. A Lt/Capt on that day did the following; he commanded his men out of the professional sphere while he was explaining them where they had to pitch the tents, it's an informal interaction which one seldom gets while he is in uniform, but it is this bond and affiliation and the easy-feel type mahol order and execution connection that would make these men take a bullet for you during war. The same officer and men also interacted with civilians, teachers, civilian residents of the cantt, police, WAPDA guys to ensure provision of electricity, WASA to water and clean the park/lawn whatever, they also contacted the municipal committees to ask for assistance like water bowsers, it was the officer who told the WAPDA guys to shift the load shedding schedule and sector so that during the event almost everybody in the cantt would be at the venue so the residential areas can be shed the load and the saved electricity provided/spared for the event - see, how else to the Army learn what to do during IS duties? This officer now knows what a peon at municipal committee is supposed to do, what all duties are entrusted upon the SHO, how an XEN or SDO can manipulate provision of water/electricity, he knows which grid station/DS station or DPs provide power to which sector etc. All of this will come handy to this officer when 10 years from now he would be interacting with DCOs/XENs/DPOs during Moharram duties/election duties/census/flood/earthquake relief duties or for that matter fight LIC in an COIN environment. They same men also coordinated with the intelligence guys, an opportunity a Lt/Capt seldom gets during his professional life as the int channels are at command level. These guys were in uniform in the morning, after taking lunch withing 20 minutes they were in tracksuites, then they were back in uniform again, then then were standing at guard, and then they were relived so that they can also enjoy the evening after they get all dressed up. The sheer fluidity of the situation would make many around here dizzy, still guys like them still enjoy at the end of they day after getting fatigued for 12 hours. No wonder our men dont commit suicides!

So the thing is administrative task would go along with the professional ones. We are not the US military who establish their media centers in Hilton Hotels during invasion of Iraq. i hope you guys know that this particular hilton was surrounded by a new blast proof wall at the expense of american tax payers in order to save the media/PR military officers who ran the media center. We are not the US military that tells the contractors to supply XYZ type of food at ABC long/lats and gets it there as it pays billions to the contractor. It's easy for them to rent out a satellite so that their soldiers can enjoy the broadband internet during a war in Afg, here when our Signal Battalions (they all are Software Enggs) do the same with own resources and jugard, you call it being and unprofessional activity?!

The day the Pakistani tax-payers would start paying for the golf-courses, messes and clubs and the militarymen would be paid and provided with the luxuries the civilians enjoy, we might think of leaving these 'unprofessional' activities aside.

Worthlessness, who the *** wants to work for something when one can pay for it and get it done while sitting on the couch? Please, bar us from wasting our time on these activities and start paying for it, ASAP

A brilliant portrait of a day in the life. You have my respect Sir.

 

[Xeric]

Before i go further, i saw some talk of education in the military and the obsession thereof.

It was said that Army need soldiers, not scholars, though i am totally against this and also the Army fools you by saying this as to get yourself respected and promoted, one not only needs to be an intellectual but also well educated.

But then the thing is, what exactly should be the criterion for a soldiers' education? Should they we higher educated, as Muse mentions of that Major or should it be that they can be educated enough to think critically, analyze a problem and find solutions?

What people probably dont get is that this Army is so versatile, huge and spread that one can find almost every kind of a soldier here - as they say if you stand for one hour at Times Square, you would be able to see every nationality of this world there.

Musey makes the mentions of this Radar Major with a PhD. Though he did not mention is Arm or Dept, what i can guess is that the Officer belonged to a techinal arm, like Signals, Engineers, Missiles etc. See, an infantry soldier need not to be a PhD, not even a Masters, he is the most simple and basic form of soldier. No technicality, no angraizi and no sainse. His job is simple (though the most dangerous) in execution - to over come the enemy through 'fire' and 'move'. For this to happen he should rather must be sane, that's most important, then he must be an excellent shooter or should perfectly know who to use his weapon and then he must be damn fit, both physically and mentally, that's it. Common sense ofcourse would get him out, alive. Armor Corp would need some more perhako soldiers, well they have a big tank to run with. The technicalities involved in making use of a tank would require a more capable brain. Now getting educated with the tank and being educated in a sense that one is aware of almost everything arent not that different, because the bottom line is that a more educated soldier would be the one who could comprehend tank tactics in ADDITION to infantry tactics, because he may be employed on dual role (armor and infantry) but an infantry soldier would never be asked to drive a tank. Similarly, gunners require more education, because of the gunnery, ballistics, mathematics rather arithmetic and the deep science of applied gunnery demands a higher brain. Then the guys from Signals and Engineers are the 'nerds.' They have to fight less and do a technical job instead. All Signal Officer are either Software or Telecom Engineers, Officer from Engineers hold a BE Degree in Civil Engineering. Quite a large number of these officers are able to complete the doctorate. These are then employed as researchers/doctrine formulation.

Then there is Army Education Corps. Numerous PhDs and the remainder are Masters. Almost every AEC officer has one dream and i.e. to get a PhD degree in his respective discipline, though not many would succeed. Roughly, out the total of 6560 PhDs in Pakistan, 500 belongs to Pakistan Army.

The purpose of narrating all this was to explain how a foot soldier or officer who is supposed to fight on ground doesnt not necessarily require higher education, though personal grooming and education related to his particular/specific task is mandatory.

The military has experts where they should be, though i must admit that the numbers are less and even those who are there have not yet proven themselves to the task.

Also, the Army pays alot of attention towards the professional and personal grooming of officers. There are various ways to do that which i would not dwell about, but just to give you an idea, it can be a simple thing as writing a book review and a deliberate act like writing an article for a renowned newspaper/military magazine.

But then most importantly, what kind or education is one talking about? The kind of where a relation of mine who is doing PhD and has patented a thing, doesnt know how to remove a a start-up program from Windows or the kind that i can tell just by typing here how much cement bags would one require to make a 10 x 12 feet wall? i mean, i have seen very guud professionals, excellent professionals but they are such bastards that if i am allowed to kill one man, he/she would be the first one. Now tell me, is this kind of a highly educated guy guud enough for a profession like military? Because i know how genius he might be, his under commands would either kill him or kill themselves if he ever made it in the Army.

How about i tell you that i can tell the approx speed of a moving vehicle by watching a spinning tyre? No? How about by just seeing the size of the moon and the time then, i can exactly tell when it is going to disappear? This is related to military planning. i can see a track and kick some dirty over it and this would tell me if tanks and artillery guns would bog down here or not. When i was at Siachen we could taste the snow and predict if it is going to create an avalanche.

More professional? Anything from the weight of a bullet to the overhaul of tank engines and from marking trenches to predicting enemy's attack plans and denying the same to the enemy. i only need to know the answer to two questions from an unsuspecting mind and i may narrate the entire defensive battle design of the enemy. Now i dont say i know everything, infact i know nothing and i still find myself inferior of the majority of other officers when it comes to knowledge, but then how should one quantify education? That Agno being a student could extensively comment on military and politics with tangibles, or that Taimi being banker could even at times educate me on certain kind of weaponry, or that Mastan being a car dealer can outclass almost all military professionals or may be education is the human psychology and man management techniques that i have been reading for years now or may be the hard core knowledge about military weapons, there capabilities and employment, understanding of military tactics and then the though process involved in strategy formulation or may be being educated is getting the masters degree which most officers would do when they are posted near some university?

BTW, i should tell you guys, regular Army officer (not the technical trades) is educated for atleast 6+3+6+9+12=36 months till the rank of major in addition to his graduation that he completes during training at PMA, thus giving him approx 17 years of education. War courses etc are further done during senior ranks. Optional/volunteer courses are over and above this. Every officer has atleast done one such optional course that can range from 2 months to 6 months. Foreign qualification are added bonus.

So if someone thinks he wants to join the Army because he is weak studies, think atleast 10 times before you decide. Like they say, fauji fauj mai anay say pehlay ayashi karata hai (dont study) or phir baki sari umer perhta hai, but bureaucrat sirf aik dafa sahe tareekay say perhta hai (CSS exam), baki sari zindagi ayashe karta hai

 

[SQ8]

Those tank guys will need a little bit more education now.. along with the infantry radio operator.. .

 

[Jango]

Really well written Xeric! Thumbs up.

 

[Jango]

The AVN EME is also a very technical kind of job. Sitting all day from morning to noon, by the engine, and figuring out that what the heck was the problem that the Pilot mentioned in his flight report!!!

 

[Xeric]

Those tank guys will need a little bit more education now.. along with the infantry radio operator.. .

Yaar kab do gay ye angrazi hamain? Ya bachay ki jaan lo gay?

 

[SQ8]

Yaar kab do gay ye angrazi hamain? Ya bachay ki jaan lo gay?

Shukar karien sirf angrezi hi seekhni pari hai.. bari mushkil se aik aur zaban ko nikalwaya hai dabay se. Daba mil jaye ga.. bas thora aur intezar.. kuch secure paney ke liye thora intezar karna parta hai.

 

[Xeric]

Hi,

It is about time that pak millitary start to take that leap of faith---in bringing about a change----they need to get away from the british mindset and get into the american setup of millitary operation and a soldier to officer relation.

Well it seems the uniform change is the first step into that direction. Plus other changes within the army command structure are other steps too, but its a long road which needs to be navigated with care. Lot of change has to be brought in.

And Sir, the soldier to officer relation in our army is very strong. In PA the relation is not wide as speculated. Yeah there may have been a change but since these operations in FATA, the relationship between officers and jawans has become strong again, we have seen jawans giving their lives for their officers and vice versa. Giving example, my bro being a Captain used to live in one room with 10 jawans at some post and ate with them what the jawans used to, gave his share of sentry watch no matter day or night even though the jawans with him used to tell him that Sahab you should rest we will do the sentry watch but my bro used, similarly we have stories of Xeric who was shielded by his men during an artillery fire at Siachen, so many other stories i have to show that the relation between jawans and officers is strong. Further improvement can be done still.

But main emphasis should be on the operational preparedness of the army. Its structure, mobility, firepower, command and control structure etc etc.

Taimi, i think MK is not talking about the typical senior junior relation between officers and men, rather he is hinting towards the unnecessary formalities, protocol and 'fear' that prevails when juniors are around seniors. To explain this i would like to quote an example here, once we were somewhere out of Pakistan on some kinda joint training, there after we supposed to attend some seminar thingy. The military students were almost from all over the world. After the training we were all in the chow hall when a USAF Brig came in. He was with us during the training and before that. So we met him, had some chit chat when another Colonel asked us (the foreigners) to pose for a group foto. While we were lining up the colonel recalled that he dont have his cam with him, when he was told by another officer that the Brig always carries one with him. So he tells one his soldiers to go get it from the Brig who was now feasting on soup not far from us. What we saw next was surprising for some of us. The soldiers asks about the cam from him, he while souping up points towards the thigh pocket of his uniform, sticks up his leg over a vacant chair so that the soldier dont have to bent more, and tells the soldier to get from the pocket, which he does. The officers from Italy, Japan etc didnt feel anything, but this Capt from Nepal and Bangladesh murmured almost in synchronization...Sala...B*** C***...!!

i knew what got them. So i smiled and told them k abhi foto khinchwao, is ko hum zaroor discuss karain gy baad main.

So, the thing is that Armies of our part of the world are unnecessarily burdened with over-respect (if such word exists) and undue obedience to even unlawful commands, i think it was this what MK was pointing towards. Our soldiers could not dare do that kinda thing that american soldier did, nor does our Brig would allow soldiers to finger their pockets. Though, i dont say we should start doing the same, because we dont search pockets of our elders even if they tell us to, but then we need to be a bit more forth coming with the soldiers. And i am glad to tell you that things have changed manifold.

Why do you think Gen Kiyani had to go garrison, garrison to explain about the OBL raid? Didnt the news articles about these visit always made one thing quite clear; 'that Gen Kiyani had to face certain very direct and bitter questions from his officer lot'? Similarly, as the officers education and awareness level has gone up (compare a today's officer with that of 60s), the soldier of today is also more educated. You cant just tell him to jump from the building without explaining him, why. So things have changed, and i am glad that they have, because we need soldiers who think and act, not those who just follow orders. MK, i am sure you would not be disappointed if you meet a soldier of today and ask about his relation with officers.

 

[Xeric]

Hi,

It is about time that pak millitary start to take that leap of faith---in bringing about a change----they need to get away from the british mindset and get into the american setup of millitary operation and a soldier to officer relation.

A really nice write up though I shall not encourage the idea of pentagular setup. The present Corp-Div-Bde chain of command was based on lessons we learnt in the 65 & 71 war and is effective.

Rest of the ideas are very productive & PA has been moving in on those, I personally know of detailed studies going on, with respect to amalgamation of training centres and more...

i cant find the date on the article, i dont when was it written, surely it was after the OBL raid, but then almost all of the points mentioned in the article are 'old'. i mean, these have been discussed so many times in the Army that they have become a routine. Also, most of them have already been implemented, but ofcourse these are not going to produce results overnight - so big an Army and so deep rooted these traditions are. i can only count 2 may be 3 'out of the box' type points in the article, the rest is already on Army's table.

As for the making the Div HQ redundant, i would not agree. On one side we are raising Commands (another HQ over the Corps) and on the other how can we abolish the Div HQ? Division is the basic field formation that can undertake independent operations. Also re:

Wastefull Organizations:* Artillery Divisions, HAT, LAT in particular referring to the HAT and LAT battalions. If you recall that till the reorganization of the 60’s the Anti-Tank Regiments were part of the Corps of Artillery. The Infantry should have only two components i.e. the Light Infantry or the Mechanized Infantry
The remaining nomenclatures are just semantics. I visualize the anti-tank assets presently held with the LAT battalions be handed over to other infantry battalions of the formation thus augmenting their anti-tank resources. These units should be converted to light commando battalions on the pattern of US Rangers battalion in every division. Similarly the HAT elements if required to operate independently may be reorganized into independent companies to be attached with independent brigade groups.

i would love to do the Brig says above, but then why do i say that a Div HQ cannot be removed because we cannot afford a HAT Battalion at the Division level, it is because of the resources that this damn HAT asset is to be given to the Corps so that it can further distribute it down to Battalion level according to his (the Corps Commanders) perception of Tank threat in the entire Corp front. i mean, who wouldnt like to have a LAT Battalion with every brigade? But then we usually have one may be two at Div level because our tax-payers and begairat brigades cannot buy a LAT Battalion for every Brigade of Pakistan Army, therefore just like the HAT Bn is given to the Corp Commander, a LAT Bn is given to the GOC who further gives the same in pieces/parts down to infantry battalions.

It's like equipping every squadron with FA/22s and F-35s, but then we do have to manage with F-7Ps and Mirages with ROSEs, dont we?

Also, i dont know when did the worthy Brig retire, but then as of today, an infantry battalion do have 'some'
Anti-Tank resource similar to his suggestion above. i wont say what, but i am sure if he reads this, he would know what i am talking about.

So, the suggestions are (all) valid, only the question is (as some troll wrote; 'billi ko gnaiti kon banday ga'), paisa kon day ga (ye sub kuch karnay k liye?). Cut the military in size? Musey school of thought, right? Nah...like i have already proven that reducing a complete Division will not even get you enough money to raise a single fringing Armour Regiment, what to take about a LAT/HAT Battalion. The Army has already reduced its strength by 50000 in 2006 by banishing the Batman system, and reduced the civilian manpower by reducing the number of waiters in messes, carpenters, cobblers in units etc. Ab or kaya? Bachay ki jaan lay ga kaya??

 

[Xeric]

What is wrong with utilizing the Cantt's for 'commercial purposes'?

I personally don't really agree with the author on 'segregating the civilians and military personnel' in the Cantt's, though I understand the security argument, but through segregation the military will simply be characterized that much more as some 'section of the elite'.

Believe me, if this would be in my hand, i would take the cantts so far away from the residential areas that no one would even know that a cantt exists around there. i would just make the men do training, training, rest, training, leave, training, mano-ranjan,training, training and training. The civilians can then die. But then it is not possible and i will have to agree with you.

i was once in a huge cantt. Almost all of the shops etc were manned by (medically unfit) soldiers. i had friends visits me who would say why would faujis man shops. i didnt say much. i just let him stay at my place for a week or so. i told him that for the coming week he should live here as if he is living at his home and spend accordingly. The batman (BM) was available for him whenever he wants to get something from the bazar, but i barred the NCB to buy anything from the within the cantt and told to go outside, in the city. This was also told to this other guy. No every now and then he would require mobile ph cards, so the BM would travel like 6 Kms out of the cantt on his cycle and come back after like 40 minutes. He would require cigarettes, he would do that atleast 3 cig before the pack ends because by the time the BM would bring back the new pack, these 3 would have been consumed. Similarly, the chicken, sabzi, dall, chawal all were being brought from outside (my family was not with me so the BM did the cooking). Clearly, the friend of mine felt that the quality of food has declined, not because of the cooking standard, but because of the poor quality of items like aloo, tamatar etc. Also, now they were expensive than before. And after just 4 days, my friend was like, yaar, bus kar kis azab mai dal diya hai tunay mujhy... i told him..janab abhi tu mohabbat ka agaz hai..

Now why was it like this? See, no civilian is happy to opena shop inside the cantt. Reasons:
- He has to pay his rent right on time.
- He has to pay he electric bills right on time, had he rented this shop outside, he can enjoy it without the bill.
- He cannot do konda bazi and screw with the electric meter, which he must have done outside.
- A duty officer would visit him daily and inspect his shop for hygiene, the Food Dept is supposed to do that, but they wont, they would only come to him for kharcha pani.
- He cannot have his lafantar friends sit outside the shop and do pondi.
- He would have to come in and out of the cannt on daily basis, which most of our worthy civilians dont like as they are asked about their CNICs.
- Now he would also expect that the Army should either give him a quarter or rent him a house. The Army wont do it because unlike the civilian beurcarcy, we dont allow relatives and friends to live in Dak Banglas, Offices, Servant quarters and we also dont rent out govt accommodation and make money out of it. (Try to visit a grid station or a dam/barrage, please let me know if you wont find retired people from thee depts residing in the same homes they were when they were on job, since decades. This is how the funds are screwed as new houses would be made so hat other yes-men can be accommodated without asking the retirees to vacate, because un sahib nay saab ko kafi faida diya tha na jab wo hazir service thay . Unfortunately, our begairat brigade wont see this. The Army utilizes resources for the military for welfare, but not at the cost of others and surely not at the expense of your taxes.)
- And most importantly, he has to sell everything as per the RATE LIST!!

i mean, try getting some mangoes from a shop at some adda...jitni bari gari..uthna mehnga daam...or do numberi alag. It has happened to me twice that the fruit wala replaced the shopping bags after i paid for the selected fruit. The second time it happened to me, i was nearly going to blow his head with my pistol! SOB!

You send you BM outside, they know and the BM know k mainay khud tu nahi khana ye sabzi ya fruit, so the shop keeper and the BM will **** you together. i mean, i cant go daily 10 kms outside the cantt to do grocery. Sorry sir, no can do. Sham 6 bajay ghar aon or phir masalay b khareed k laon? So one has to be dependent on Sir BM. Yeah, one can purchase the monthly rations at one time but then choti moti chizain are there which you need to go get on daily basis.

So now when the civilians would not come open shops inside the cantts and that you cannot go out, what could be done? Voila! We can open our own shops. Spare a soldier or two (that too those who are not making themselves useful during the military routine) who can man them.Now this happens in almost every cantt. The S&T guys (whose job to feed the Army and are best suited for the job as they are guud at quality thing) manage these. i mean they will get guud mango from the mandi and sell it on the right rate, no yaki at all. And if things are not selling and getting retarded, we always do receive mail telling us that you better buy that fish which you guys were so happily demanding or else no fish from next time onwards. It's like a family thing. Even if send the BM tu purchase the items, the shop wala knows k agar kharan di tu kal danda mil jayega. This way i dont have to check my BM if he is charging me more. i also need not worry if the BM is bargaining with the shopkeeper properly, because the rates are fixed. Saaf suthra kaam...and the civilian shop keeper CANNOT do this, never!

They will sell the same mango 200/kg in the morning, they will sell that 300/kg if someone come on an XLI, they will segregate the best mangoes out and sell them like 500/kg. At night or at odd times when he knows that the buyer cannot get the same thing from elsewhere, he is going to even demand you to kiss his arse. Now it is the job of sir DCO to make sure the civilian buyers should also be given a fixed rate and that the they get the best quality, per kyn ji? Havent you guys seen the Rs 100 Ufone Card being sold at Rs 110? i feel like killing these guys. i feel pity on ourselves, but then i say i think we deserve this because we dont object. We will buy everything at whatever rate it is given to us. If the sugar prices are raised, screw sugar, quit taking tea for few days, ye sugar mill walay khud minatain karaingy. Well going off topic.. so i was talking about the shops in cantts.

Also, because of the less sale, people dont like to come in the cantt, how can they pay the rent and the kid manning the shop if things are not to going sell in the same way as they do outside the cannt because of more buyers?

i remember a GOC requesting Officers to find some contractor who could man a shop in a distant cantt because no one was ready to take it, although it was such a modern shop with all the texture walls and stuff. But zahir hai jab us cantt mai fauji he total 1000 hain, ab her koi tu roz pizza ya pastery khata na. i remember when i was there, i had to travel to 20 km out of the cantt to by onions. Now either i can do this daily or we should run a small shop inside the cantt doing the same. We even asked a few thailay wala tu come visit the cantt so that we can purchase vegetables, but to no avail. We had this restaurant built in that cantt, a contractor came and took over it. Just after 2 months he said that he can go further, because every now and then a unit was going out for training, some were already deployed, some were on leave, others committed in IS duties, thus the overall strength inside the cantt was very low. Now who go and eat from a restaurant on daily basis? Bhag gya contractor bhai. Then a Major who was retiring in a month and was a local took over it as a post retirement business. He too after a month was no more willing. Because log ain ya na ain, waiter to rakhnay paray gay na, cook be hongay, who is going to pay them if no one is coming?

Then we decided to link that restaurant with the mess. Got a few civilian cooks. Hired a manager kinda guy on monthly pay, added a few of our own waiters and cooks, made an officer responsible for the it and it all worked very well. The military cooks and waiters who were working here would get some extra pay by the end of the day, because they would do this after they would work in the messes. The income thus generated was used to pay the civilian cooks and waiters and the manager saab. The officer was just there for the danda, the manager guy was responsible for everything, for accounts, quality, complains and well being of the staff. So this way, no fauji resources were committed, no tax payers' money was utilized and no 'unprofessional' activity took place, only that a few heads had to roll and a brig and a col had to do a meeting to come to this arrangement, that too at the home of the brig saab. Now if this somehow hinders our professional ability, please let me know. And yes, as the thing was running almost on no profit and no loss system, you would get the best food, both in quality and quantity. Seriously, mujhy waha ja kar pata laga k 1 kilo ki karahai aik banda khataum nahi kar sakta, warana bahir sy khao tu aik ko puri nh ati.

Now, if someone is having a problem with this arrangement, well he can lick some cyanide.

 

[muse]

See, an infantry soldier need not to be a PhD, not even a Masters, he is the most simple and basic form of soldier. No technicality, no angraizi and no sainse. His job is simple (though the most dangerous) in execution - to over come the enemy through 'fire' and 'move'. For this to happen he should rather must be sane, that's most important, then he must be an excellent shooter or should perfectly know who to use his weapon and then he must be damn fit, both physically and mentally, that's it.

If you look at Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya (maybe Syria) operations, two things related to not just education but technical education, come to mind, One is of course the kinds of huge returns the use of air power to deny adversaries any advantage or assistance they could offer their troops, the second is the use of highly trained Special operations teams. The teams consist of highly trained individuals, with not just technical training and expertise, but also language, culture (Human terrain) specialties.

Because the war or "hostilities" we may be confronted with will almost certainly not be like what we have been used to, and will certainly be very reliant on technical proficiency and expertise and will effect the outcome of such hostilities, my humble opinion. that a better educated (trained) soldier At all levels, officer, noncom, and enlisted) for new kinds of war and environment, is a existential imperative for us. I really don't think we will really "most simple and basic" soldiering, because we will not be confronted with simple and basic war.

 

[Xeric]

If you look at Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya (maybe Syria) operations, two things related to not just education but technical education, come to mind, One is of course the kinds of huge returns the use of air power to deny adversaries any advantage or assistance they could offer their troops, the second is the use of highly trained Special operations teams. The teams consist of highly trained individuals, with not just technical training and expertise, but also language, culture (Human terrain) specialties.

Because the war or "hostilities" we may be confronted with will almost certainly not be like what we have been used to, and will certainly be very reliant on technical proficiency and expertise and will effect the outcome of such hostilities, my humble opinion. that a better educated (trained) soldier At all levels, officer, noncom, and enlisted) for new kinds of war and environment, is a existential imperative for us. I really don't think we will really "most simple and basic" soldiering, because we will not be confronted with simple and basic war.

i think i said the same thing, only with less garhi angraiji.

The first thing is that the Army cannot afford sending every soldier or for that matter an entire task force to NUML. But still, as the Army is efficient, it does impart local language training to units operating in Balochistan and FATA. Local cadres are run at formation level and i remember making the troops ratofy Balochi words before the morning PT. Ofcourse, we cant add "qsl" (qualified special language label which is added to your name once you have formally undertaken foreign language course at NUML before you go for course abroad in no english speaking countries) to every soldier, still we have done what all was in our capacity. Also keeping view the IQ and educational background of our soldiers, it is not possible for every one to learn a second language. Still, as i have pointed out, units going into the war zone are given ample language training. Rest the efficiency of these units is evident to all by the success we have achieved so i'll not comment on that.

Now, ofcourse i would want that we should have highly educated and aware troops, but then again you can only be guud as your background. Before we start producing Einsteins, we would have to look at the educational standards of our country. So you gotta live with what we have, for now.

 

[muse]

Educational standards in the army is what I'm talking about - and I think those standards are amenable to review and improvement - and if I may, Small specialty schools organized and run by the army is what I am pointing towards.

you can only be guud as your background

This mindset that is focused on what one was and not what can be trained into being, should be reconsidered - we might become forward looking instead of fixated on the past (hey, it could happen).

 

[Xeric]

Educational standards in the army is what I'm talking about - and I think those standards are amenable to review and improvement - and if I may, Small specialty schools organized and run by the army is what I am pointing towards.



This mindset that is focused on what one was and not what can be trained into being, should be reconsidered - we might become forward looking instead of fixated on the past (hey, it could happen).

Aap bacahy ki jaan lay k he chorain gay janab..

Aray bhai ap nay language ki baat ki, hum nay aapko bata diya k kya kartay hain hum language k silay main. You showed concerns regarding higher education, i told you that we have approx 500 PhDs in our Army and that ALL officer from EME, Signal, Engineers and Doctors are degree holders. EME (either electrical or mechanical BE), Signals (telecom or sofware engg), Engineers (Civili Engg), Doc (well you know), apart from this all guys from AEC are atleast master, most of them more than one and quite a handsome amount hold PhDs. Moreover, a colleague of mine (a regular soldier from infantry) has already completed his PhD from Karachi University, or her rooz tanay marta ha mujhy k tu b kar lay, and i am like, PDF say jaan chottay ge tu karonga na. i personally know about 10 officers who are from the fighting arms have done their PhDs. In addition to this, almost every Lt Col as of today hold an Masters Degree in one subject or the other. Most of them hold more than one. i wont tell what i hold. With the advent of Virtual University and the old friend Allama Iqbal Open University (AIOU), officers and even their wives are always up to something. i have even sent soldiers on leave to appear in AIOU exams. Sir wo paper dainya hai choti chaiye..and i was like..is say thaka howa bahana nahi mila is choti janay k liye...to be revealed later that he actually was busy to further his education.

As of today, say thankxs to Sir Kiyani, every Officer of Pakistan Army would be holding a BS Degree. Two years of education in PMA (initially it used to be graduation only) and further he would have a total of 3 years after getting commission to complete his 2 years credit hours. Subjects like Human Resource, Man Management, War Studies etc have been added to the typical fauji curriculum in School of Instructions. Thus, on completion of 4 years of studies successfully he would be awarded the BS Degree. So in future, every Captain of Pakistan Army would not be a Graduate (BA/BSc) but would hold a BS.

Already, those Captians and Major who attend Gunnery Staff Course (Artillery and Air Defence guys) are given MSc Metallurgy Degrees on getting atleast B+ grade in the gunner staff course, from Peshawar University. This is happening since like 15 years from now.

And ofcourse, i have already told you that a thaka howa Major Saab is much educated than many civilians by the virtue of his 17 years of schooling (minimum). BTW, how much years of schooling does a PhD have? Dont tell me, i know it. Officers who have attended Gunnery Staff, Foreign Courses, and senior officers who would attend NDC and War Courses and those officers who would attend optional courses like Mountain/Desert Warfar etc would add more 'years' to their studies.

BTW, just wait for this BS Degree thingy to happen. i am sure many would vomit blood from their 9 holes!

 

[Jango]

Believe me, if this would be in my hand, i would take the cantts so far away from the residential areas that no one would even know that a cantt exists around there. i would just make the men do training, training, rest, training, leave, training, mano-ranjan,training, training and training. The civilians can then die. But then it is not possible and i will have to agree with you.

i was once in a huge cantt. Almost all of the shops etc were manned by (medically unfit) soldiers. i had friends visits me who would say why would faujis man shops. i didnt say much. i just let him stay at my place for a week or so. i told him that for the coming week he should live here as if he is living at his home and spend accordingly. The batman (BM) was available for him whenever he wants to get something from the bazar, but i barred the NCB to buy anything from the within the cantt and told to go outside, in the city. This was also told to this other guy. No every now and then he would require mobile ph cards, so the BM would travel like 6 Kms out of the cantt on his cycle and come back after like 40 minutes. He would require cigarettes, he would do that atleast 3 cig before the pack ends because by the time the BM would bring back the new pack, these 3 would have been consumed. Similarly, the chicken, sabzi, dall, chawal all were being brought from outside (my family was not with me so the BM did the cooking). Clearly, the friend of mine felt that the quality of food has declined, not because of the cooking standard, but because of the poor quality of items like aloo, tamatar etc. Also, now they were expensive than before. And after just 4 days, my friend was like, yaar, bus kar kis azab mai dal diya hai tunay mujhy... i told him..janab abhi tu mohabbat ka agaz hai..

Now why was it like this? See, no civilian is happy to opena shop inside the cantt. Reasons:
- He has to pay his rent right on time.
- He has to pay he electric bills right on time, had he rented this shop outside, he can enjoy it without the bill.
- He cannot do konda bazi and screw with the electric meter, which he must have done outside.
- A duty officer would visit him daily and inspect his shop for hygiene, the Food Dept is supposed to do that, but they wont, they would only come to him for kharcha pani.
- He cannot have his lafantar friends sit outside the shop and do pondi.
- He would have to come in and out of the cannt on daily basis, which most of our worthy civilians dont like as they are asked about their CNICs.
- Now he would also expect that the Army should either give him a quarter or rent him a house. The Army wont do it because unlike the civilian beurcarcy, we dont allow relatives and friends to live in Dak Banglas, Offices, Servant quarters and we also dont rent out govt accommodation and make money out of it. (Try to visit a grid station or a dam/barrage, please let me know if you wont find retired people from thee depts residing in the same homes they were when they were on job, since decades. This is how the funds are screwed as new houses would be made so hat other yes-men can be accommodated without asking the retirees to vacate, because un sahib nay saab ko kafi faida diya tha na jab wo hazir service thay . Unfortunately, our begairat brigade wont see this. The Army utilizes resources for the military for welfare, but not at the cost of others and surely not at the expense of your taxes.)
- And most importantly, he has to sell everything as per the RATE LIST!!

i mean, try getting some mangoes from a shop at some adda...jitni bari gari..uthna mehnga daam...or do numberi alag. It has happened to me twice that the fruit wala replaced the shopping bags after i paid for the selected fruit. The second time it happened to me, i was nearly going to blow his head with my pistol! SOB!

You send you BM outside, they know and the BM know k mainay khud tu nahi khana ye sabzi ya fruit, so the shop keeper and the BM will **** you together. i mean, i cant go daily 10 kms outside the cantt to do grocery. Sorry sir, no can do. Sham 6 bajay ghar aon or phir masalay b khareed k laon? So one has to be dependent on Sir BM. Yeah, one can purchase the monthly rations at one time but then choti moti chizain are there which you need to go get on daily basis.

So now when the civilians would not come open shops inside the cantts and that you cannot go out, what could be done? Voila! We can open our own shops. Spare a soldier or two (that too those who are not making themselves useful during the military routine) who can man them.Now this happens in almost every cantt. The S&T guys (whose job to feed the Army and are best suited for the job as they are guud at quality thing) manage these. i mean they will get guud mango from the mandi and sell it on the right rate, no yaki at all. And if things are not selling and getting retarded, we always do receive mail telling us that you better buy that fish which you guys were so happily demanding or else no fish from next time onwards. It's like a family thing. Even if send the BM tu purchase the items, the shop wala knows k agar kharan di tu kal danda mil jayega. This way i dont have to check my BM if he is charging me more. i also need not worry if the BM is bargaining with the shopkeeper properly, because the rates are fixed. Saaf suthra kaam...and the civilian shop keeper CANNOT do this, never!

They will sell the same mango 200/kg in the morning, they will sell that 300/kg if someone come on an XLI, they will segregate the best mangoes out and sell them like 500/kg. At night or at odd times when he knows that the buyer cannot get the same thing from elsewhere, he is going to even demand you to kiss his arse. Now it is the job of sir DCO to make sure the civilian buyers should also be given a fixed rate and that the they get the best quality, per kyn ji? Havent you guys seen the Rs 100 Ufone Card being sold at Rs 110? i feel like killing these guys. i feel pity on ourselves, but then i say i think we deserve this because we dont object. We will buy everything at whatever rate it is given to us. If the sugar prices are raised, screw sugar, quit taking tea for few days, ye sugar mill walay khud minatain karaingy. Well going off topic.. so i was talking about the shops in cantts.

Also, because of the less sale, people dont like to come in the cantt, how can they pay the rent and the kid manning the shop if things are not to going sell in the same way as they do outside the cannt because of more buyers?

i remember a GOC requesting Officers to find some contractor who could man a shop in a distant cantt because no one was ready to take it, although it was such a modern shop with all the texture walls and stuff. But zahir hai jab us cantt mai fauji he total 1000 hain, ab her koi tu roz pizza ya pastery khata na. i remember when i was there, i had to travel to 20 km out of the cantt to by onions. Now either i can do this daily or we should run a small shop inside the cantt doing the same. We even asked a few thailay wala tu come visit the cantt so that we can purchase vegetables, but to no avail. We had this restaurant built in that cantt, a contractor came and took over it. Just after 2 months he said that he can go further, because every now and then a unit was going out for training, some were already deployed, some were on leave, others committed in IS duties, thus the overall strength inside the cantt was very low. Now who go and eat from a restaurant on daily basis? Bhag gya contractor bhai. Then a Major who was retiring in a month and was a local took over it as a post retirement business. He too after a month was no more willing. Because log ain ya na ain, waiter to rakhnay paray gay na, cook be hongay, who is going to pay them if no one is coming?

Then we decided to link that restaurant with the mess. Got a few civilian cooks. Hired a manager kinda guy on monthly pay, added a few of our own waiters and cooks, made an officer responsible for the it and it all worked very well. The military cooks and waiters who were working here would get some extra pay by the end of the day, because they would do this after they would work in the messes. The income thus generated was used to pay the civilian cooks and waiters and the manager saab. The officer was just there for the danda, the manager guy was responsible for everything, for accounts, quality, complains and well being of the staff. So this way, no fauji resources were committed, no tax payers' money was utilized and no 'unprofessional' activity took place, only that a few heads had to roll and a brig and a col had to do a meeting to come to this arrangement, that too at the home of the brig saab. Now if this somehow hinders our professional ability, please let me know. And yes, as the thing was running almost on no profit and no loss system, you would get the best food, both in quality and quantity. Seriously, mujhy waha ja kar pata laga k 1 kilo ki karahai aik banda khataum nahi kar sakta, warana bahir sy khao tu aik ko puri nh ati.

Now, if someone is having a problem with this arrangement, well he can lick some cyanide.

Of what time are you narrating this ? Nowadays you can find almost all the basic necessities inside the Cantt premises. There are bakeries and shops right next doors, the mess has all the stuff readily available, (well that is for the bachelors) but still.