Reorientation And Restructuring of Pakistan Army

[Jango]

Oh, that is all to ensure "welfare of the troops and their families" as has already been stated above.

I will go along with the flow,

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Oh, that is all to ensure "welfare of the troops and their families" as has already been stated above.

thanks for your understanding, thats what the good author is trying to sell and commending Gen Kyani as well

 

[VCheng]

thanks for your understanding, thats what the good author is trying to sell and commending Gen Kyani as well

I am trying to learn as quickly as I am able to, Sir!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I say, the three senior most generals should get the command of the 3 newly created commands and next COAS should be among these 3 senior most generals, plus CJCSC should also have experience of this command. Commanding 3 or more corps by a Lt Gen would add more experience and a good contender for the job of COAS. And i do believe that would be the way too, but lets see.

Pakistan's 'elected civilian leaders' have been equally guilty of ignoring seniority, experience and qualifications when nominating their 'preferred' chiefs to the services.

Ayub, Zia and Musharraf were all 'preferred choices' by civilian leaders.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Then how come they tolerate those lazy, bum good for nothing politicians.. and keep making deals with them??

Isn't that part of 'democracy'?

'Lobbying' with the 'elected politicians' to ensure the institution/group/industry you represent receives its 'share of the pie'?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A glaring example of a cantt being over whelmingly used for commercial activities is Walton Cantt. The place is practically all sold out for commercial purposes.

What is wrong with utilizing the Cantt's for 'commercial purposes'?

I personally don't really agree with the author on 'segregating the civilians and military personnel' in the Cantt's, though I understand the security argument, but through segregation the military will simply be characterized that much more as some 'section of the elite'.

 

[VCheng]

What is wrong with utilizing the Cantt's for 'commercial purposes'?

...................

Other than the fact that commercial uses of appropriated land meant for military uses is a violation of the very purpose of their existence?

 

[sparklingway]

Pakistan's 'elected civilian leaders' have been equally guilty of ignoring seniority, experience and qualifications when nominating their 'preferred' chiefs to the services.

Ayub, Zia and Musharraf were all 'preferred choices' by civilian leaders.

Ayub wasn't selected by Liaquat. His nomination was done by his jiggar, Iskander Mirza, who had one foot in the Army and one in the ICS.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Army is not going to leave it's luxuries. I mean the Generals drive around in all sorts of expensive cars...on state's money. What do you expect of them? They join army to make money not defend the country.

never a good thing to generalize though.....i usually like to cite the story of the late Gen. Asif Nawaz; it was Nawaz Sharif who offered him (or rather already purchased) a flagship BMW sedan (boot-licking) which Gen. declined. He stuck to his modest state-provided Corolla car.

the COAS is issued one of the Mercedes sedans which were purchased back in late 2004 --the rest are allotted to civilian officials.



as for the thread itself --thanks for posting. I'll be happy to give more input tomorrow on it.

 

[Elmo]

never a good thing to generalize though.....i usually like to cite the story of the late Gen. Asif Nawaz; it was Nawaz Sharif who offered him (or rather already purchased) a flagship BMW sedan (boot-licking) which Gen. declined. He stuck to his modest state-provided Corolla car.
the COAS is issued one of the Mercedes sedans which were purchased back in late 2004 --the rest are allotted to civilian officials.
as for the thread itself --thanks for posting. I'll be happy to give more input tomorrow on it.

If only - know the son of a serving general who is famous among his circle of friends for the fleet of fancy cars and ostentatious home they have, and his frequent drunk driving stints in Margalla Hills. Quite shameful that taxpayer's money is being wasted that way. Obviously there are also rumours of his dad receiving kicks but one can never know. In any case their lifestyle does not match the rank - and they are not old money either.

I know what the "non-liberal fascists" would say: it's an isolated incident ignore it. I'll preempt it and by that same logic, ignore the example of Gen Asif Nawaz that you just gave.

 

[Elmo]

Other than the fact that commercial uses of appropriated land meant for military uses is a violation of the very purpose of their existence?

And you think the military apologists would ever want to hear any of this?

When "mil-bus" is used by Ayesha Siddiqa Agha, they get a fit and object.

When the military practices the same, they have no issues with that.

As Shakespeare said, "a rose by another name would remain a rose" or something along those lines.

Mil-bus by any other name would remain the same.

Till they are busy doing "mil-bus", the real soldiers defending the borders would have the focus away from them.

Who all benefits from the mil-bus if not the officers? when was the last time a JCO or NOC benefitted from it the way a commissioned officers did?

It's pushing an elitist agenda in another envelope. the agenda remains the same.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i have no information on what you mentioned therefore it would not be appropriate for me to comment on it....

but what i can say is -- you should be more concerned about outwardly NON-isolated cases......like the MNAs who find clever ways to hide their assets and undisclosed income(s). The ones who earn much larger salaries than most 'politicians' in the entire world.

i dont know why people find it more fashionable to bash these imaginary serving generals while publicly it is known which politicians are sitting on huge wealth, who still only pay the equivalent of $60 worth of tax per annum.

 

[Elmo]

A case for Total Reorientation And Restructuring of the Pakistan*Army

By: Yasub Ali Dogar Brigadier(Rtd.)

I was born on 8th*Dec 1946. My father Maj (Late) Mahbub Ali was then a Capt of 6/12 FFR seconded to the Indian Army Education Corps. Thus you can say that I was born in the Army, grew up in the Army and got educated at the Military Collage Jhelum.

During this period of over 45 years I have seen a gradual degradation of the operational preparedness, efficiency, integrity and welfare of the subordinates particularly of the soldiers. It would have further degenerated had this trend not been arrested by Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. The credit goes to him to once again prioritize the wellbeing and welfare of soldiers. However the recent events have clouded that good work.

The degradation of the military’s professionalism started off during the era of Gen Yahya Khan, was grossly accentuated during Gen Zia ul Haq’s period of 11 years and reached its’*climax in Gen Musharraf’s decade long rule. Since then over a period of time the Pakistan Army has become unwieldy, over staffed by general officers and has been moving away from its core responsibility of defending the Nation. Now a day’s a corps or a division commander would be involved in some or all of the following activities at the time and cost of operational preparedness of his command.

• DHA at all major military garrisons.
• Logistics Areas i.e. which control the static installations which were under GHQ before 1977 were placed under command corps during Gen Zia’s period.
• Garrison schools in the cantonments and admission for Army Public Schools/Garrison Academy’s.
• Looking after the Station/Services/Garrison clubs
• Golf courses /polo grounds which are mostly played by officers.*
• Managing shopping centres like the Fortress Stadium, petrol pumps and a host of other commercial activities.

***In short the corps/division commanders are doing most of the above tasks at the cost of their own primary responsibilities of keeping their commands operationally sound. This unfortunate trend to get involved in non-operational matters finally led to failures like the Abbottabad incident.

***An effort has been made to single out major problem areas and recommendations have been made to rectify them.

Problem Area and Recommendations

The corps, divisions or brigades should not have any station or administrative responsibilities. They should just concentrate on their operational roles. All other aspects may be looked after by other organizations/HQs within the Pak Army.

The Logistic Areas: They should fall under the GHQ with control over CMH’s, supply depots, ordinance depots and all other static installations. Similarly all APS/Garrison schools be placed under the HQ Logistics Area and monitoring responsibility be that of GSO 1 (Education) at the HQ Logistics Area.

Corruption:* There have been reports of corruption at higher level without any accountability e.g. the NLC scandal. It is clear that a corrupt leadership cannot lead*troops in the field to give the supreme sacrifice of their lives.

Austerity and Simplicity: Simple and austere living should be the hall mark of Defence Services, they should be an example for the entire nation. Palatial messes, ornately decorated offices and excessive expenditures on entertainment from official funds are not keeping with Islamic or that matter military traditions. Similarly move Sanction to attend marriages and private functions should be ruthlessly cut down.

The brigadier has come up with a fine list of solution to fixing the army, and the OP also received many thanks, but the subseuqent posts make it very clear how many "insiders" and "pro-military" fascists and apologists are willing to accept the changes.

Let's keep the defenses for the defence services coming. Have yet to hear something new here.

 

[Elmo]

i have no information on what you mentioned therefore it would not be appropriate for me to comment on it....

but what i can say is -- you should be more concerned about outwardly NON-isolated cases......like the MNAs who find clever ways to hide their assets and undisclosed income(s). The ones who earn much larger salaries than most 'politicians' in the entire world.

i dont know why people find it more fashionable to bash these imaginary serving generals while publicly it is known which politicians are sitting on huge wealth, who still only pay the equivalent of $60 worth of tax per annum.

Start a new thread about politicians sitting on their pots of gold, and I'd be more than willing to join you there to bash them.

This is about teh army - I think you thanked the OP without even reading what the brigadier's suggestions were. "NLC scam, no ostentatipus display, limiting attending weddings an functions' - read, read, there is much to learn.

Your defense of one person's bad behaviour (politician's) to justify another's (the mil services) is absolutely incorrect.

What is wrong is wrong. And stays so.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Hi,

You should be thankful to observe the fasting in your air conditioned rooms but still some people whine that roza lag reha hai, have a look at the uniformed men especially those in the war theatres in the north.... and think of those observing the holy month in the most tough conditions and its not like that , that they cant afford the luxuries of life but our men chosen this for mother country and you. Least you cud do is to support them.

Be grateful to the men out in the scorching outdoors to ensure your safety in your comfy indoors.



is he playing golf or driving around in luxury car?

(i cropped the picture intentionally)