REMEMBERING MY SENIOR SIR RASHID MINHAS

[Pakistanisage]

The tricep is always stronger than the bicep. That's why pushing the stick was easier than pulling it. I'm assuming both pilots had a similar body build.

Now tell me, could Mati-Ur-Rahman have ejected himself when the plane was pointed downwards and there was no way to save it?

If so, and he didn't, that means he was there to "do or die" as well.

Also, do you think it is okay to verbally abuse someone who has been dead for more than 40 years ? Regardless of who's side they were on ?

Sir, he could have ejected by removing the " Safety Pins " from the Ejection Seat.

However, he did not have a parachute....

So the landing on the ground could be very uncomfortable...

 

[Faiez]

Sir, he could have ejected by removing the " Safety Pins " from the Ejection Seat.

However, he did not have a parachute....

So the landing on the ground could be very uncomfortable...

I didn't get it. A T-33 ejection seat doesn't have a parachute ? And the pilot has it in his backpack ? Is that what you are saying ?

 

[third eye]

Matiur's family had already moved to Indian Consulate in Karachi, so obviously the Indians were already aware of the plan being hatched.

I recall reading that his wife & daughters were arrested / house arrest and later released a few months later to be sent to BD.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I didn't get it. A T-33 ejection seat doesn't have a parachute ? And the pilot has it in his backpack ? Is that what you are saying ?

This aircraft was developed in the 1940's and we flew with back pack parachutes...

I recall reading that his wife & daughters were arrested / house arrest and later released a few months later to be sent to BD.

They were brought next day from the Indian Consulate to attend Matiur Rehman's Funeral.

 

[syedali73]

1-Why are we so sure that Mati must have kept chloroform in jeep.He could have kept it into his pocket.
2-Why only chloroform? He might be carrying an alternative:

a)Ether
b)Halothane
c)Desflurane.
d)enflurane
e)methoxyflurane
f)isoflurane
g)desflurane
h)sevoflurane

Also,a very interesting read about chloroform:

Chloroform is no longer used as an anaesthetic for several reasons, the most important of which is the relatively high risk of complications, including possible heart failure. One major problem is the very small margin of error between stage-three anaesthesia (patient physically incapable and feeling no pain) and stage-five anaesthesia (paralysis of the chest muscles, often leading to death). It can also take up to five minutes for a skilled anaesthetist to bring a patient to stage three. Chloroform was gradually replaced in the first half of the 20th century by the safer (although highly inflammable) ether, which is still used as an inexpensive anaesthetic today in some developing nations. The use of both chloroform and ether in Western nations effectively disappeared with the discovery of safer alternatives such as halothane and desflurane.


3-H3C.OH? It is simply methanol right?
Well,If Mati's jeep consisted of methylated sprit then there is a chance that he could have used it as CNS drug,Since as drugs,methanols are used as CNS depressant drugs as:

CNS depressants, sometimes referred to as sedatives and tranquilizers, are substances that can slow brain activity. This property makes them useful for treating anxiety and sleep disorders.

4-Concentration of chemicals:Another key to think
5-Such anesthetics can be made at home as well.It is not an issue to make him unconscious,Mati would have used ether as an alternative.

Regards

He could have carried anything. Chloroform and ether are relatively easily available from the hardware stores whereas Methanol or more volatile Ethanol or Iso-Propanol etc. has no value as sedative. Besides, biopsy can easily detect chloroform or ether both in lung and liver tissues.

 

[Armstrong]

@Pakistanisage - You didn't answer my question ?

 

[Slav Defence]

He could have carried anything. Chloroform or ether are easily available from the hardware stores whereas Methanol or more volatile Ethanol or Iso-Propanol etc. has no value as sedative. Besides, biopsy can easily detect chloroform or ether both in lung and liver tissues.

Methanol is mainly classified as CNS drug?
Have you seen that report?
Besides,we are unable to get psyche of Rashid Minhas at that time,shock+anxiety+pressure+depression+patriotism=Plane crash .It was really hard for him to take decision at that time,as pakistanisage sir mentioned,that he doesn't have parachute as well,and he was placed at rear seat.There was immense fight,less time and brain needed fast processing as well.

regards

 

[Pakistanisage]

@Pakistanisage - You didn't answer my question ?

Sorry Mate, I must have missed that.

Was it on this thread ? Post # ?

 

[syedali73]

Methanol is mainly classified as CNS drug?
Have you seen that report?
Besides,we are unable to get psyche of Rashid Minhas at that time,shock+anxiety+pressure+depression+patriotism=Plane crash .It was really hard for him to take decision at that time,as pakistanisage sir mentioned,that he doesn't have parachute as well,and he was placed at rear seat.There was immense fight,less time and brain needed fast processing as well.

regards

Methanol is CNS depressant but only when ingested and at-least mouthful (~25 - 50mL). Extremely low volatility of Methanol renders it useless as inhalant anesthetic agent not to mention it is toxic.

 

[Armstrong]

Sorry Mate, I must have missed that.

Was it on this thread ? Post # ?

Post # 36

REMEMBERING MY SENIOR SIR RASHID MINHAS | Page 3

 

[Slav Defence]

Methanol is CNS depressant but only when ingested and at-least mouthful (~25 - 50mL). Extremely low volatility of Methanol renders it useless as inhalant anesthetic agent not to mention it is toxic.

So,there might be toxic effects?
That is why I am asking that why are you so sure that as if he was treated with chloroform,he might be treated with other compound.Besides,the plane might have crashed from height and this indicates huge explosion,which means that compound inside his body via nasal or oral intake would have remained in same condition.The compound would have begun to metabolize and further explosion and shock means further degradable changes due to heat?
So,even if were able to recover dead body,the chances to attain traces of compound would have been affected and eventhough if recovered,then in converted form?
regards

 

[Pakistanisage]

@Pakistanisage - I will never understand what exactly prompted the Bengalis to go for such wide-scale defections; how do you go from being a patriot one moment to a traitor the next with such conviction ?

And were there any Pro-Pakistan Bengalis through it all who accepted that the crackdown in East-Pakistan was wrong and morally reprehensible but still refused to betray Pakistan ?

There were Bengalis who were staunchly Pro Pakistan and others who were with Mujib ur Rehman and had become Anti - Pakistan. Then there were many who were in the middle.

Even in the PAF, most Bengali officers in West Pakistan did not support Sabotage activities and just wanted to return home.

As we know from history, East Pakistan situation was mishandled on occasions and there were constant grumblings in those days.

Anyway, this is all history now.

 

[syedali73]

So,there might be toxic effects?
That is why I am asking that why are you so sure that as if he was treated with chloroform,he might be treated with other compound.Besides,the plane might have crashed from height and this indicates huge explosion,which means that compound inside his body via nasal or oral intake would have remained in same condition.The compound would have begun to metabolize and further explosion and shock means further degradable changes due to heat?
So,even if were able to recover dead body,the chances to attain traces of compound would have been affected and eventhough if recovered,then in converted form?
regards

Methanol by itself is not toxic, its metabolites are. Methanol is metabolized by two liver enzymes called alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase. These enzymes metabolize methanol into formaldehyde and formic acid respectively, both are toxic. In autopsy, we do not look for original substance(s) per se but its metabolites, for the presence of these metabolites in fluids and tissues indicates the exposure to toxicants. Obviously under normal circumstances these metabolites are not present in the body.

 

[Slav Defence]

Methanol by itself is not toxic, its metabolites are. Methanol is metabolized by two liver enzymes called alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase. These enzymes metabolize methanol into formaldehyde and formic acid respectively, both are toxic. In autopsy, we do not look for original substance(s) per se but its metabolites, for the presence of these metabolites in fluids and tissues indicates the exposure to toxicants. Obviously under normal circumstances these metabolites are not present in the body.

So,it is again understandable that methanol,if taken could be broken down into metabolites,where as further stress conditions would have further affected-but it is again just an assumption.The list I have posted earlier as an alternative,should be considered as well.Besides the chemical concentration,state of matter is something which has it's own importance.Besides,environmental condition such as stress,and extreme cases such as explosion,would have affected upon chemical traces.

regards

 

[Shamain]

Methanol by itself is not toxic, its metabolites are. Methanol is metabolized by two liver enzymes called alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase. These enzymes metabolize methanol into formaldehyde and formic acid respectively, both are toxic. In autopsy, we do not look for original substance(s) per se but its metabolites, for the presence of these metabolites in fluids and tissues indicates the exposure to toxicants. Obviously under normal circumstances these metabolites are not present in the body.

Sir external heat cannot effect the rate of metabolism or it can?. So explosion or no explosion (i know in autospies original compounds are not sought,its the metabolized or degraded substances or whatever u call them are considered to determine what substance orignially wud have been used, hence, sometimes vagueness also looms in some cases), the inhalants would have metabolized in the body just as in normal circumstances.?

Secondly, the blog said the use of cholorform was circumstancial evidence ,but had they performed autopsy on him?