Religious Freedom from Hindu perspective

[russellpeters]

The abrahamic religions are essentially originally tribal. I mean to say they always had this concept of believers, "People of the Book" etc.. there is marked distinction between pagan and christian, gentile and Jew, People of the Book and Dhimmis. This attitude is markedly present in all the three religions.You are either in or out.

Unlike that Hinduism doesnt give much weight to ideological loyalty. You can be hindu and as you say "innovate", something which is forbidden in Islam.Here there is absolute freedom.My parents are deeply spiritual, but not religious. Unlike muslims, most middle class young people rarely go to temples.I dont know any friend who goes to temples regularly.We do not talk about religion among ourselves, most "hindus" have no knowledge about their religion as their parents have no obligation to teach anything. Any general knowledge they might have is mainly from watching televised dramas on T.V. about religious characters. Most people dont read scriptures, and even if some of the read, they usually know only how to recite the sanskrit verses, but dont know the meaning. I know some of south Indian friends where veda recital is still a big thing, but they dont know what they are reciting . I on the other hand with my humble knowledge of sanskrit, know much more than they do...irony...

In hinduism certain section of our philosophical spectrum have embraced atheistic/agnostic flavours. Now there are the famous Charvaks, atheists in other words. Buddhism and Jainism, i consider to be parts of Hinduism, which are agnostic/atheist to a good point. Now the famous philosophies of India like Yoga are non-theistic (they dont recognise the idea of a Deity) and so is vedanta.

If anything in hinduism approaches the theistic values of the Abrahamic religions, in sense of a God and a worshipper, it is certainly bhakti tradition. There are many traditions in Hinduism.One is free to choose anything.

Summing up most hindus are cultural not religious.Hinduism is a culture, not a religion.

 

[Subramanian]

Guys Islam don't claim that all religions lead to same destination and acceptance of all religions as valid and i don't mind if some of you think Islam is alien to Hinduism because i think its true . I was just commenting the original poster and his claim that Hinduism accept all religions as valid because if you accept some roads/paths as valid then you don't hesitate to walk on that road when you also believe that these roads will lead you to right destination..second when you accept a religion valid then you don't hesitate to follow the teaching of that religions but you follow Hinduism and its culture prove that this claim of acceptance of other religions is not true

well you answered your question yourself,

if the road i am travelling has so much traffic,so many signals and no u turn,no left right signals, just a one way road,so thats why we dont care if someone wants to take that road and head straight into wherever it takes them but we would not take that path.

Even if the destination is the same,the journey also has to make sense else it is no fun.

 

[russellpeters]

to the many way - one destination guy . I will give you one simple answer.

thousands of people go to hospital. are their diseases same ?

NO !

do the doctors give same medicine to everyone ?

NO!

but all become HEALTHY !

So what will happen if I give cough medicine to cancer patient ? or chemotherapy to guy with cough ?

Saying one true way is like saying one true medicine. No **** like that. that is patent craziness.

think for a while.

In Hinduism everyone is given path according to the 'disease'...some people are more sensitive to emotion so give them bhakti yoga, some are intellectual give them jnan yoga, some are atheists go on buddhas path, some are action oriented do karma yoga.

We dont shove down one ideology down somebody's throat. We are not interested in the medicine, in the way, in the belief.

Health is our goal. The cat should kill the mice, doesnt matter whether it white or black.

We are not interested in controlling people, do this do that. We are interested in human bliss.

We are not interested in societies, christendoms, ummahs. We are interested in the individual. society is imaginary, individual is real.

We are not interested in beliefs, credo, or an Proclamation of our faith. We are not interested in doctrine, religion or philosophy. we are interested in liberation.

To say everyone should follow one thing is as silly as saying one medicine will work for all diseases.

This is the idea of religious freedom. In my sense however, religion and freedom dont go together.
Freedom is absolute, religion is against freedom. Do this, do that, go here go there, say this say that.

 

[ashokdeiva]

that's what i am saying that if all three roads lead to same destination then it should not matter to you which road you chose..but here i see that you guys are stick to one particular road and dont wish to try/accept other two roads when they also lead to same destination..why?

what is your idocracy mate.
for 1000 of years our ansystors have taought of a way on how to live and you want us to folllow some other because we belive all path take us to the same destination. Just don't try to be smart with us.
is this what Islam teaches you when it comes to tolerance. that is the reason why you see a lot of violance in your day to day life when compared to the rest of the other religion.

You are making me troll.

 

[ashokdeiva]

Guys Islam don't claim that all religions lead to same destination and acceptance of all religions as valid and i don't mind if some of you think Islam is alien to Hinduism because i think its true . I was just commenting the original poster and his claim that Hinduism accept all religions as valid because if you accept some roads/paths as valid then you don't hesitate to walk on that road when you also believe that these roads will lead you to right destination..second when you accept a religion valid then you don't hesitate to follow the teaching of that religions but you follow Hinduism and its culture prove that this claim of acceptance of other religions is not true

that is exactly the reason that Hidusim tolerated when a lot of people were converted to ISLAM by force and by will before Independance and that is the reason we still tolerate when our strenght in present day INDIA is reduced because forigne funded Cristian preachers are converting our people.

We have been the single largest Religion that gave a lot of its people to make sure other religion such as Budhism, Janism, Sikism, Islam and Christianity florished in the first place.

if you are still asking why the rest of the Hindus are not getting converted, then it shows that you have a sinster motive of killing the existance of a pre-historic religon so that yours can florish.

this is were Hindusim and the other Dharmic religions stand apart when compared to Abrahamic religion.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

The abrahamic religions are essentially originally tribal. I mean to say they always had this concept of believers, "People of the Book" etc.. there is marked distinction between pagan and christian, gentile and Jew, People of the Book and Dhimmis. This attitude is markedly present in all the three religions.You are either in or out.
...

That was initially so because each set of teaching descended for one nation at one point in history. Now, with no more descending, current Islam is open to anybody. Our rasuul is the nabii ummii, ummii in common parlance meaning mother but also untaught people, by which we can take to mean gentiles or non-3imraaniiyuun (3imraan A.S. being the forefather of Ibraahiim A.S).

Our affinity with the other people of the book could be tracked to the recognition of the same Divinity and their lateness i.e. having had less time for the descended teaching to be completely lost. And only God knows best.

dhimmii is a person in your responsibility (you might've heard the Urdu-Farsi word "dhimmadaar/zimmadaar" i.e. "responsable for" commonly heard in Northern India). The dhimmiyuun can be from among my relatives even if they're from the people of the Book.

 

[blooboy]

that is exactly the reason that Hidusim tolerated when a lot of people were converted to ISLAM by force and by will before Independance and that is the reason we still tolerate when our strenght in present day INDIA is reduced because forigne funded Cristian preachers are converting our people..

brother, in almost every other post you are showing your hatred towards Christians. Be kind to us dear.

 

[ashokdeiva]

brother, in almost every other post you are showing your hatred towards Christians. Be kind to us dear.

sorry brother, I do not hate the Chirstians or any human being for what they are and what they belive. You have accpeted in one of your earlier post that there are certain sects of CHISTIANS who do the preaching and bring bad name to CHRISTIANITY. I am against those forigne funded organization that is fueling the communal tension between all the religions of our MIGHTY NATION.

 

[russellpeters]

That was initially so because each set of teaching descended for one nation at one point in history. Now, with no more descending, current Islam is open to anybody. Our rasuul is the nabii ummii, ummii in common parlance meaning mother but also untaught people, by which we can take to mean gentiles or non-3imraaniiyuun (3imraan A.S. being the forefather of Ibraahiim A.S).

Our affinity with the other people of the book could be tracked to the recognition of the same Divinity and their lateness i.e. having had less time for the descended teaching to be completely lost. And only God knows best.

dhimmii is a person in your responsibility (you might've heard the Urdu-Farsi word "dhimmadaar/zimmadaar" i.e. "responsable for" commonly heard in Northern India). The dhimmiyuun can be from among my relatives even if they're from the people of the Book.

I am not sure you got my point.

there is a marked sense of superiority in each abrahamic religion, the first sign of tribalism. "we are better"

there is an idea of religious community which is exclusive, ummah, christendom etc. more tribalism

there is the idea that they are going to be rewarded for belief in the religion

such things are absent in dharmic religions. i cringe at the word hinduism. i prefer dharmic.

we do not promise heaven to any hindu. God if any must be thankful.

we do not condemn non-hindus to hell. Satan, if any must be thankful for this too.

as what i see christians everywhere are busy condemning others to hell. Muslims have greater ideological humility in this regard. I gather that you believe only Allah knows best. fundamentalist christians are busy making waiting lists.

we do not see heaven and hell as permanent residences. the logic being that, however good you are, your good actions can only be finite. finite actions can produce only finite results. hence the stay in heaven or hell can only be finite.

i of course do not believe in either God or hell/heaven. my parents and community have no issues.
that is the beauty of dharmic religions...

bet it has been destroyed by things such as the caste system. in my view caste system prevailed because Indian society failed to evolve a new social model over the centuries. most ancient civilizations had caste-type systems. they evolved with time. we didnt.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I think you guys are just twisting some words and creating confusions. I was giving comment on opening post which said that Hinduism is all about acceptance of different religions as valid which also take you to same destination. Now it did not say paths/roads other than Hinduism are difficult road which make it hard to reach at destination the way you guys twisted it here. The practising hindu is very much same as practising Muslims or Christians who consider his religion/path/road as true/valid and that's why stick to it for the rest of his life.

If you claim of acceptance of different religions and have no doubt on their validity then it don't make sense for you to follow and stick with one. For example you should not mind to start believe in one God Allah and prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and other teaching of Islam because you consider Islam as valid religion but a practising Hindu will never do this and will stick to gita instead of Quran for guidance . Different religions have different conflicting ideas and teach totally opposite things when it come to God/prophets/life hereafter and how you should lead your life etc and and you consider all of them as valid. So if one religion say God is one and other religion say God exist in many forms and shape. They boht true and valid . Is that make sense? lol

Steelman @ Dude kafir is not insulting word. It simply refer to someone who rejected Islam after knowing what Islam is

ashokdeiva @ I am having debate in civilised manner and you call it trolling lol and calm down i am not asking anyone to convert into Islam. I was just questioning the few points raised in opening post. I have tolerance and respect for different religions. You can tolerate and respect religions even if you don't accept their teaching as valid or true.

 

[russellpeters]

I think you guys are just twisting some words and creating confusions. I was giving comment on opening post which said that Hinduism is all about acceptance of different religions as valid which also take you to same destination. Now it did not say paths/roads other than Hinduism are difficult road which make it hard to reach at destination the way you guys twisted it here. The practising hindu is very much same as practising Muslims or Christians who consider his religion/path/road as true/valid and that's why stick to it for the rest of his life.

If you claim of acceptance of different religions and have no doubt on their validity then it don't make sense for you to follow and stick with one. For example you should not mind to start believe in one God Allah and prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and other teaching of Islam because you consider Islam as valid religion but a practising Hindu will never do this and will stick to gita instead of Quran for guidance . Different religions have different conflicting ideas and teach totally opposite things when it come to God/prophets/life hereafter and how you should lead your life etc and and you consider all of them as valid. So if one religion say God is one and other religion say God exist in many forms and shape. They boht true and valid . Is that make sense? lol

Does that make sense ? of course it does.

Steel is used to make boilers, towers, nails and surgical instruments. yet steel is the same.

Our God is not a boring god. Every day dosa illa. like a balanced diet, we have a balanced religion. something for everyone.

not to offend , but you are offering me third standard baccha's logic...

ekam sat viprah bahuda vadanti.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Does that make sense ? of course it does.

Steel is used to make boilers, towers, nails and surgical instruments. yet steel is the same.

Our God is not a boring god. Every day dosa illa. like a balanced diet, we have a balanced religion. something for everyone.

not to offend , but you are offering me third standard baccha's logic...

ekam sat viprah bahuda vadanti.

Sorry but for me your logic is flawed

if one guy say 1 +1=2
and another one say 1+1=3

they boht are true and valid as per your adult logic

we know different religions views God/life hereafter,prophets/angels/, heaven, hell etc differently and you consider all as valid and true. So God is one is true as well as God is in many forms. Jesus is prophet is true and valid as well as Jesus is son of God.

Its not balance its confusions by considering all conflicting ideas as true

 

[Subramanian]

I think you guys are just twisting some words and creating confusions. I was giving comment on opening post which said that Hinduism is all about acceptance of different religions as valid which also take you to same destination. Now it did not say paths/roads other than Hinduism are difficult road which make it hard to reach at destination the way you guys twisted it here. The practising hindu is very much same as practising Muslims or Christians who consider his religion/path/road as true/valid and that's why stick to it for the rest of his life.

If you claim of acceptance of different religions and have no doubt on their validity then it don't make sense for you to follow and stick with one. For example you should not mind to start believe in one God Allah and prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and other teaching of Islam because you consider Islam as valid religion but a practising Hindu will never do this and will stick to gita instead of Quran for guidance . Different religions have different conflicting ideas and teach totally opposite things when it come to God/prophets/life hereafter and how you should lead your life etc and and you consider all of them as valid. So if one religion say God is one and other religion say God exist in many forms and shape. They boht true and valid . Is that make sense? lol

Steelman @ Dude kafir is not insulting word. It simply refer to someone who rejected Islam after knowing what Islam is

ashokdeiva @ I am having debate in civilised manner and you call it trolling lol and calm down i am not asking anyone to convert into Islam. I was just questioning the few points raised in opening post. I have tolerance and respect for different religions. You can tolerate and respect religions even if you don't accept their teaching as valid or true.

Oye Janjue

Baat yeh hain, hum aaj ek cheez sochenge aur kal ek aur,duniya badalti rehti hain aur hamari soch bhi aur humein sochon ke hisaab se badalne ki inquillab chahiye,

bas itte hi.

---------- Post added at 01:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 AM ----------

Sorry but for me your logic is flawed

if one guy say 1 +1=2
and another one say 1+1=3

they boht are true and valid as per your adult logic

we know different religions views God/life hereafter,prophets/angels/, heaven, hell etc differently and you consider all as valid and true. So God is one is true as well as God is in many forms. Jesus is prophet is true and valid as well as Jesus is son of God.

Its not balance its confusions by considering all conflicting ideas as true

yeh sab timepass hain,

seedhi baat,

main yeh sochta hoon ki pakistan log politics ke wajhaye islam follow karte hain, jo jatt hain,jo rajput hain uska toh sona hain,chandi hain, aur baaki sab ka kuch bacha nahin hain,

aur yeh hi jawaab hain.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Zakir Naik must be hanged for ******* up many people's intelligence

i am sure you never read my views about Zakir naik but any way its common sense

 

[Speaker]

Abrahamic religions give you doctrines, whereas Dharmic religions give you guidelines. Muslims/Christians/Jews are given a very good idea of what the truth or the ideal path is, whereas we are encouraged to find the truth and enlightenment ourselves. In a crude sense, it is the difference between giving a man a fish, or teaching him how to fish. My religion doesn't prohibit me from any of the customs that Muslims or Christians follow, but to convert to that religion would be akin to giving up my ability to fish and eat the same thing everyday. In my way, I can eat whatever I want, or whatever leads to my discovery of the "truth". If someone likes a particular kind of fish so much that they willingly convert, it is up to them. But what people are/should be against are the forced conversions for demographic/political gains.

You can tolerate and respect religions even if you don't accept their teaching as valid or true.

Hindus believe everyone's religion is valid, while you simply let us be even if we follow an "invalid" religion. Tolerance and education may prevent you from acting against non-believers, but at the back of your mind, you will always consider them inferior. This is not meant to be a criticism of your beliefs, just something to think about.