I beg to pardon, but religion is also an ideology. Because it influence not only to the belief system of a person, but also his way of life. Which include but not only political view and culture. A religion follower can dispose his own cultural identity and absorbed into the culture of where the religion come from. A religion sect who has a lot of followers can even force a country to acknowledge their will. That's why religion is an ideology. They have a very powerful political power when they have a lot of followers in a country.
But at the same time, Communism is also a religion in their own way.
Very good point, precisely why China in the arc of history and beyond has not and never will adopt Islam or any other major religion or ideology (including communism) in its original form. I do agree with learning from major civilisations and pick out its wisdom and not adopt it wholesale. Hypothetically if China as a whole becomes Islamic it will be so far removed from traditional Islam that the Chinese sect will be seen as apostates as can be seen in Chinese Muslims outside of Northwestern China which is on the periphery of China. I'm from the North East (a well integrated melting pot of ethnicities) and home to many Hui Muslims and they would be considered apostates by DADY's definition because at heart they are no different than mainstream Han.
China will always be China, the last 5000 years showed that. China will always change and evolve, the China yesterday is not the China today and the China today will not the be China in the future but there is a cultural arc that stretches throughout time in China. The grinding stone of Chinese culture is history, we are a people that have gone through and survived at least 4 major population and social collapses where a quarter to half of the population died. When we are in dire times we look to our ancestors for guidance, not just in some spiritual way talking to our ancestor's ghosts but actually reading and studying what they have experienced and how they overcame the struggles(the book burnings that occur in different dynasties pisses me off for that reason, its lost wisdom), thats why we attribute our culture to be 5000 years old, its when our ancestors started to document their culture and stories. China's story is not just about how to survive because every culture that exists now are survivors but how they managed to put back the broken pieces and rebuild. We look to our ancestors in dire times, our ancestors were not Islamic, we can learn from other cultures but we cannot become the other cultures because those it wouldn't help us survive a cyclical societal collapse or prosper, especially Abraham religions which doesn't have the collective conscience that is suitable for social geography of the central plans and southern hills (I can explain that in another post).
Still East Asia genius.
They do mingle with locals, I should know, I was one of them.
In this context is all about culture, South East Asia is very different from East Asia. China, Korea, and Japan have similar cultural themes to some extent Mongolia. Very different from countries like Indonesia.
Why would we change anything?
Its the faith of over 1.7 billion people and growing quick spread over 50 muslim majority states and major minorities across the planet
Its the future for billions
And you shouldn't change just because others are asking you to change, take the path that is best for you and your people, the Chinese are not asking you to change anything and others shouldn't impose themselves upon China, thats the philosophy. Chinese culture don't take pride in changing others's way of life since it views other ways of life unique and there is a reason it exists, it is a byproduct of their unique environment. Imposing a Chinese way of life upon others would bring disharmony to this world. Its great that 1.7 billion people experiencing fulfilment in their lives and achieving development through Islam.
The Chinese should learn from Islam, and have a lot to learn from Islam. After the fall of comunism, peoples morals and values plumeted. So their response has been to push Budism, and Daoism, hoping to replace the virtues of comunism, but that is not likely to get you anywhere as you can see with Taiwan, and Hong Kong. The only thing they can become are pupets for the west. Budism, and Daoism wont save you from western decadence as it hasn't done so for HK, or TW. On the other hand, some of the most brilliant civilizations have been Muslim, ie Persia, Arabia, Egypt, Otoman, and even India's most valuable eras have been Islamic in nature. As far as I can see, some of the least decadent countries are Islamic, and they have championed family values much more than Daoist/Budist HK&TW where family values have faded away and women are loose. Even when you visit the Islamic parts of China, the people seem more civilized, especially when you compare them to Shanghai, and Guangzhou where crime is up, and family values are down. Most western historians will not argue that Greece and Rome couldn't have made it without technology acquired from Muslim countries.
Christianity, however, is likely to bring trouble to China, and pretty much has dating back to the Qing.
Thats quite a high and mighty tone you have.
Only Allah can be the judge.
I have comments on a few points you've made:
1. Communism was never achieved and not likely to or was ever proclaimed to be achieved, so there was no fall (didn't functionally exist in the first place) but if you were referring to collapse of USSR then China already broke relations in 1962 or 1979 market reforms then sure that incentivized certain parts of the population to be more predatory and opportunistic. Now thinking back it was a by product of development, from the Chinese perspective it was terrible but worth it, others are free to say differently. In addition market reforms are only part of it, the CCP still holds substantial power (hybrid system).
2. In terms of development the Mainland actually wants to learn from HK and Taiwan in areas such as international finance and integrated circuits respectively. China wouldn't emulate their governming system or all aspects of their society but technologies and institutions are great tools. Sure they can be viewed as "puppets of the west" and sometimes overly liberal from the Mainland but they are more seen as brothers who went overseas to study but have also been indoctrinated to view their family back home with disdain which frustrates the Mainland.
3. "On the other hand, some of the most brilliant civilizations have been Muslim, ie Persia, Arabia, Egypt, Otoman, and even India's most valuable eras have been Islamic in nature." Sure, I did presentations on pre and post Islamic Architecture on those civilisations and I think post Islamic architectural design are of a higher quality than pre-Islamic due to its geometric designs and others aspects which presents to me a high degree of mastery in mathematics, and indicator of a brilliant civilisation.
4. Everyone's definition of decadent is different including between Muslims unless of course you prescribe to Wahhabism and consider those "muslims" apostates. In that case, that definition would have little appeal outside of self isolating communities and would be incompatible with modern China. China also had backward practices like feet binding of women, it was tradition but rejected due to societal progression. Not all traditions are compatible with modernity, thats if you want modernity.
5. I don't have statistics but from my personal experience many third tier cities and second tier cities in western China don't feel as safe as Shanghai or Beijing. Guangzhou is another story due to foreign influx, I do think it has a higher crime rate compared to similar cities in China. Statics do show overall China has one of the lowest homicide rates in the world lower than most Islamic countries and I don't attribute murder rates to religion. I'm trying to say that religion and your definition of decadency doesn't have much relation with crime (my pick of crime category)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Islam not stop you from following your culture, Islam is not Arabism, you can wear your Chinese modest dress, women can add their own style of head scarf (Many Muslim countries have their own types of Muslims scarfs, even xinjiang female wear different scarfs then Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistani ladies), Pakistan and Bharat have special type of Muslim music called "Qawali" which you will not find anywhere else in Muslim world (they have their own types), This is result of fussion of religion and culture in subcontinent. Similarly you can enjoy Chinese cuisine with halal meat. I dont see any problem.. You can enjoy Chinese poetry and Music as long as its not lewd erotic and immoral. You can have your cultural dances like all Muslim regions have their own but point is it shouldnt be lewd, erotic and immoral.
The fact that some are saying Chinese "can add their own style of head scarf" is imposing a foreign culture upon China and makes many people uncomfortable, sure they can and should do this when they visit an Islamic country because we respect your culture but will not do so at home. The issue is not the design of the scarf but the scarf itself. Actually many Chinese women used to wear scarfs many years ago as a fashion statement and for practicality but nowadays if they know its a religions symbol they would be more reluctant to do so. Women should have the freedom to choose their fashion within boundaries of course, there are moral codes and indecency laws in China but its different than Islamic countries, even Islamic countries have big differences and some would even consider those haram. Again, "you can enjoy chinese poetry and music as long as its not lewd erotic and immoral." " you can have your cultral dances like Muslim regions have their own but point is it shouldn't be lewd, erotic and immoral", this is the very reason why Islam is facing opposition in many "liberal" countries. It is very important to be self aware of one's actions and how others percieve it. To non-Islamic countries Islam is not the center of society and they dont like to be dictated on how to live by a foreign religion. Would you like to be told how to dress and what parts of your traditional culture you can or cannot enjoy? How can Chinese people and guests from around the world enjoy Chinese food when pork is not allowed? It is a major part of Chinese cuisine. Islam is rooted in the deserts of Arabia, I respect pork was prohibited in Arabia, its not a suitable place for dirty pigs as they can spread germs quickly in the heat and produce unimaginable stench. But I'm not from Arabia, I'm from North Eastern China, the climate is like Siberia and we get Siberian winds that can send temperatures down to -40C, I need an energy rich diet to stay healthy and feed our big bodies in that climate we eat sausages and drink vodka, do you have a problem with Russians too?
Kapitalist shils lack vision, and have limited sight. The question you should ask yourself is, where was the west? For thousands of years, the west was irrelevant and backwards. It was only in the past 300 years that the west had come to power. So if you look at 5000 yrs of man's history. 300/500
I wouldn't say the roman and greek empires was irrelevant and backwards, the infrastructure and culture of their civilisation still stands today, while true that they didn't dominate the world then like they did in the industrial era, it is still very wrong to say they were irrelevant.
Were not going to start eating dog and squinting our eyes to make you feel better.
Refusing to respect someones right to their own beleifs and culture will only bring more hatred and disrespect for yours
I have not seen Chinese members saying Pakistan shouldn't be Islamic or refusing to respect your right to your beliefs and culture. We are happy that you are proud of your culture. The whole point the members were making was that it is wrong to impose one's own culture upon another. It is wrong for Chinese people to impose their culture upon Muslims just like it is wrong for Muslims to impose their culture upon others. Its just that many people have noticed a tendency of Muslims imposing their culture upon others in a ever stricter way.
It is clear your feelings have been hurt and feel attacked but this world is vast and different people have different origins, histories, and cultures. I apologise on behalf of fellow members if any lies have been told or bad behaviour but its wise to be self aware.
I gotta ask how old are you? I am 22 btw.
You don't see China saying to the Islamic world that they should live a certain way because they have the moral high ground because Chinese civilisation fundamentally thinks this world is a diverse ecosystem with differing ways of life in which the harmony should not be disturbed. I have said this before, don't mistake Chinese people's humbleness as an opportunity for you to take advantage of. It is just a sign of respect to your culture and civilisation and please reciprocate or the respect will be eroded. Poking China would be poking the hornest nest, just unnecessary but people poke anyways because it looks like nothing is going on. I hope Muslim friends do not persue the dream of converting China into an Islamic state as i have seen being discussed by certain members on this forum, it will turn out really ugly for China-Islamic relations. China has seen lots in its history and invaders are either Chinese now or non existent in China. Muslims have contributed to China historically in many ways and we don't look at them as muslims or some outsiders, to us they are just Chinese part of the big family in the Middle Kingdom, if they are foreign they are seen as Arabs, Persians, Turks, Jews, etc. and not defined by their religion. Their religious affiliation is a private matter. In fact many Persians from old Persia escaped to China during Islamic invasion and assimilatted with the Han. Ones that try to impose an foreign ideology in China like Anlushan tried to establish an Islamic caliphate during the Tang dynasty resulted in a 7 year long civil war, 20 million dead. Tang dynasty was also the most socially open dynasty in Chinese history with many Persians, Arabs, Japanese, Turks, Jews and other serving in the Chinese court and in trade brought to an end by Anlushan. After that the Tang still survived but its people became much more conservative towards outsiders. I guess you can call it China's experiment with liberalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion
Don't mistake this as China hating Muslims, its just that we have experienced so much and so many combinations in our history that we are aware of that we can forecast events based on historical precedent.
A interesting story is the story of the Mooncake and how it helped citizens during the Yuan dynasty overthrow the mongols. Mongols thought the Chinese were passive so they oppressed them with policies like one knife per village chained to the well. When in reality they were passing messages in mooncakes and then got hold of the one knife and chopped up the mongols all across china, overthrowing them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooncake
I urge Muslims friends to live and let live. In fact it is deeply disturbing to non-Muslims around the world that there are people out there dead set on making the world mono-theistic. Seek to understand others first and help from a genuine place, not a egotistical moral high ground.
Also would like to add that Chinese in general have a strong sense of history and what place in history that person currently occupies, we are confident in ourselves in overcoming anything but that might cause some of my comments can come across as defensive, offensive or hurtful. Its just another way of looking at things and its not coming from a hateful place. In fact when you understand the cycles of history you will start to look at things more neutrally and understand that there are certain laws of nature.
