Religions must be Chinese in orientation: official

[Cherokee]

You seem to think you can, given the fact that people can't wear what they want according to you.

Looks like I will have to spend some time to deconstruct this verbal gymnastics. This is one of the reasons why I rarely post over here. Here it goes:
----> You can by the law actually enforce by law what people wear in public. That law is decided by elected representatives. Feel free to play ninja-ninja in the privacy of your home. If you don't agree with the law vote for someone who will make it acceptable to move like ninjas in public. When enough people do it will be acceptable.

 

[mike2000 is back]

The Burqa is Islamic in origin.

Not really. The hijab yes maybe, Burqa NO. Burqa is more cultural than religious.
http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_3/the_burqa_(P1357).html

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252Firan%252Fcomments%252F3qz34e%252F

 

[313ghazi]

I think @Luffy 500 is free to give his opinion just like all of us here have been doing. I know that some of his points might be controversialand many people here might be uneasy about his comments. However, I dont think we should be brushing aside what he has to say, he did make some good point and to be honest he is right about the points he made about Islam and Muslims as I stated earlier as well.

I understand some Muslim members here might be uncomfortable with that since it involves China, but they shouldn't necessarily brush aside what he is saying. We are all here to exchange views and learn from each other., that's what this forum is about and that's what makes it interesting.

I think you misunderstand where i'm going. What I want to know is where this conversation is going to go. There are a lot of people who half say a lot of things. I think it'd be better if people said less and said more fully what they want to say.

I think there is some jumping down throats going on here. First and foremost there is an assumption about what the statement means. Secondly there is this really wierd conversation between some Muslims who want to convince secularist Chinese that their whole social structure is wrong and evil and our is better. This is all done with a defensive/aggressive tone. On the other side you get a load of chinese who are under the assumption that we're all looking to impose dominion over them and take away the pork...lol

TBH i'm a bit bored of the circles.

When i read some of the responses here initially - i was a little surprised and took it for islamaphobia. After having asked and talked to people rather than preached (i know this post makes me a hypocrite) i learnt;

- Chinese seem to dislike religion altogether
- They are an insular society by design
- they think their stability is built around conforming
- they think Muslims are the missionary in their approach to religion
- they think religious identity cannot co-exist with political or national identity.

Take that into account, am i going to preach religion to them? I'd rather tackle the misconceptions about my religion. Others are free to try and sell the virtues of organised religion to a people who have been taught to be wary of it.

@dsr478 made a good point about the alleged ban on the Quran, prayer mats, calling babies Muhammad etc. He called it oppression. if it's true - it is oppression. Previously i've been led to believe most of these accusations come from 1 anti chinese source.

Also did you learn all about Islam in the middle east or on tour somewhere? It seems pretty... that way orientated.

Not at all.

The practice is considered praiseworthy to us, banning it is just silly.

All you can do is say that for identification purposes, a women wearing one must reveal her face to another women. Anything more than that is unacceptable.

Only the salafi's consider it a requirement of purdah. Most other people don't wear veils as a religious requirement. Plenty of people choose to wear them, but don't consider them an essential of purdah.

 

[Hamza913]

Not really. The hijab yes maybe, Burqa NO. Burqa is more cultural than religious.
http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_3/the_burqa_(P1357).html

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252Firan%252Fcomments%252F3qz34e%252F

Are you really going to try and argue it has nothing to do with Islam? Really?

I'll cede to the point it may be non Islamic in origin, but it's Islamically approved of and rewarded. An honest look at Islamic sources will tell you this.

I think you misunderstand where i'm going. What I want to know is where this conversation is going to go. There are a lot of people who half say a lot of things. I think it'd be better if people said less and said more fully what they want to say.

I think there is some jumping down throats going on here. First and foremost there is an assumption about what the statement means. Secondly there is this really wierd conversation between some Muslims who want to convince secularist Chinese that their whole social structure is wrong and evil and our is better. This is all done with a defensive/aggressive tone. On the other side you get a load of chinese who are under the assumption that we're all looking to impose dominion over them and take away the pork...lol

TBH i'm a bit bored of the circles.

When i read some of the responses here initially - i was a little surprised and took it for islamaphobia. After having asked and talked to people rather than preached (i know this post makes me a hypocrite) i learnt;

- Chinese seem to dislike religion altogether
- They are an insular society by design
- they think their stability is built around conforming
- they think Muslims are the missionary in their approach to religion
- they think religious identity cannot co-exist with political or national identity.

Take that into account, am i going to preach religion to them? I'd rather tackle the misconceptions about my religion. Others are free to try and sell the virtues of organised religion to a people who have been taught to be wary of it.

@dsr478 made a good point about the alleged ban on the Quran, prayer mats, calling babies Muhammad etc. He called it oppression. if it's true - it is oppression. Previously i've been led to believe most of these accusations come from 1 anti chinese source.

Also did you learn all about Islam in the middle east or on tour somewhere? It seems pretty... that way orientated.



Only to the salafi's. Most other people don't wear veils as a religious requirement. Plenty of people choose to wear them, but don't consider them an essential of purdah.

It's not necessarily essential, but it's considered praiseworthy to wear it.

And I am a Salafi, so obviously I'm talking from a Salafi viewpoint.

 

[nang2]

I am fine with burqa ban. Face is the most important identity of a person. If a person has to cover his face for a practical purpose, such as being sick or too cold, that is fine. But it is not fine to do so in public places for other reasons. Presenting one's identity in public places is essential for building trust that is badly needed to form a society.

 

[Hamza913]

Looks like I will have to spend some time to deconstruct this verbal gymnastics. This is one of the reasons why I rarely post over here. Here it goes:
----> You can by the law actually enforce by law what people wear in public. That law is decided by elected representatives. Feel free to play ninja-ninja in the privacy of your home. If you don't agree with the law vote for someone who will make it acceptable to move like ninjas in public. When enough people do it will be acceptable.

If it doesn't object to state security, then what's the point? That's oppression is it not?

 

[313ghazi]

Your country , your rule, we don't want to talk about it and we believe we are in no position to do so either.

@dsr478 @

[QUOTE="dsr478, post: 9965098, member: 172087"］

Your government are forcing people to accept their beliefs. You are banning people in Xinjiang from naming their kids Muhammad, and taking away their Quran's.
us
That's oppression and completely unjustified.

I think you should go to Xinjiang before you talked about so much.
For the naming issue, i have to say there are limitation of naming Children after a religious figure. No matter Chinese non-muslim or Chinese muslim. That is the law everyone should abide by.
As for the Quran, could you even think about its feasibility ？How to take away their Quran's? Send the policemen to search every corners of the muslim people's house door by door ? Plus delete any Quran electronic documents stored in the computers or cellphones ?
It seems that you tend to believe any news no matter how ridiculous it is about muslim being oppressed or abused and doubt anything negative about muslim people.[/QUOTE]

I think that law is opressive... certainly overly instrusive into the liberty of the individual.

 

[Hamza913]

I am fine with burqa ban. Face is the most important identity of a person. If a person has to cover his face for a practical purpose, such as being sick or too cold, that is fine. But it is not fine to do so in public places for other reasons. Presenting one's identity in public places is essential for building trust that is badly needed to form a society.

That's no reason to ban it, some people don't want to socialise with others.

 

[Stuttgart001]

That's a ridiculous law, and it should be changed.

It would be difficult, but your government still decided to do it.

I do not think you are not qualified to define whether or not it is ridiculous, just as like as i am not qualified to define whether or not some laws of Islam is ridiculous.

I do not think any government in the world has the ability to make it. It is much more easier to forbid people to of to Mosques than searching for small objects from millions of people.

 

[Cherokee]

If it doesn't object to state security, then what's the point? That's oppression is it not?

No it's not oppression. Please stop throwing this term to everything you do not agree with.

 

[Hamza913]

That's a ridiculous law, and it should be changed.

It would be difficult, but your government still decided to do it.

I do not think you are not qualified to define whether or not it is ridiculous, just as like as i am not qualified to define whether or not some laws of Islam is ridiculous.

I do not think any government in the world has the ability to make it. It is much more easier to forbid people to of to Mosques than searching for small objects from millions of people.[/QUOTE]

The difference is if you ask me about certain laws within Islam, I can provide solid reasons as to why they exist.

You can't give me a solid reason as to why someone can't name their child Muhammad.

 

[313ghazi]

Are you really going to try and argue it has nothing to do with Islam? Really?

I'll cede to the point it may be non Islamic in origin, but it's Islamically approved of and rewarded. An honest look at Islamic sources will tell you this.



It's not necessarily essential, but it's considered praiseworthy to wear it.

And I am a Salafi, so obviously I'm talking from a Salafi viewpoint.

I learnt something new today. I always assumed the salafi's considered it mandatory. Idk why i have salafi friends who's wives/sisters wear hijab not niqab - but there you go, clearly i'd made an unreasonable assumption.

 

[Hamza913]

No it's not oppression. Please stop throwing this term to everything you do not agree with.

Yes it is. It's an unjustified, narrow minded view that you're exerting upon others because you don't like the way Burqas look.

No it's not oppression. Please stop throwing this term to everything you do not agree with.

Yes it is. It's an unjustified, narrow minded view that you're exerting upon others because you don't like the way Burqas look.

I learnt something new today. I always assumed the salafi's considered it mandatory. Idk why i have salafi friends who's wives/sisters wear hijab not niqab - but there you go, clearly i'd made an unreasonable assumption.

Most of us do.

I'm somewhat unsure, but I tend to lean more towards it being recommended.

 

[nang2]

Are you really going to try and argue it has nothing to do with Islam? Really?

I'll cede to the point it may be non Islamic in origin, but it's Islamically approved of and rewarded. An honest look at Islamic sources will tell you this.



It's not necessarily essential, but it's considered praiseworthy to wear it.

And I am a Salafi, so obviously I'm talking from a Salafi viewpoint.

It probably has nothing to do with Islam. I am sure human beings wore clothes long before the birth of Islam and I am also sure Islam approves wearing clothes and even rewards wearing clothes (maybe in a way to punish those who run around naked). I think it is unwise to glorify everything Prophet did. He also performed every basic human functionalities, too, such as bowel movement, and probably performed very well. But let's not venture into divinification of such basics.

That's no reason to ban it, some people don't want to socialise with others.

Then they can avoid public places. I am only OK with banning it in public places, not in private places.

 

[Stuttgart001]

I do not think you are not qualified to define whether or not it is ridiculous, just as like as i am not qualified to define whether or not some laws of Islam is ridiculous.

I do not think any government in the world has the ability to make it. It is much more easier to forbid people to of to Mosques than searching for small objects from millions of people.

The difference is if you ask me about certain laws within Islam, I can provide solid reasons as to why they exist.

You can't give me a solid reason as to why someone can't name their child Muhammad.

The reason is China government do not want its nationalist got religious influence from they born. Muhammad apparently has strong religious symbolic meaning.