Reliance on China to Hurt Pakistan in Future

[jalip]

its batter for pakistan to only think of pakistan nothing else if we need to be strong i am fearing we might again going to be used by other

 

[oct605032048]

u still hasnt gotten the point.Its not all about Defence. Is chinese goods flowing throughout pakistan good for Pakistan's homegrown industry? is it good for Pakistan's economy? Jobs? etc etc. A nation is not all about defence, is it?. Defence and millitary equipment are just one part of the puzzle.

When it comes to economy one thing is important: openness and free market.
the fall of the soviet russia and the development of asian tigers as well as china serve an example to illustrate my point above. by international trade can a small country like Skorea or singapore make use of resources and reap the macket all over the world. By setting high tax(especially for the 'capital goods' that are machines to pruduce cars, motorcycles, and even machines as well), local or internal industries are protected at the costs of local consumers .

economists have long been studying the differences between countries with different attitude towards trade. it is quite clear that developing economies with less trade with others often has low efficiency and latin america nations serve this point____argintina which had been one of the richest nations in 1910s, but suffered from low rate of growth and dropped as mid-income countries due to improper policies.

To our pakistani friends, your fear and worry about the failure of your local industries are understandable-------in the early years of reformation in china we shared the same emotion like you.
------but facts counts more than words, all the company servived in the competition proved that they are the most competitive ones in the world in the very field of industry. and today, the same story is in pakistan and i have to admit that your texttile industry is doing pretty well and one day they can win the heart adn wallets of chinese customers.

Besides, what india govn. did in the past few years are the samething happened in china 20 years before.

 

[iioal malik]

i don't know how can u come up with the thread like this.. but leave the poor kid alone guys he doesn't know wat he is talking about he is new here n i think he is trying to make friends by doing this but kid this is not the right way to make firends here..i hope your next thread will make some sense.pakistan n china is a ture friends not the friends that u have in your life kido

 

[Patriot]

It's called a deal. The US doesn't need our business as much as China did. China benefited a lot from the JF-17 deal, so they offered a lot in return (including ToT). Now, as an example, India is offering big business with the MMRCA contest winner, US$10-billion, and therefore, the US is willing to transfer certain amount of their technology to India (which is outdated according to their standards). That's because the US is looking our for itself. Guess what, China does the same.

The argument that the Americans are less reliable than the Chinese as a people is flawed. They are both equally reliable, given that we can provide an equally valuable return.

Now, from Pakistan's point of view, I agree, China is a more reliable partner. But that is only because Pakistan can offer China what they want in return. Without Pakistani business, China's defense industry may not have been able to get where it is today.

Like I said, we should not expect anyone to do us any favors. Cooperation is always good, but too much reliance is bad. This is pretty much common sense, I don't see why anyone would disagree.

This is absolute nonsense.US will not offers us TOT even if we give them 10 billion dollars for F16.Our bussines with China have been very little considering the economy of China.China has sold planes and other weapons to many other countries.We had very little to offer to Chinese in terms of money too (Bad Economy)..Do you think US Would have offered you 600 million soft loan for JF-17 if it was US-PAK Joint Project?While i do agree that we need self reliance but you need minimum base for that and we don't have that.PAC as well as POF was built with China help.No other country would have given us Nuclear Reactors (Even France backed off which is a very neutral country).China gave us 100 free F6 immediately after 1971 war when we were very bad economically.What we need to do is develop a good economy so that we don't have to ask for loans and other stuff from China which can give China a lot of leverage.China for Pakistan is what Soviet Union was for India.

 

[PAFAce]

1 I can't bear you any more, are you secret agent from India or the West? we should ask administrator to delete your post!!!
2 You want to foment our relationship with China!
3 Even muslim have many bad guys like you! Some muslim in China are used by US to attack China , everyone knows that except your fool~~~~

4 without China's valuable help,we can't make a plane even in 20 years, what about you? can you make a aircraft ? Now , we are few countries that can make the 3rd generation aircraft,what a big progress! the West especially US will never help us and alway make sanction on us!!!

Hahahahaha.
Hahahahaha.
I guess I've been compromised. Damn. I just hope the administrators don't find out!

This is absolute nonsense.US will not offers us TOT even if we give them 10 billion dollars for F16.Our bussines with China have been very little considering the economy of China.China has sold planes and other weapons to many other countries.We had very little to offer to Chinese in terms of money too (Bad Economy)..Do you think US Would have offered you 600 million soft loan for JF-17 if it was US-PAK Joint Project?While i do agree that we need self reliance but you need minimum base for that and we don't have that.PAC as well as POF was built with China help.No other country would have given us Nuclear Reactors (Even France backed off which is a very neutral country).China gave us 100 free F6 immediately after 1971 war when we were very bad economically.What we need to do is develop a good economy so that we don't have to ask for loans and other stuff from China which can give China a lot of leverage.China for Pakistan is what Soviet Union was for India.

When did I deny that China has been a great ally? Why is it that everything must be black-or-white, good-or-evil? Things are much more complicated in the real world. You think our Armed Forces blindly trust the Chinese? Talk to anyone higher up, and they'll tell you that any foreign relation is based on reciprocation. China has benefited from Pakistani alliance, strategically as well as economically. It is a ridiculous argument to make that they help us because they are naturally inclined to do so. I love the fact that we have a great nation like China on our side, but if your argument is that they're doing this out of "brotherly love", well then, I guess we live in different worlds altogether.

Similarly, as I said before, the US is also looking out for itself. By increasing defense relations with India, they too are set to gain both economically and strategically. Why is that so difficult to understand? The United States government has to look out for its defense contractors, and $10-billion dollars will keep a lot of their white and blue collar jobs going. In addition, good relations with one of the largest economies in the world, access to some of the cheapest white-collar labor in the world, influence in one of the most strategically important locations worldwide etc. these are all additional benefits for the US. That is why they are willing to transfer technology to India, which they don't consider cutting-edge anymore. You'd be surprised to find out that had India wanted to participate in the JSF program, they would have had that opportunity as well. And that's the last I will talk about the MMRCA on this thread.

Like I've said before, we set to gain a lot from Chinese cooperation, but total dependence on them is not a good idea. Our Armed Forces recognize that, I just hope that our private industry does as well. Other than that, you are entitled to your own fairy-tale opinions.

 

[Patriot]

No, they offered us all that stuff so that we can compete with India.I completely support more Defence Relations with Pakistan but only if we are buying stuff.The only way China can get leverage over us is if we start getting aid and loans from them the way we got loans from US of A.

 

[SBD-3]

well to talk about the self reliance.I endorse it should be the ultimate objective.But we must keep the fact in mind that Pak-Sino friendship is time proven just like US-Isreal partnership.Self reliance can not be achieved in 20 30 years look at china how long did it take decades and decades but still they are not fully independent. They relied on Russia and learned.I think Pakistan should do the same.We must confess that no one in the world has helped pakistan the way china did Yankees and Europeans are friends of coffers not the friends of Pakistan.I think Pakistan should strneghten its strategic Ties with china and get the most out of what is on offer from China.Just look at Al khalid/F-22p/Baktar shikan/ZDK 03/Thunder/FC-20 they are doing what a sincere friend can do for other friend (i dont know why we still run after US and Europe) and to talk about muslims tell me who should be our friend which treats muslim in a better way?
to talk about Pakistani industry its not the threat posed by China.Look there is a simple rule of economics and nature.If you can't compete, you should not do the business.Our enterprenures are to be blamed for not competing Chinese products.I still remember the words of production minister "when ever i meet them they only talk about subsidies" is that what you expect? they are more blackmailers than patriots.Will you like that some industrialist paid out of your pocket? this is whats happening in Pakistan.We are Feeding these "never filled babies".What you call "Influencive Beggers".Ok tell me what these people have not done history is full of scams where these people have let Pakistan in shames just for their personal interest.If China is producing somthing cheap,it is for the benifit of our consumer,If our industrialist have gutts he should fight his way out rather then make hues and cries like women (No offence intended)

 

[Prince_of_Mistery]

Rubish post haha

Thank you for your contribution

Anything else you would like to add while drawing attention to yourself.

 

[Prince_of_Mistery]

i don't know how can u come up with the thread like this.. but leave the poor kid alone guys he doesn't know wat he is talking about he is new here n i think he is trying to make friends by doing this but kid this is not the right way to make firends here..i hope your next thread will make some sense.pakistan n china is a ture friends not the friends that u have in your life kido

I am not here to make friends brother. I dont Know any of you from Adam.

Coming back to the Topic.

I am not saying that Pakistan should end its bilatteral Ties with China but start to reliase this is harsh world and nobody is your friend.

The Chinese have always backed away from their so called friends when they dearly needed them.

Take for example sacntions against IRAN and IRAQ.

Only reason China is supporting pakistan because it needs Pakistan to keep india quite.

I would personally like to see Pakistan a fully self sufficient country but i dont think this will be achieved in the near future due to a number of reasons.


Best Regards

MN

 

[SBD-3]

Thank you for your contribution

Anything else you would like to add while drawing attention to yourself.

i was expecting a better anwer

 

[SBD-3]

I am not here to make friends brother. I dont Know any of you from Adam.

Coming back to the Topic.

I am not saying that Pakistan should end its bilatteral Ties with China but start to reliase this is harsh world and nobody is your friend.

The Chinese have always backed away from their so called friends when they dearly needed them.

Take for example sacntions against IRAN and IRAQ.

Only reason China is supporting pakistan because it needs Pakistan to keep india quite.

I would personally like to see Pakistan a fully self sufficient country but i dont think this will be achieved in the near future due to a number of reasons.


Best Regards

MN

No one has ever denied the fact but to say that China has backed out may not be a proper word.Assuming your point, Still we should get what is on offer from China rather than go for "LCA" or "Arjun" kind of adventures why to waste resources if we have China offering ToT

 

[satishkumarcsc]

No one has ever denied the fact but to say that China has backed out may not be a proper word.Assuming your point, Still we should get what is on offer from China rather than go for "LCA" or "Arjun" kind of adventures why to waste resources if we have China offering ToT

To build yourself a Research and Design base. To give more jobs. And to make yourself and your countrypeople a sense of nationalism and a roadmap for self reliance. I think that is a great deal. It instigates pride in your identity.

 

[Munir]

I think he best option will be Pakistan working together with China, India and Iran. They got it all. Energy, resources, manpower and technology.

 

[SSGPA1]

They did that in the 71 war against india. They never came to pakistan help then.

I believe they are using Pakistan for there own gains.

Pakistan didn't accept the Chinese help in 1971! They offer was always there.

Everyone is after their own gains and so is Pakistan. BTW, Pakistan is not completely dependent on Chinese equipment as Paksitan has been procuring equipment from other countries as well.

 

[2008nnd]

i was so sad when i heared some pakistan friend said"China is not good with Muslims" , i dont know why some paksitan friends also so believe to what some western media's report like BBC,CNN. they just want to make mischief on the issue of chinese national relation. some western country try to support some of the chinese muslem splittist's riot .