Release of Taliban detainees: Pakistan took money, claims ex-Afghan spymast

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

You don't consider the ones i mentioned as 'your people'? Well I was trying to figure out what you meant by pashtun patriotism, didn't mean to offend you or anything.

They are my countrymen but you were asking me to throw some light on their traits and qualities in terms of ethnicity. As "i dont belong" to their ethnicities, so dont ask me questions like that about them, i can only speak on behalf of "my people" . And by "my people" i means pashtuns.
You are type of response is not the first one. It is called insecurity. Some where i said that pashtuns are very hospitable people, i was bombarded with responses "so you think rest of pakistani are less brave and hospitable than pashtuns", some said "we all pakistanis are brave and hospitable , we shouldnt think on ethnic lines".
Whenever we make the mistake of showing pride in pashtun related things or show pashtun behaviour infront of other pakistanis, lectures of islam and what not is given to us, we are asked to correct our thinking. If you people are not comfortable with our pashtun selves than whats the use of living togather , side by side, in the same country?. Bengalis were strong nation and despite being most active participants in pakistan movement, could not tolerate such non-sense.

 

[ShahidT]

They are my countrymen but you were asking me to throw some light on their traits and qualities in terms of ethnicity. As "i dont belong" to their ethnicities, so dont ask me questions like that about them, i can only speak on behalf of "my people" . And by "my people" i means pashtuns.
You are type of response is not the first one. It is called insecurity. Some where i said that pashtuns are very hospitable people, i was bombarded with responses "so you think rest of pakistani are less brave and hospitable than pashtuns", some said "we all pakistanis are brave and hospitable , we shouldnt think on ethnic lines".
Whenever we make the mistake of showing pride in pashtun related things or show pashtun behaviour infront of other pakistanis, lectures of islam and what not is given to us, we are asked to correct our thinking. If you people are not comfortable with our pashtun selves than whats the use of living togather , side by side, in the same country?. Bengalis were strong nation and despite being most active participants in pakistan movement, could not tolerate such non-sense.

What does bengalees has to do with this?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I go there regularly. You don't need to worry about my flight itineraries or my travel plans. Thanks for your concerns about me

By the way, if you got your head out of your *** then you would've seen my analysis of the situation in the other thread. It was a misunderstanding and nothing else; more proper means could've been used to win the affection of the girls family - rather than meet her privately (mutually agreed upon)

Stoning them is unacceptable and if I ever found out who partook in that jirga, I will thrash the living daylights out of them in public.

You will thrash the jirga members but no words of condemnation for that chachora soldier. He didnt contacted the parents of girl, maintained a secret relationship with her as his intents were not "shareefana". He purpose was enjoyment, you know very well that what two lovers do in secret meetings. And we pashtuns are known for ethics, strictness, ghairat and what not. Punjabis like him would brag that "aik pathani ko pata lia, aur wo bi FATA jaise dangerous ilaqay main"...that haraami soldier has stained honour of the girl's family for generations, her family is ruined and wont be able to show their faces to their kiliwal with pride...

 

[Sabawoon_Noorzai]

Non of that matters to Mr Zulfiqar. All it matter to him is being a servant of the Panjabi generals, maintain his status and money. "Mutually agreed upong" that shows that he would condone and be comfy with his sister and cousin dating some Panjabi guy?Lol What a guy from Parachinar. Boyakashaaaaa

Good that that Panjabay soldier was stoned to death.

 

[MadDog]

He's viciously hated by the Establishment, especially the Punjabis and a few Pashtuns on account of him being a Panjshiri and also because of his hate for the Taliban. The Establishment considers him the single greatest threat in the Afghan intelligentsia, and he has great support among Pashtuns who consider the Durand line "null and void" which is the greatest fear of the Pakistanis, even greater than the the threat of encirclement from India.

My friend you need to revise your facts about Pushtuns of Pakistan;

1) They are the second largest ethnic group...upto 28 million...more than twice the pushtuns in Afghanistan (which are 12 million approximately).

2) Huge component of the army and ISI is from Pushtun areas, hell even 2 out of 4 dictators were Pushtuns...Yahya and Ayub Khan.

3) In 1950s when Daud's forces attacked...Bajaur agency was defended by Pakistani Pushtun tribesmen against the attacking Afghan forces, these very Pushtun militiamen had liberated what is today's province of Gilgit Baltistan and region of Azad Kashmir..and they fought your regular Indian Army in 1948.

4) Pushtuns have been sidelined since 2001 in Afghan govt, this is what Musharaf had emphasized that u r pushing majority of Afghanistan towards the Taliban..the farsi speaking Pushtun elite and Panjshiris...might have the viewpoint u have but it is absolutely baseless.

5) Ask Mr Amirullah Saleh...if Pakistan stops the flow of military equipment, neccesities and flights over its territory to the coalition...Afghan govt won't survive one day.....lets see where will Mr Saleh run after 2014....Pakistanis arn't going anywhere....Indians have been sidelined..Americans are talking to the Taliban rebels...I understand why an Indian member is complaining...but please don't twist the facts.

6) The issue of Pushtunistan died in 1960's...in Ayub's time....it meant that a state of Pushtuns should be carved out of Pakistan and Afghanistan...thus this movement was also a threat to Afghanistan...why would some Pushtunistan supporter sympathize with a Panjshiri, like Mr Saleh, who is a hardcore nationalist of the state of Afghanistan ?

 

[Sabawoon_Noorzai]

I have to run but I will reply to your nonsense, MadDog.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Non of that matters to Mr Zulfiqar. All it matter to him is being a servant of the Panjabi generals, maintain his status and money. "Mutually agreed upong" that shows that he would condone and be comfy with his sister and cousin dating some Panjabi guy?Lol What a guy from Parachinar. Boyakashaaaaa

Good that that Panjabay soldier was stoned to death.

Mr.zulfiqar says that the young generation of his family and relatives can not speak a single word of pashto, they either speak english or urdu. They are settled in islamabad, lahore and other cities...it seems his culture has changed and he has become quite azad khayal...
Few years ago i went along with my father to meet a major in army , he was a khattak from karak. To our surprise his kids were speaking urdu instead of pashto even though his wife was also a pashto speaking khattak. He proudly said that they decided that their kids would speak urdu, pashto is a useless langauge. I was stunned but i remained silent as he was a senior person... I guess that khattak major should be awarded "tamgha e imtiaz" for such sacrifice, a sacrifice of disconnecting his future generation from beautiful langauge like pashto...

 

[Amaa'n]

No one is going to entertain your India nonsense in Afghanistan and you will be politely made to understand to mind your business. I have not lectured you about bribes and administrative corruption, since we are in position to do so which is a way of life in there.

It is natural for heads of national intelligence agencies to be changed etc. Saleh is doing good for himself, after all he is a populist politician and an opinion leader on our relations with Pakistan. The issue of his ethnicity is irrelevant and I as a Pashtun will be the first to\ well wish and lend him my support. You are resorting to mere drivel just like those Pakistani panelists shamed and debunked by Saleh.Lol

You my friend have some sesrious problem at hand, because when I checked Saleh was in favor of more aggressive approach towards Taliban, he was against Peace Talks , negotiations with Taliban, He wanted Americans to rain hell upon on Talibans and keep doing it and doing it untill Talibans are no more......And my friends American did it , they did it for 10 years, and where did that get them? in the hell hole under the debt.....so they told your Smashing Shaleh to cut the crap and showed him the middle finger....

Hogwash.

Even Newsweek ran a cover story on Northern Alliance and their not so impeccable human rights record.

As for NA - well that's the faction your country has been supporting. But I believe indias meddling will be on the wrong side of history. Your project designs there won't work. Keep trying, see how far it takes you

Karzai is in a very uncertain and precarious position it seems - especially with him biting the hands (I emphasize the plural) that fed and continue to feed him.

As for ANA yes I do underestimate them because its not an army it's a 300,000 strong militia which is often required to now disarm not just near American 2 and 3 stars but even trainers sometimes

Having been around afghan soldiers and observed them I can say that they have a ways to go. Many brave men, but also much risk for mutiny or insubordinate conduct (drug use is rampant too). Afghan economy can't even cover one quarter of their expense. But hey don't take my word for it! Find out yourself

Don't forget to add Green on Blue attacks on the rise in Afghanistan

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

My friend you need to revise your facts about Pushtuns of Pakistan;

1) They are the second largest ethnic group...upto 28 million...more than twice the pushtuns in Afghanistan (which are 12 million approximately).

2) Huge component of the army and ISI is from Pushtun areas, hell even 2 out of 4 dictators were Pushtuns...Yahya and Ayub Khan.

3) In 1950s when Daud's forces attacked...Bajaur agency was defended by Pakistani Pushtun tribesmen against the attacking Afghan forces, these very Pushtun militiamen had liberated what is today's province of Gilgit Baltistan and region of Azad Kashmir..and they fought your regular Indian Army in 1948.

4) Pushtuns have been sidelined since 2001 in Afghan govt, this is what Musharaf had emphasized that u r pushing majority of Afghanistan towards the Taliban..the farsi speaking Pushtun elite and Panjshiris...might have the viewpoint u have but it is absolutely baseless.

5) Ask Mr Amirullah Saleh...if Pakistan stops the flow of military equipment, neccesities and flights over its territory to the coalition...Afghan govt won't survive one day.....lets see where will Mr Saleh run after 2014....Pakistanis arn't going anywhere....Indians have been sidelined..Americans are talking to the Taliban rebels...I understand why an Indian member is complaining...but please don't twist the facts.

6) The issue of Pushtunistan died in 1960's...in Ayub's time....it meant that a state of Pushtuns should be carved out of Pakistan and Afghanistan...thus this movement was also a threat to Afghanistan...why would some Pushtunistan supporter sympathize with a Panjshiri, like Mr Saleh, who is a hardcore nationalist of the state of Afghanistan ?

Let me tell you first about pashtunistan. When we talk about pashtunistan issue that surfaced after 1947, it was not idea of the country to be carved out of both afghanistan and pakistan. It was suggested by khudai khidmatgars that in 1947 refrendum there should also be an option of N.W.F.P in the polls. Pashtunistan, like pakhtunkhwa, was name given to N.W.F.P, the name got controvertial due to pashtunistan and bacha khan and co had to discard it and they chose pakhtunkhwa name. There was no threat for afghanistan, they actively supported azad pakhtunistan. Infact pakhtunistan did came into being for few years in waziristan and its president was faqir of ipi. The present day pashtuns of souther districts supported him, it is interesting that today these pashtuns are very patriotic, pashtuns got modified in these 60 years.
2- I asked a bajauri about bajaur incident, he said that they just responded to univited infilteration of afghan lashkar, they would have responded in the same manner if any neighbouring pashtun tribes of pakistan had infilterated. According to him it was a tribal skirmish and had nothing to do with anti-afghan sentiments. He further explained that PAF and army took the matter to another level and bombarded afghans.
3- lar pashtuns are twice the number of bar pashtuns but you also have to keep in mind that in pakistan we are a minority and marginal community. Punjabis are four times our population and they along with mohajirs are show runners of pakistan, they are mainstream cultures. Also among these 28 million pashtuns we have pathans like hyperion, abu zulfiqar etc, so not all pakistani pashtuns are quality , many of them are going to be watered down to become like irfan pathans in next few generations.

 

[haviZsultan]

Pakistan should not have released them-if they were to be released why did we (Pakistanis) torture them (terrorists) in jails for so long.

We are acting like we have no head. Either we should just have shot these terrorists and be done with it or we should have locked them in jails. By releasing them we are ensuring that we are releasing hostile elements in the public who may attack Pakistan and our interests in the future.

We must ensure that those released will not have any hostile intent towards Pakistan. Also army and police use various torture methods to extract information. Using these means to extract confessions turns them hostile... now they have been released.

I do not think releasing Afghan Taliban commanders or for that matter any terrorist commanders is correct policy.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You will thrash the jirga members but no words of condemnation for that chachora soldier. He didnt contacted the parents of girl, maintained a secret relationship with her as his intents were not "shareefana". He purpose was enjoyment, you know very well that what two lovers do in secret meetings. And we pashtuns are known for ethics, strictness, ghairat and what not. Punjabis like him would brag that "aik pathani ko pata lia, aur wo bi FATA jaise dangerous ilaqay main"...that haraami soldier has stained honour of the girl's family for generations, her family is ruined and wont be able to show their faces to their kiliwal with pride...

It was a misunderstanding due to lack of knowledge of local norms

Review my post again in which I clearly said it would have been advisable for him to have communicated with the family elders


Maybe you should get yourself stoned to see how you will like it.. I hope you do

Non of that matters to Mr Zulfiqar. All it matter to him is being a servant of the Panjabi generals, maintain his status and money. "Mutually agreed upong" that shows that he would condone and be comfy with his sister and cousin dating some Panjabi guy?Lol What a guy from Parachinar. Boyakashaaaaa

Good that that Panjabay soldier was stoned to death.

A great illustration of why treacherous afghan chutiyas like this need to be removed from the country immediately on a priority basis

 

[rubyjackass]

Nothing is strange this guy amrullah is a well known Baboon in Afghanistan. No body respects him nor takes him seriously.

Just watch his interview in BBC's program Hard Talk in utube.

you will know the rest.



Lo g aik or Baboon punch gya.

Thanks for mentioning the interview. I watched it and he was amazing. He not only held out against the onslaught on the anchor, but also drove home his points with vigor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-1KmzMfYbQ

 

[rubyjackass]

It's very unfortunate that Mr. Saleh, like many Afghan public personalities are persuaded that when it comes to Pakistan Afghanistan relations, they seem to think the more provocative their public utterances the better, almost as if they have come to understand that consequences do not apply to those relations or their persons - they should reconsider.

I think they have to be provocative. Otherwise the West, in its eagerness to leave Afghanistan, is picturing as if Taliban can be given a stake in Afghan government, then everything is alright(at least for themselves). After all they don't care if Afghan children are allowed to study or women allowed to have rights.
Their country is waiting for a Taliban push-back from Pakistan once NATO leaves. They have to be desperate to make more people understand the consequences of it.

 

[Amaa'n]

I think they have to be provocative. Otherwise the West, in its eagerness to leave Afghanistan, is picturing as if Taliban can be given a stake in Afghan government, then everything is alright(at least for themselves). After all they don't care if Afghan children are allowed to study or women allowed to have rights.
Their country is waiting for a Taliban push-back from Pakistan once NATO leaves. They have to be desperate to make more people understand the consequences of it.

And they don't exist in Afghanistan? please do your research and then talk

 

[TaimiKhan]

Afghanistan claim on Pakistani land upto attock is genuine and has historical, linguistic, religous, cultural and racial reasons for it. It makes more sense than Pakistan's claim on kashmir just on religous basis. You and me can refuse to accept their claim but it shouldnt be the criterea to prove our loyalty to pakistan and punjabis.. Patriotism is a natural sentiment and loyalty is part of pashtun nature but you dont have to be more loyal than king himself. You want integrity of pakistan, its perfectly understandable, but leave these matters to punjabis. They would make it sure that pashtuns are always divided and quarrelling with each other.
I respect patriotism of every pakistani pashtun as long as he is not involved in messing up with Afghanistan and their people. Even islam doesnt allow us to do so.

If that is your criteria, then Persians have a historic right to the Persian empire, Romans have a historic right to their empire and so on. Something which was in the past and is not now, that doesn't gives them the right. As i said, if we go by history, then lot of people/nations/tribes have the right on a lot of stuff which is not theirs in the present.

And Pustuns have not been divided by Punjabis as told to you by someone, its the doing of our own Pathans that we are divided or fightining each other. The shias and sunnis in Kurram agency are fighting not due to punjabis, rather their own doing, the mehsud's and wazir's rivalry going back hundreds of years is not due to Punjabis, rather their own doing and so on. i can quote many instances where no one from outside had to do anything with the infighting among Pathans.

And its not us Pakistanis which started to finger Afghanis, but it were the Afghanis which started to finger us right from the start of this new nation. The voted against our entry into UN, they used their soil against Pakistan first. We helped them by giving refuge to millions of Afghanis who are living and eating in this country and have brought havoc to our society.

Statements like that of the current Afghan army chief give us the perfect reason to mess in Afghan affairs as their intentions regarding us are not pure, its their evilness that is making us become the bad guys. That start not to interfere with Pakistan, we may think about letting them live in peace.

And if you haven't heard, a pathans loyalty is with money only, he will do anything for money and will be loyal to anyone who shows him the money.