Release of Taliban detainees: Pakistan took money, claims ex-Afghan spymast

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I never said you did not do the work, shoddy at times, but that may have been the disagreement on price.

As I said, its about the price.

curiously -- the "bribe" to find actionable evidence against H. Saeed (which some mistake as a bounty) is $10m which is more than the bounty price on certain AQ affiliates post-911 and yet he's out in the open talking to media, attending political rallies and meeting journalists

you should also be informed that when some top AQ men were captured (such as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or Ramzi Binalshibh) commandos and police faced stiff resistance and in some cases uniformed policemen lost their lives in armed encounters. Some of the moneys went to re compensating the families who lost breadwinners.

But of course expect a ****** to overlook these details

Though i am not a wali or saint, but do you want to say that all prophets, sahaba, awlia were robots? (nauzu billah).
You want me to get into the privates of nurses, my patients and their attendants?..how old are you abu zolfiqar? I thought you were a grown uncle , not a horny teenager....you think we are living in some madar pidar azaad society. West has corrupted your brain, come to your sense, be a pashtun, be a pakistani....fear allah before having dirty intentions for the girl you date.

Ok Doctor Sangeen.

Now you want to be my behavioural psychologist and a preacher to me










How much do you charge per session?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

With such degrading comments against pashtun women, you are also insulting @Hyperion , @Abu Zolfiqar. Islam says that woman should stay at home and do purdah when she go outside, we pashtuns are simply following islam...
And unlike you people, we have strong culture, family system, values and traditions, with practical adherence to islam.... shareef-ul-nasal women do hijab...elders and women are given utmost respect in the society...

according to you, following Islam means imprisoning the women

you'll have a hard time getting sympathy from me on this one; i hate the backwards tribal mentality in certain areas where they consider women getting an education as bad as a woman giving up her honour and dignity and all that other bullshit

thank God that younger generations are more aware; until public services and law & order improve their, i hope the government brings students (especially girls) to the main cities like Peshawar and Islamabad for them to become educated and become an asset to society.

neither Islam nor this Pashtun culture youre talking about says that women's only role is to cook food and be a babies factory. . .

On this soldier issue i can see the wide cultural gap between pashtuns/afghans and desi/indics (punjabi, mohajir, sindhi, kashmiri)...river indus was supposed to be a natural boundry.

he was from Mianwali. It isn't like one is human and the other is from mars.

she's closer to him than she is to some Dari/'Farsiwan' from your dear beloved Afghanistan











p.s. the women of Kurram do go to school and their schools dont get blown up. Purdah is pretty strictly observed, but literacy is best in Kurram Agency among all the Agencys and the schools are reasonably good thanks to local donations. Almost all the elders will tell you that they want all boys and girls to be educated so that they can live better and more comfortable lives than they did.

is there a problem with that too?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

according to you, following Islam means imprisoning the women

you'll have a hard time getting sympathy from me on this one; i hate the backwards tribal mentality in certain areas where they consider women getting an education as bad as a woman giving up her honour and dignity and all that other bullshit

thank God that younger generations are more aware; until public services and law & order improve their, i hope the government brings students (especially girls) to the main cities like Peshawar and Islamabad for them to become educated and become an asset to society.

neither Islam nor this Pashtun culture youre talking about says that women's only role is to cook food and be a babies factory. . .



he was from Mianwali. It isn't like one is human and the other is from mars.

she's closer to him than she is to some Dari/'Farsiwan' from your dear beloved Afghanistan











p.s. the women of Kurram do go to school and their schools dont get blown up. Purdah is pretty strictly observed, but literacy is best in Kurram Agency among all the Agencys and the schools are reasonably good thanks to local donations. Almost all the elders will tell you that they want all boys and girls to be educated so that they can live better and more comfortable lives than they did.

is there a problem with that too?

I didnt say a girl shouldnt get education. You always jumps to your own conclusions. Islams says it is duty of both male and female muslim to get education. Like i said she should be in hijab while outside, while going to school, college etc. Her basic role in islam is do take care of home and raise childerns. Islam allows her to do only those jobs where she doesnt mixes with namaharram, and that with permission of her husband or parents...you can label it tribal mentality but then you are not muslim.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well in the context of FATA (even Kurram) all the women observe Purdah. In fact in many Agencies there is a total visual "blackout" -- you only will see either really young girls or really old women. All the girls between teenage years up to 20s and 30s are inside most of the time and when they do go outside they are covered from head to toe.

there was no debate about Purdah; the debate was originally over a misunderstanding


but we're debating these things in the completely wrong thread....so i'm leaving this discussion here. That's it from me.

 

[Secur]

we pashtuns are simply following islam...

I told you to avoid bringing something you yourself go against when making posts of racist nature and of significance and dominance of blood - strongly detested by the Prophet ... Second of all , I know how much education tribal women receive ( if there's any institution left ) besides some areas ... Third and most important , you didn't even comprehend the post , next time try it slowly

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I told you to avoid bringing something you yourself go against when making posts of racist nature and of significance and dominance of blood - strongly detested by the Prophet ... Second of all , I know how much education tribal women receive ( if there's any institution left ) besides some areas ... Third and most important , you didn't even comprehend the post , next time try it slowly

Islam doesnt doesnt discourages nationalism, it is against racism and colourism. Islam is not against pride, it is against arrogance. If pashtunism is wrong according to you than so should be pakistanism, watan-parasti.
It was the wisdom of Allah (awj) to create people in nations and tribes. The wisdom is that they know each other and explore their particular cultures and backgrounds. Quran says We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes
that ye may know one another"....Allah has created me as a pashtun with particular culture, you shouldnt have problem with Allah's distribution of human population into tribes and nations.
Humans are weak, they can lie, can be arrogant, selfish, make small mistakes, but the thing is how much you follow basics of islam and dont go against sharia. Islam values sacredness of family, and punishes strictly any one who disrupt this basic unit of society. Therefore zinna doesnt go unpunished....
We pashtuns are not perfect muslims but we are not worse. Tell me do you pray 5 times islam? Go to mosque for it? Do you do tilawat? ...why you are so allergic to islam and want madar pidar azaad society?

 

[474474]

With such degrading comments against pashtun women, you are also insulting @Hyperion , @Abu Zolfiqar. Islam says that woman should stay at home and do purdah when she go outside, we pashtuns are simply following islam...
And unlike you people, we have strong culture, family system, values and traditions, with practical adherence to islam.... shareef-ul-nasal women do hijab...elders and women are given utmost respect in the society....
On this soldier issue i can see the wide cultural gap between pashtuns/afghans and desi/indics (punjabi, mohajir, sindhi, kashmiri)...river indus was supposed to be a natural boundry.

You do realise punjabis and sindhis are found on the other side of the indus too right? Boundries are only in your heart, you dont accept pakistan that's your problem. Why dont you start a campaign to make your village a separate country? Of course i doubt youll have any support so just buzz of to afghanistan

 

[haviZsultan]

I was thinking of ranting against the Taliban yet again but what use is it when these barbarians have crossed all limits and understand no other language than that of the gun. We need to treat the Afghan Taliban too as a major threat rather than just treating the TTP as a threat.

The Taliban whichever one they are will not forgive a Pakistan that has bombed them and given a route to the Americans to get them. We need to look forward and understand for gods sake where we are headed. Do we really want a Pakistan run by the mullahs of the TTP?

 

[Cheetah786]

Pakistanis are well known for this they never do anything for free and money is everything for them at least I am proud that we can now even feed some top brass Pakistani establishment for the release of Taliban

Big words from a Guy whose country supply 98% of heroin to the world plus what are you bragging about 100% of your Government budget is covered by west.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

You do realise punjabis and sindhis are found on the other side of the indus too right? Boundries are only in your heart, you dont accept pakistan that's your problem. Why dont you start a campaign to make your village a separate country? Of course i doubt youll have any support so just buzz of to afghanistan

Then try to respect the pashtun culture and appreciate its distinguished aspects.. If you dont, then remember that we are not some kind of slaves, we are sons of mir wais neku, ahmad shah baba and khushal khan khattak, for sake of dignity we would simply choose our own path...it seems even simple co-existance is difficult in pakistan, bengalis got humiliate despite being majority, your urdu speaking community, is not ready to co-exist with pashtuns in karachi. Sindhis saw their historical lands undergoing rural and urban division and so on...
Pashtun nationalism is not racism, it is a natural sentiment, pashtuns are proud people. Racism is making fun of pashtun's urdu accent, making fun of his shawlar kameez , calling him dehati , even though shalwar kameez is national dress of pakistan..racism is pointing out the pashtun by his accent, complexation, eyes and hair colour...and make a bori bund laash out of him...racism is burning the bus because the driver was pashtun...racism is viewing pashtuns as community who can only do jobs of driver, watchman, labourer, hotel-wala....racism is thinking of pashtuns as low IQ people, calling them akhroat, making jokes about it....racism is pathan jokes and not considering it wrong...racism is viewing every pashtun as potential taliban and terrorist and humiliate him in that regard...racism is calling him "khan sahab" without any hint of respect....

 

[474474]

Then try to respect the pashtun culture and appreciate its distinguished aspects.. If you dont, then remember that we are not some kind of slaves, we are sons of mir wais neku, ahmad shah baba and khushal khan khattak, for sake of dignity we would simply choose our own path...it seems even simple co-existance is difficult in pakistan, bengalis got humiliate despite being majority, your urdu speaking community, is not ready to co-exist with pashtuns in karachi. Sindhis saw their historical lands undergoing rural and urban division and so on...
Pashtun nationalism is not racism, it is a natural sentiment, pashtuns are proud people. Racism is making fun of pashtun's urdu accent, making fun of his shawlar kameez , calling him dehati , even though shalwar kameez is national dress of pakistan..racism is pointing out the pashtun by his accent, complexation, eyes and hair colour...and make a bori bund laash out of him...racism is burning the bus because the driver was pashtun...racism is viewing pashtuns as community who can only do jobs of driver, watchman, labourer, hotel-wala....racism is thinking of pashtuns as low IQ people, calling them akhroat, making jokes about it....racism is pathan jokes and not considering it wrong...racism is viewing every pashtun as potential taliban and terrorist and humiliate him in that regard...racism is calling him "khan sahab" without any hint of respect....

Riiiight, the awkward moment, I've never seen any normal pushtun say that? Why is it that only you feel victimized, while every other pushtun here gets along just fine?
"my urdu speaking community" coexisted just fine until ANP and the refugees came along. I respect every culture of Pakistan, and insulting any single culture I will defend it like my own. But atleast 2 or 3 pushtuns disagree with you on what constitutes pushtun culture? I mean you're all alone there's no "we" and "our". To me indivisual cultures dont matter, my dada can trace his ancsestory to some afhgan village while my nana is from some bombay or something, but I'm proud of my past but accept it as that, "the past", and now I am Pakistani, no strings attached.

 

[Secur]

Islam doesnt doesnt discourages nationalism, it is against racism and colourism. Islam is not against pride, it is against arrogance. If pashtunism is wrong according to you than so should be pakistanism, watan-parasti.
It was the wisdom of Allah (awj) to create people in nations and tribes. The wisdom is that they know each other and explore their particular cultures and backgrounds. Quran says We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes
that ye may know one another"....Allah has created me as a pashtun with particular culture, you shouldnt have problem with Allah's distribution of human population into tribes and nations.
Humans are weak, they can lie, can be arrogant, selfish, make small mistakes, but the thing is how much you follow basics of islam and dont go against sharia. Islam values sacredness of family, and punishes strictly any one who disrupt this basic unit of society. Therefore zinna doesnt go unpunished....
We pashtuns are not perfect muslims but we are not worse. Tell me do you pray 5 times islam? Go to mosque for it? Do you do tilawat? ...why you are so allergic to islam and want madar pidar azaad society?

And this full fledge Islamic lecture is coming from whom ? The person who harbors hate against every race and openly expresses it with pride ? The one who spits venom against every ethnicity in every single post of his ? The one who cant reply a single post without attacking a person's origins and cant see anything rather than with the lens of racism ? The one who talks about inter marriages with detest and specially talks of polluting the Pashtun blood ? The one who still follows the old tribal mentality of blood significance and dominance thinking that race means everything ? The one who says that patriotism comes from marrying with Punjabis ? How you have got a problem with every single person and cant address without mentioning Urdu speaker , Hindkowan , Farsiwan or Punjabi ? How often do you make post like these ? Nearly every single ! Ask me and I will quote the posts made by you ... Then how can you , hypocrite , dare lecture anyone on Islam That is why I asked you not to go this religious route since you yourself dont follow it ... A classic example of pot calling the kettle black and this time whilst playing dumb and playing the " Islam " card trying to prove that you are the only Muslim out there and no other person knows nothing about the religion , normally usually done when one has made a mockery of himself by previous actions , cant reply and needs to distract attention from what he does ... Maybe it works for others for you in a debate , but not with me ...

@Hyperion @Abu Zolfiqar @haviZsultan @SHAMK9 @Armstrong Have you ever seen me make any racist post or a post against Pashtuns ? Enlighten this nutjob for me ...

Stop this " we " Pashtun thing , you aren't appointed as the leader of all Pashtuns and neither anyone agrees with you on this matter whether it be the tribal law or the case ... I have seen the severe disagreement with you by every single members except Afghans on your racism ...

Whatever I do , whether I got to mosque or not , whether I pray 5 times or not is not for you , this is a matter between me and my God , no one's belief can be judged in this world so stop this " religious than thou " attitude ... This isn't allergy to Islam , I just didn't want a bigoted racist like you to tell us about Quranic verses because it doesn't look good coming from a hypocrite ...

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

And this full fledge Islamic lecture is coming from whom ? The person who harbors hate against every race and openly expresses it with pride ? The one who spits venom against every ethnicity in every single post of his ? The one who cant reply a single post without attacking a person's origins and cant see anything rather than with the lens of racism ? The one who talks about inter marriages with detest and specially talks of polluting the Pashtun blood ? The one who still follows the old tribal mentality of blood significance and dominance thinking that race means everything ? The one who says that patriotism comes from marrying with Punjabis ? How you have got a problem with every single person and cant address without mentioning Urdu speaker , Hindkowan , Farsiwan or Punjabi ? How often do you make post like these ? Nearly every single ! Ask me and I will quote the posts made by you ... Then how can you , hypocrite , dare lecture anyone on Islam That is why I asked you not to go this religious route since you yourself dont follow it ... A classic example of pot calling the kettle black and this time whilst playing dumb and playing the " Islam " card trying to prove that you are the only Muslim out there and no other person knows nothing about the religion , normally usually done when one has made a mockery of himself by previous actions , cant reply and needs to distract attention from what he does ... Maybe it works for others for you in a debate , but not with me ...

@Hyperion @Abu Zolfiqar @haviZsultan @SHAMK9 @Armstrong Have you ever seen me make any racist post or a post against Pashtuns ? Enlighten this nutjob for me ...

Stop this " we " Pashtun thing , you aren't appointed as the leader of all Pashtuns and neither anyone agrees with you on this matter whether it be the tribal law or the case ... I have seen the severe disagreement with you by every single members except Afghans on your racism ...

Whatever I do , whether I got to mosque or not , whether I pray 5 times or not is not for you , this is a matter between me and my God , no one's belief can be judged in this world so stop this " religious than thou " attitude ... This isn't allergy to Islam , I just didn't want a bigoted racist like you to tell us about Quranic verses because it doesn't look good coming from a hypocrite ...

Absolute lies and nonsense...to prove me racist, you have to bring out those posts where i have said any thing racist...
For you people racism and pashtun nationalism is one and same thing so its useless to convince you that i am not a racist.
We pashtuns are proud people , we love our langauge and culture, we have strong traditions and moral values. Hospitality of pashtuns is extended to all non-pashtuns.....but it irritates people like that pashtun is not discarding his identity and langauge for urdu....every traditional pashtun is eye sore for you....

 

[Secur]

Absolute lies and nonsense...to prove me racist, you have to bring out those posts where i have said any thing racist...

Is there post which you make without doing a hate speech against Punjabis and Urdu speakers , liar ? Let me quote you a couple of your finest masterpieces ... There are dozens of Pashtuns out there ( a couple of them good friends of mine from Naswar Corner ) but only you need to bring race and your hate against every ethnicity into everything and playing the victim drama ... Nationalism isn't wrong , just when it gets priority over the country that we live in , it becomes wrong ...

 

[rubyjackass]

Taliban push back once NATO leaves? No, it's not Mujadideen against the Soviets - it has a different dynamic

I agree that the dynamic is different now. As I understand it, here is the script of Pakistani military. US leaves Aghanistan -> Pak army starts operation in FATA and Quetta -> Deal with the crazies to leave Pak for Afghan territory or kill them. -> Empty the craziness to Afghanistan

This part is clear.
There are more possibilities depending on how much risk Pak's army is going to take. One such scenario:
The ones who got a deal from Pak get facilitated to Afghan govt -> They show gratitude to Pak for the deal

If you disagree, then what do you think is the reason for not starting operation in NW?