Reforms in voting system-suggestions

[Hyde]

But why do none of the torn papers show any of that record?

Because whatever torn papers I saw on TV were the ballot papers and not counterparts attached to the book provided by ECP.

Bhai jan, people took away whole books, the corrupt presiding officers did not make a counter stamp...look at Ibrar Ul Haw yesterday, he had a whole book of fake votes, no counter no nothing. According to him, they have sent bundles from 50 stations to ECP while they have retained a couple as proof.

Sir I am not sure about the ballot boxes & Abrar ul Haq. They could be fake but only Election commission is going to verify it in near future

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Because whatever torn papers I saw on TV were the ballot papers and not counterparts attached to the book provided by ECP...........

So this is what I do not understand.

Say 1,000 ballots were given to a polling station, and 700 voters showed up who were issued the papers. So the polling agents would have 300 papers left over, which they have to return. Now if they wanted to steal the election, they take out 500 of the votes cast and replace them with prepared ballots.

But where did they get the ballots to replace the original votes? Somebody must have the ability to either provide them with more than the 1,000 ballots allocated to them, or to make perfect copies, which cannot be possible without knowing what the originals look like well before the elections.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Another thing I do not understand:

So I am now coming to think about this noise about rigging is not about just small incidents..



i.e. More votes were casted than the registered voters.. How can this be? The presiding officers should atleast learn basics of good rigging.

BBC Urdu quotes a non-governmental org.

If a polling station was issued enough ballots for the voters on its rolls, and there is a record, then where did these "extra" ballots come from? Are these genuine ballots that were oversupplied by the authorities themselves for some reason or are these fake ballots? If these are fake, how did they know how to print them out beforehand as exact copies?

 

[Jango]

Another thing I do not understand:



If a polling station was issued enough ballots for the voters on its rolls, and there is a record, then where did these "extra" ballots come from? Are these genuine ballots that were oversupplied by the authorities themselves for some reason or are these fake ballots? If these are fake, how did they know how to print them out beforehand as exact copies?

Did you see Hamid Mirs capital talk today? If not watch it on the net and look especially at the part where the FAFEN rep explains the situation, that will truly show you the stone age system that is implemented in our country.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Did you see Hamid Mirs capital talk today? If not watch it on the net and look especially at the part where the FAFEN rep explains the situation, that will truly show you the stone age system that is implemented in our country.

Stone age systems also yield stone age results, so why are we upset? We have to correct our system first.

 

[monitor12345]

Given the recent elections, and claims of rigging in several constituencies, there come to my mind several questions about the ballot papers themselves.

1. All the ballot papers seem to be printed on ordinary paper with no serial numbers or any other information that can be used to trace a particular ballot paper. Why is that?

2. Given the above, how do we know just how many ballot papers were printed and distributed for each seat?

3. Were there any safeguards to prevent extra ballot papers being printed and prepared beforehand?

4. Is there a way to audit the production, distribution and security of the ballot papers throughout the process?

This information should be made public for all parties to examine and follow up.



@Awesome @nuclearpak @Aeronaut @Elmo @TaimiKhan @Oscar

Any thoughts on this please?

@ Point 1: If there are no serial numbers on ballot papers & they can't be traced in future ( for e.g. like for recounting, satisfying the losing candidates etc, ) , then rigging is very easy.
@ Point 4: There will definitely be a way to audit the production, distribution and security of ballot papers. If it is not in Pakistan, You can learn from other Democratic countries.

The Election Process should be made rigging-proof & transparent first, alteast before the next elections.

EVM are the way to go? yes with all the above rigging is easy, which is why perhaps change is required in election methods. Maybe in the next election we will see these machines.

Electronic Voting Machines ( EVMs ) also , can be misused & tampered with.

 

[monitor12345]

EVM are the way to go? yes with all the above rigging is easy, which is why perhaps change is required in election methods. Maybe in the next election we will see these machines.

Electronic Voting Machines ( EVMs ) also , can be misused & tampered with.

 

[livingdead]

Some of the factors to keep in mind are
1. cost
2. ease of use
3. security

One cannot bring system which is prohibitively expensive because its going to be used only once or twice in 5 years. Setting up booths in all corners of country with gizmos for just one day is expensive

Secondly for a country with lot of simple folks, the system should be relatively simple. I have seen elderly folks withdrawing cash from ATM, it can take ages.

The systems should not be networked for simple reason that you can never avoid disruption/sabotage/hacking. Also one should not be able to easily track who voted for whom.

 

[monitor12345]

What do you think yaar. it wont be done or started now. What i am afraid of with all the clean elections talk we will see the same method next time.

Any government in Pakistan is not so good to start something , which is beneficial for common citizens , like transparent election process, on its own. It will act only if pressure is exerted upon the government.

 

[monitor12345]

Rigging has happened definitely , that too , not on small scale, in these elections.

You should first prevent corrupt Returning Officers. If they are honest, then Rigging is very difficult.

Since , Democracy is in early stages in Pakistan, the situation will improve with the passage of time.

Step-by-Step improvement can be brought in the Election Process.

 

[BATMAN]

Ye nizam kabhi is mulk ko tabdili nahi day sakta.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=389495824498767

 

[batmannow]

Did you see Hamid Mirs capital talk today? If not watch it on the net and look especially at the part where the FAFEN rep explains the situation, that will truly show you the stone age system that is implemented in our country.

Sorry bt This System Still Better Thn That System Which Made Pakistan?
Its The Peoples Minds, They Are Dirty Cant Clean Them Anyway? Today They Took Voting Papers, 2marow They Will Runaway With Computers, What Thn?
Any System In The World Works With Peoples, If The Peoples Are Stupid What A System Can Do?
For The Peoples of Pakistan, Only The Danda Is The Best Ever Solution!
2008 Elections Were the Cleanst One Considering This One, Why Nt Thn Was Mass Rigging ?like This?
Just Wondering?

 

[Kompromat]

1: Above card has a chip and recorded data on voting rights,constituency information and so on etc. [Already exists]

2: New system should have an insert/IR scanner to acquire voter information. [Dirt cheap]

3: Once the voter info is acquired by an operator, the voter should give his/her palm and Retina scan to establish positive ID.

4: Voter's ID card should be enabled for 400 seconds only to cast vote after a positive ID match.

5: Voter should be returned the activated ID and directed to a voice enabled screen,where the candidates options are displayed.

6: Displayed options have to be very simple,with candidate's photo,name,party and symbol.

7: Once the voter selects the candidate, a confirmation message is displayed [time delayed] if confirmation is received,voter gets a printed receipt of their vote with info about time,halka,serial number,date,CNIC number and the candidate, with a barcode printed under for re-scan and for any complaints. The machine prints a receipt of its own and keeps it in a locker,only to be opened once a day by the chief polling agent and the appointed Army officer upon presenting their IDs within 60 seconds and a password.

8: So the vote is casted and the voter gets the blue ink and leaves,through a different door.

9: Every machine should only have data of the registered voters of that constituency and upon casting a ballot the voter's name must be permanently written off the system databse,restricting the voters ability to vote again for a set period of time.

10: Voting machine must NOT be linked to ANY network for preventing hacking, it must have 3 hard drives to store multiple data layers of the voting information. 1 hard drive must be internal and cannot be removed, 2 should be removeable only after the ID card of the chief polling agent is presented with no more than 1 removal per 24 hours allowed, if more are attempted the EVM will alert the QRF of the Army,using a distress signal,and a loud alarm. [No rocket science]

11: 1 Hard drive at the end of the polling day will be removed by the Chief polling agent and the Army incharge and connected to a computer which is linked to the election database through a highly secure unshared Wide Area Network. The results are transmitted to the main election databse to be announced and the hard drive is removed and sealed,only to be opened by ECP later. [No rocket science technology required]

12: All receipts are retrieved and carefully packed and sealed, only to be opened by ECP later.

13: All polling stations must have multiple electricity sources ie backup generators.

14: Machine must have a camera and everyone's image must be stored in the internal hard drive. Multiple attempts to alter the EVM should result in distress signals sent to the authorities. Number of distress signals should be ranked nationally and that should determine any re-counts of the ballot.

15: Anyone found to be meddeling with the EVM should face high treason charges and life imprisonment.



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90% of the technology already exists, it will become cheaper when mass produced only thing missing is the political will on behalf of those who win by rigging.

Possibility of such a system being introduced. 1%

Best Regards.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Its high time ECP switch to electronic technology. that would not only save millions in paper printing but also help in overcoming bogus voting. Insert your machine readable CNIC card in the slot (like ATM), touch the picture/symbol of your candidate and voila here you go. To add security against misuse /snatching of other's CNIC, there should be a pin code to validate that the actual owner is using his own ID card. It will save money and time and the results can be announced much quicker and accurately besides overcoming fraud. As a third security machines should be in open under the watch of 4 police/rangers personnel where all people can easily see them rather than putting them in closed rooms to remove any chance of pressure on voters.

 

[Bang Galore]

Agreed can't be done on mass scale but the equipment it self should be of top quality and closed architecture...reminds me of Apple Inc. I remember the man in india who showed how to wipe memory and stuff was arrested.

It doesn't work that way. It is like talking about whether all the paper ballots can be replaced. India's EVM success works on the principle of no access to the machine itself. Once the election is over, the machines are stored in locked rooms, both machine & room being completely sealed with no access. Security forces guard the room & I suppose interested political parties can watch the room around the clock from outside. Tampering works only when access is available. Common sense is necessary, no one has unlimited budgets.

The man in India was arrested for tampering with an EVM which belongs to the election commission. That remains punishable under law.

I believe the Pakistani Election Commission wanted to introduce EVM's in this election itself. I watched a television program where S.Y.Quraishi, the former Chief election commissioner of India who advised the Pakistan Election Commission said the reason for not introducing in these elections was because of a lack of consensus about it among the political parties of Pakistan. I believe that the next elections might see the same procedure being followed in Pakistan that is now followed in India.