Reformed Taliban: Possible?

[nalandapride]

Taliban type State is not possible because nobody in the region:- Iran, Russia, Central Asian Republics and China want Afghanistan based on extremism and won't let that happen because Iranians fears about genocide of Hazaras and Chinese are fearful of Taliban extremism spillover in Xinjiang. Whole world is against Taliban. Its not 90s after all, things have changed so much, world can't ignore Afghanistan as it happened just after Soviet-Afghan war. I saw many Pakistanis expecting Russians to close supply routes to US but they didn't close that even with serious dispute over Missile Shield crisis. Taliban has become world headache and people never ignore their headache.

 

[Developereo]

Afghanistaan needs to accept this, accept that..but Pakistan has a "legitimate" interest in maitaining its contacts with nutters in Afghanistan and continue its strategic depth policy.

The sense of entitlement of some Pakistanis is amazing.

The deliberate ignorance by Indians is even more amazing. Pakistan's support for Taliban didn't happen in a vacuum. The Taliban/NA war was a proxy war by Pakistan/India/Iran. So don't blame Pakistan just because our proxy won and yours lost. Nobody's hands are clean in this.

Assume they reform - again the question is who reforms them in the first place? Who guarantee's that the reformation sticks...Pakistan? how sure r u that it will not utilize this reformation process for its own motives rather than Afgs?

This is a valid question, you wouldn't trust India or the US with the reforming of the Taliban..so naturally will the others. Also have they expressed such a wish - what is the carrot on offer for the reformation?

The reform would have to be pushed by anyone and everyone with influence on the Taliban. That includes Pakistan, Iran (yes, Iran), the Arabs, etc.

 

[xdrive]

Reformed Taliban?

Once an islamic extremist group, always an islamic extremist group.

I don't know how anyone could want to live under a group that forces you to live in the stone ages. The Taliban even banned music, that's just ridiculous.

Afghanistan will never prosper under the Taliban, it didn't in the past and it wont in the future if the Taliban come back.

 

[ashokdeiva]

So USA has changed nothing, you invade a place from fools and give it back to the fools.
Catch and Release Fishing has made the Americans dumb

 

[Developereo]

If they are a national movement why aren't they ready for a country wide elections? they know they are far behind the modern world and the Afghan society except poor, uneducated and mullas no one will vote for them unless they don't reform, their rule will not differ from an invasion they may still punish people for everything they want to introduce.

No need to play innocent. Before NATO, the various ethnicities were engaged in brutalities against each other. The Pakhtuns won. After NATO came, it reversed the power structure and falsely imposed certain groups to rule over Afghanistan. Any semblance of "democracy" in the presence of 150,000 occupation forces who have shown a clear bias towards certain groups is silly.

Northern Alliance today doesn't exists there are warlords but there is no alliance today; an accountable government will be enough for them to kick their a$$es.

The Afghan security apparatus is all but controlled by ex-NA soldiers. The ethnic minorities who support NA have a disproportionately large role in the Afghan government at the expense of the majority Pakhtuns. All this is not by accident. This is precisely how NATO engineered it, and this will be a major hurdle to peace when NATO leaves.

In the background who are controlling Taliban must change their policy for the group because no one benefits from them except few whose family and wealth is protected outside their country.

Just because NATO has installed certain entities favorable to their geopolitical agenda does not mean the setup will continue when NATO leaves. Afghanistan will need to find a new, proper, democratic balance based on the relative size of various ethnicities.

Request to all Pakistanis kindly go back before the creation of Taliban and see what was the image of Muslims around the world and check it now how it turned today. It's shameful for a Muslim to accept and support the rule of Taliban in another Muslim country whether directly or indirectly it will hurt you as a Muslim in long run, progressed Muslim nations are in favor of all of us playing cheap politics will benefit no one.

Like the Indians, you are deliberately ignoring the "reformed" part and assuming the extremist ideology continues. The premise here is that they drop the extremism and accept reform.

That post was for bilalhaider; Durand line is the problem and will remain a problem unless it's not solved by both sides and on our side you cannot expect any government to solve this issue this has to be solved by people no government of Afghanistan will have the right to take any decision on Durand line; Taliban was an example they tried but failed!

There is nothing to "resolve". The Durand Line is an international border recognized by both Pakistan and Afghanistan. Pakistani Pakhtuns don't want to merge with Afghanistan, and neither do most Afghan Pakhtuns want to merge the other way.

It is only a few troublemakers in Afghanistan, egged on by India, who want to keep this issue alive.

 

[illusion8]

Like the Indians, you are deliberately ignoring the "reformed" part and assuming the extremist ideology continues. The premise here is that they drop the extremism and accept reform.

Reformed in what sense? they give up on their ideology, give up arms, contest elections, become a frontline party in Afg, look at economic and social associations with the world including India.

Or tow Pakistan's line and do whatever Pakistan wants the Taliban to do.?

 

[Developereo]

Reformed in what sense? they give up on their ideology, give up arms, contest elections, become a frontline party in Afg, look at economic and social associations with the world including India.

The part about giving up arms is unlikely, unless everybody else in the country agrees, but at least an ideological shift towards a moderate Islam is the goal. They are not going to become Turkey or Malaysia overnight, but movement in the right direction is what we are talking about.

Or tow Pakistan's line and do whatever Pakistan wants the Taliban to do.?

That's a separate issue unrelated to the extremism itself. Pakistan would have to understand that fostering extremism next door is not in Pakistan's interests either. The problem, to be honest, is the long distance donors in the oil rich Arab world.

 

[Sher Malang]

No need to play innocent. Before NATO, the various ethnicities were engaged in brutalities against each other. The Pakhtuns won. After NATO came, it reversed the power structure and falsely imposed certain groups to rule over Afghanistan. Any semblance of "democracy" in the presence of 150,000 occupation forces who have shown a clear bias towards certain groups is silly.

What do you mean before NATO? Afghanistan was prosperous throughout it's history it never experienced such lunatics; don't play ethnic cards here Hisb Islami was also a Pakhtun faction who had the largest influence between the mujahideen. Democracy is not an excuse but their inability to accept people's will!!

The Afghan security apparatus is all but controlled by ex-NA soldiers. The ethnic minorities who support NA have a disproportionately large role in the Afghan government at the expense of the majority Pakhtuns. All this is not by accident. This is precisely how NATO engineered it, and this will be a major hurdle to peace when NATO leaves.

Afghan security forces are now more than 400,000 including ANA,ANP and NDS where NA soldiers where not more than 10,000.

Just because NATO has installed certain entities favorable to their geopolitical agenda does not mean the setup will continue when NATO leaves. Afghanistan will need to find a new, proper, democratic balance based on the relative size of various ethnicities.

Agreed! and it will be good though if happens.

Like the Indians, you are deliberately ignoring the "reformed" part and assuming the extremist ideology continues. The premise here is that they drop the extremism and accept reform.

No, re-read my posts I believe Taliban can reform but to the day they are not reformed the world would have the same image of Muslims as AQ and Taliban.

There is nothing to "resolve". The Durand Line is an international border recognized by both Pakistan and Afghanistan. Pakistani Pakhtuns don't want to merge with Afghanistan, and neither do most Afghan Pakhtuns want to merge the other way.

It is only a few troublemakers in Afghanistan, egged on by India, who want to keep this issue alive.

Of course it might not be a problem for Pakistan to think about Durand line but it is for the people of Afghanistan; Afghanistan never accepted nor has the right to accept the Durand line as a recognized border between two countries, a solution must be obtained by both side on this issue otherwise as I always said the third parties will benefit from the issue.

 

[lem34]

Reformed Taliban.. What?? So will they stop believing what they always believed? Will they stop punishing men with hunters for not properly growing beard and the woman for talking to any stranger? Or will all the suicide bombers get reformed too?

Ah, gimme a break.. It's there ideology & mindset that's the problem not the people and I don't see them leaving their ideology around anytime soon.. A reformed Taliban sounds like a joke to me..

Well in the seventies Afghanistan was fine. No doubt if Saudi and American money can set up madrassas surely the reverse can be done. The only problem with changing ideology would be that it may take a decade and also winning of hearts and minds is essential something which Americans are not very good at

There is no chance in hell that this evil regime should be given a shred of trust by afghans again.

ahem they are part of Afghans. Some would say maybe a majority.

Taliban type State is not possible because nobody in the region:- Iran, Russia, Central Asian Republics and China want Afghanistan based on extremism and won't let that happen because Iranians fears about genocide of Hazaras and Chinese are fearful of Taliban extremism spillover in Xinjiang. Whole world is against Taliban. Its not 90s after all, things have changed so much, world can't ignore Afghanistan as it happened just after Soviet-Afghan war. I saw many Pakistanis expecting Russians to close supply routes to US but they didn't close that even with serious dispute over Missile Shield crisis. Taliban has become world headache and people never ignore their headache.

Taliban ideology is not very different from Saudis. in fact Saudis not only provided ideology but provided money. So if America and the world can accept Saudis why not Taliban govt. Is it cos Saudis play the role Americans want them to and Taliban wont??

 

[illusion8]

The part about giving up arms is unlikely, unless everybody else in the country agrees, but at least an ideological shift towards a moderate Islam is the goal. They are not going to become Turkey or Malaysia overnight, but movement in the right direction is what we are talking about.



That's a separate issue unrelated to the extremism itself. Pakistan would have to understand that fostering extremism next door is not in Pakistan's interests either. The problem, to be honest, is the long distance donors in the oil rich Arab world.

So what I gather is everyone needs to change...not only the Taliban, Pakistan has to give up on what it wants the Taliban to do, give up its control on the Taliban, the Saudis need to stop funding the Taliban, The Irani's need to stop their support and give up on their motives if any with the Taliban and in the end the Taliban itself have to be ready to accept moderate islam as u point out.

SO the reformation of Pk/Iran/KSA has to prelude the reformation of the Taliban...do u think thats possible?

 

[lem34]

The deliberate ignorance by Indians is even more amazing. .

No its not. I know lots of Indians who are very knowledgeable etc. For some reason we get all the dim ones on pdf

 

[Developereo]

What do you mean before NATO? Afghanistan was prosperous throughout it's history it never experienced such lunatics; don't play ethnic cards here Hisb Islami was also a Pakhtun faction who had the largest influence between the mujahideen.

I am talking about the period after the Soviet withdrawal and the NATO invasion. The warlords on all sides and of all ethnicities wreaked havoc on each other. If the Taliban did more harm, it was only a function of their strength, not their ferociousness.

Democracy is not an excuse but their inability to accept people's will!!

I don't see how a Taliban commander can campaign for election with NATO forces around. I agree that their extremist ideollogy precludes democracy, and that is something that would need to be addressed. To be honest, in the short term, a more realistic scenario might be power sharing of powerful commanders. Proper democracy might have to wait until ethnic tensions defuse.

Afghan security forces are now more than 400,000 including ANA,ANP and NDS where NA soldiers where not more than 10,000.

But the officer corps is predominantly NA. There aren't too many ex-Talibans in the officer corps, for obvious reasons.

No, re-read my posts I believe Taliban can reform but to the day they are not reformed the world would have the same image of Muslims as AQ and Taliban.

Part of that might just be to present the image of fierce resistance against "infidel" invaders. After NATO leaves and they have the burden of actually delivering governance, they might be more tempered. Again, it would all depend if the external funding and backing for extremism is stopped.

Of course it might not be a problem for Pakistan to think about Durand line but it is for the people of Afghanistan; Afghanistan never accepted nor has the right to accept the Durand line as a recognized border between two countries, a solution must be obtained by both side on this issue otherwise as I always said the third parties will benefit from the issue.

Yes, this issue needs to be put to bed once and for all.

So what I gather is everyone needs to change...not only the Taliban, Pakistan has to give up on what it wants the Taliban to do, give up its control on the Taliban, the Saudis need to stop funding the Taliban, The Irani's need to stop their support and give up on their motives if any with the Taliban and in the end the Taliban itself have to be ready to accept moderate islam as u point out.

SO the reformation of Pk/Iran/KSA has to prelude the reformation of the Taliban...do u think thats possible?

You are conflating two separate issues: religious extremism and geopolitical agenda.

It would be naive to think the geopolitical agendas will disappear. I am saying that the use of religious extremism to achieve geopolitical goals should not continue. As for the geopolitical wrangling, that is too ambitious to tackle at this point. We can talk about it, but let's just focus on the extremism for now.

 

[Awesome]

We are not daddy's of Taliban that we have to see them reform - if reforms means they allow women on the streets without burkha and not beat them or not execute people for silly things and all Islami things we are known for.

Just don't harbor groups or do anything outside the borders of Afghanistan. Thats all we have to ask of them and I think that much they have learned.

 

[nalandapride]

Taliban ideology is not very different from Saudis. in fact Saudis not only provided ideology but provided money. So if America and the world can accept Saudis why not Taliban govt. Is it cos Saudis play the role Americans want them to and Taliban wont??

Saudi would also have the same fate if their home had become resting place of all type of militant groups in the world.

 

[Developereo]

if America and the world can accept Saudis why not Taliban govt.

Well, we don't want such an extremist ideology next door to us. (Yes, I know, Iranian mullahs...)

We are not daddy's of Taliban that we have to see them reform

It's as much for Pakistan's self-interest as for the Afghans. Like I wrote above, Pakistan has had enough of this loony ideology next door and seeping inside.