Referendum - Presidential System

[H!TchHiker]

but in Pakistan ppl already thinks its presidential system already like if court bails to someone or anything happen its prime minister mistake whoeve sitting

No I don't think people assume it happens due to PM..our PM is not that much powerful....centre of gravity is not PM in pakistan

 

[AZ1]

No I don't think people assume it happens due to PM..our PM is not that much powerful....centre of gravity is not PM in pakistan

yeah this is what i thought also but after talking with even educated persons they say look erdugan did this and that and Ik didnt do this. they dont buy what system is.

 

[Xestan]

Presidential form of Government also requires a Parliament. The legislation happens in the similar way. In US, Congress keeps a check on the President.

What we need is a better selection in the Parliament and an empowered Parliament.

 

[xyx007]

Parliament system is not good for poor country like us and it is not good fit for our geographic nature. In the entire constitutional and political history of Pakistan, presidential system was not experienced in its true form but it was more prone to vague and misuse of power.

one cannot avoid the conclusion that the parliamentary system, with all its drawbacks and disadvantages, may still be more suitable to Pakistan’s condition and climate. During recent example of senate election , we have seen excesses of the parliamentary system, such as floor crossing, and destabilization of government. So ball in IK court , lets see how he would like to play ?

 

[Hiraa]

Any chance of this becoming reality now that JKT and his “friends” have formed a block.

 

[batmannow]

With a simple majority in joint session now, IK can call for a referendum for Presidential System (provided tomorrow's vote of confidence is in his favour). Article 48(6) was amended in 18th Amendment by PPP to stop a PM just using only Parliament to call referendum and bypassing Senate. No clause of 2/3 majority for a call.

Hoping IK's legal team will use the next 6 months to call for one.

48

President to act on advice, etc. (1) In the exercise of his functions, the President shall act 63[on and] 63 in accordance with the advice of the Cabinet 64[or the Prime Minister] 64: (2) Notwithstanding anything contained in clause (1), the President shall act in his discretion in respect of any matter in respect of which he is empowered by the Constitution to do so 68[and the validity of anything done by the President in his discretion shall not be called in question on any ground whatsoever] 68. 69[] 69 (4) The question whether any, and if so what, advice was tendered to the President by the Cabinet, the Prime Minister, a Minister or Minister of State shall not be inquired into in, or by, any court, tribunal or other authority. 70[ (5) Where the President dissolves the National Assembly, notwithstanding anything contained in clause (1), he shall- (a) appoint a date, not later than ninety days from the date of the dissolution, for the holding of a general election to the Assembly; and (b) appoint a care-taker Cabinet 71[in accordance with the provisions of Article 224 or, as the case may be, Article 224-A] 71. ] 70 73[ (6) If at any time the Prime Minister considers it necessary to hold a referendum on any matter of national importance, he may refer the matter to a joint sitting of the Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament) and if it is approved in a joint sitting, the Prime Minister may cause such matter to be referred to a referendum in the form of a question that is capable of being answered by either "Yes" or "No". ] 73 (7) An act of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament) may lay down the procedure for the holding of a referendum and the compiling and consolidation of the result of a referendum.

That can be a wish list. But practicly when 70% of ptis NA members are not from its original political party and were gathered by a establishment then imran doesn't have much control on his parlimebtry team?
there r more scandles comming in his ways soon as some big head who compromised Pakistan long ago wants to follow his masters sitting in pentagon and Tel Aviv?
Best way to deal with all that, manipulations for IK is to take highest grounds frist on Kashmir then, on support to Palestinians against Israel that will gather more public support to him and that will counter as huge public support to him against hidden Slaves of pentagon in Pakistan!
With huge public support, his real opposite camp which isn't the Sharifs will bound to run away from their abnoxcious following of pentagon mafia!
Then imran can select his real cabinet not because they been forwarded by some one else but because if thier political loyalties to IK instead of others?
Then bring a change on key, organizations of Pakistan and Thier heads!
Then set fast pace, to CEPEC changing it's head to himself?
With close support of China. Russia, turkey Pakistan may not become heavens on earth as it wasn't untill now bowing down to usa?
But still it can survive with its own priorities and it's own agenda and slowly lossing Americans and west will come to Pakistans terms?
FATAF, IMF, WB all Been used to crack Pakistan systemicly and this was a old plan, from Tel Aviv, and pentagon!
That was described as GREAT GAME long ago, in which Pakistan needed to give up it's nucks, then ACCEPT Indian confederation then acceptance of Israel!
Giving up bases to NATO. UAE, Israel against china and Iran?
And I don't wana go further then that what all that will result after that?
Imran needs to standup and has to give up his old thinking that just managing media will bring him any good?
No, he has to take popular stand on Kashmir and close cooperation with China on india!
Then to take full control of CEPEC speeding it up!
No matter who thinks what!
Open Pakistan for more Chinese, Turkish companies and Thier investments , for factories which can bring jobs to PAKISTANIs!
Take a stand on israel, and support palestainans same as been declared in UN resolutions !
It will bring him fame. Public support and more smaller Arabain afraid countries like UAE, KSA! will come up with more investments as they will be ditched soon by ISRAEL and USA!
tell IMF to bent itself or else be kicked out of Pakistan same as Argentina did to. It once!
Use chinese , Turkish support counter FATAF and it's proxies!
Open all imports from China and turkey! With minimal taxes!
And then reform police. Army act and make all uniformers accountable for their crouption at any level and forms!
It can be a great reset of Pakistan and back to its tracks it , won't be Ezy for sure but it's not impossible! And is the only way out then after these steps when IKs popularity will be in huge scale change to presidentail system , I'm sure he will get huge support from with in establishment which is desperate from their commands wrong and self serving political and economical Decesions?

 

[Jungibaaz]

I've yet to come across any comprehensive list of arguments explaining why a presidential system in Pakistan is a necessity, or even a good fit for us. We've had a semi and de facto presidential system for some parts of our history, and it did nothing to strengthen institutions or process, which is what has prevented either system from achieving an acceptable level of competency. Parliamentary systems have the capacity to be just as effective, and there are also some reasons to pick the parliamentary system over the presidential. The grass is always greener on the other side I suppose. And even if we get a presidential system system, it would not magically allow minority governments or coalition governments to suddenly overcome legislative arithmetic. Nor would a proper presidential system come without a plethora of its own checks and balances on executive power. And as far the power of provinces and the eighteenth amendment go, that is a matter that doesn't need to have to do with either system, federalism and centralisation can be had under either parliamentary or presidential system, or some hybrid system in between.

 

[Syed1.]

Even parliamentary system would work if the people sitting in the house have their own standing and aren't just darbari and khushamdi of their party leaders. Tune into any parliament session and PPP and PML-N vermin are just creating a raucous, doing naraybaazi and not letting anyone from the treasury bench speak. It will be a cold day in hell before any PPP or PML-N politician can question their leadership over ill-gotten wealth.


Heck Shahid Khaqan Abbasi who was Noony Tunes puppet PM said in a talk show, "we left a great economy there were only two issues trade deficit and current account deficit". This is the level of someone who is in the top tier in PML-N

 

[batmannow]

Even parliamentary system would work if the people sitting in the house have their own standing and aren't just darbari and khushamdi of their party leaders. Tune into any parliament session and PPP and PML-N vermin are just creating a raucous, doing naraybaazi and not letting anyone from the treasury bench speak. It will be a cold day in hell before any PPP or PML-N politician can question their leadership over ill-gotten wealth.


Heck Shahid Khaqan Abbasi who was Noony Tunes puppet PM said in a talk show, "we left a great economy there were only two issues trade deficit and current account deficit". This is the level of someone who is in the top tier in PML-N

Untill the secret role of establishment not crubed you I'll just get pupets in power who will be changed as needed without it u will only get what u have?

 

[PakLeader]

Pakistan has never had a true Presidential system where the president is directly elected by the people. Ayub Khans system the President was elected indirectly by "basic democrats". Each military ruler whether Zia or Musharraf were indirectly elected by parliament.

Does Pakistan need a presidential system, absolutely yes. We need a strong presidential system with checks and balances. Where experts can be chosen as members of the cabinet rather than incompetent and corrupt MNAs who have no qualifications and use their political clout to blackmail themselves selves into ministries where they can loot and plunder.

The power of provinces need to be curtailed in favor of strong directly elected local governments. A strong federal government is needed to have uniform policies of development across the country.

Parliamentary democracy has failed and has been a curse for Pakistan. A system that lacks checks and balances. A system where any government with a majority can do as it pleases. Essentially an elected dictatorship. For a Parliamentary system to work you need an educated population that understands national interests, political parties that are not based on family inheritance and actually have real internal accountability. An opposition that holds governments accountable and actually proposes alternative legislation. Pakistan has never had any of these ingredients. Our politicians love Parliamentary democracy because it's a system that has allowed them to loot the nation and become billionaires. They have brainwashed the people by associating a presidential system to dictatorship because they know under a presidential system they will not be able to continue with their corruption. It's a well known fact that Quaid-e-Azam wanted a presidential system for Pakistan, alas he left us too soon leaving the nation to the feudals who preferred a system where they can jointly plunder the country.

Anyway, we need a Presidential system. Unfortunately no political party will support it as it's not in any of their interest. Even PTI is full of politicians of convenience, there today gone tomorrow to join the highest bidder. People need to be educated about the benefits of a true Presidential system...however our population is too ignorant and lack basic understanding of national or Long term interest or what what is happening in the world. As I see it, when such a system comes it will be by the boot not parliament amending the constitution which is itself not worth the paper it's written on.

 

[Adecypher]

Therefore, the successful Muslim ruler has to be extremely just/honest/competent/brave etc., and ruthlessly tough on the traitors......

That is “dandey waali sarkaar” ...

 

[Syed1.]

Because ik has fucked up the country we need a new system. Wow
Mega retard, how bout get the dead dogs out of the well

Mods please look at the language this thing is using

@waz @HRK

 

[HRK]

Mods please look at the language this thing is using

@waz @HRK

dear I am not a mod

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

A Presidential Form of Govt like Turkey seems ideal, but unfortunately it will not work in Pakistan as we are not a homogeneous nation ethnically. With Punjab more than 50% it will mount to grievances by the smaller units as they will hail it as the emergence of the One-Unit system.
In 1973 the new parliamentary set-up was ideal on paperwork in the earlier days till late gen Zia FCUKED it up with a Non-Party system in 1985. The political parties were marginalised and Biradaris, Tribes and Sects took over the helm of affairs. We have still not come out of this, as the so-called Electables still hold sway in the power corridors.
Constant political medalling and experimentations by the Establishment has taken a toll out on our democracy and whatever remains is a complete shambles.
Democracy is the glue that holds our hetrogeneas nation together, otherwise there will be chaos and lawlessness in every nook of the motherland.
We have experimented on the following Set-ups that have failed. Crown Governor General system,Martial Law, Ayub khans BD presendial system, Bhuttos Parliamentary system, Zias nonparty system, Musharafs all in one system and currently Bajwas Hybrid model.
If we are to be a NORMAL country please free the media, judiciary, buerocracy and let every institution remain in their domain. Please do not support the corrupt Electables as they offer you their services. And finally let the shambolic democracy find its own cure as it has successfully done in 160 countries.