Rectal rehydration and broken limbs: the grisliest findings in the CIA torture report

[AgentOrange]

Let’s not kid ourselves: Most Americans are fine with torture, even when you call it “torture” - The Washington Post

Americans don't care about the rights of non-uniformed combatants or terrorists. Period. Even Democrats don't care, and that's saying something, given their anti-American agenda. But please continue criticizing America, since I know that your concern-trolling gives you great pleasure.

Lol, Democrat's "anti-American" agenda. And you think I'm trolling because I post information you don't want to hear? Cry more.

What ? More enraged than they are when they hack our heads off and post the videos' ? I'll wave my flag when we scoop those dirt bags up, drop them into a hole in Cuba and stuff Happy Meals up their @sses.

Actually, that was pretty funny.

 

[gambit]

It certainly seems like it's a big deal to most Americans, judging from speeches etc made by your politicians on almost a daily basis. Also, note where I said "supposed."

Ultimately whether or not Americans actually stick to their much vaunted principles (they don't) doesn't affect me. But, given these revelations or torture, will more American blood be spilled overseas as America's enemies become more enraged? More than likely. You should wave your flag at that.

Do you really think Americans were more safe before ?

The reason why the US have 'Status Of Forces Agreement' (SOFA) is because we knew no US military personnel would be safe and treated fairly if ever in the custody of host countries. SOFA was not about shielding US military personnel from prosecution if any committed a crime, although that is an understandable perception by many. Thirty yrs ago, I was briefed that if I ever was in custody of a foreign government, especially any in Asia or in the ME, I should be expected to be at least abused, if not outright tortured, simply for being an American, and worse an American military member.

Will more American blood be spilled over these revelations ? Not likely. If you genuinely believe that our enemies were respectful of the UN conventions before, you are as naive as my 18 months old niece about Santa Clause.

This is going to be a flash in the pan in the eyes of foreign governments -- behind closed doors. All of them, including the tyrannical ones, know that the true measure of what make a humane government is not what it felt it must do in war to protect itself, but in how it treats its citizens in peace. What the few CIA agents did will create nothing but yawns in the eyes of professional torturers in the service of those other governments.

'The CIA did what ? We did that twenty yrs ago. What a bunch of amateurs. '

 

[AgentOrange]

know that the true measure of what make a humane government is not what it felt it must do in war to protect itself, but in how it treats its citizens in peace

Speaking of naive, you really want to go there? In light of all the American police brutality/militarization issues?

Also, if there isn't going to be any backlash, explain why American embassies across the world are tightening their security measures in response to the reports release?

 

[gambit]

Speaking of naive, you really want to go there? In light of all the American police brutality/militarization issues?

Also, if there isn't going to be any backlash, explain why American embassies across the world are tightening their security measures in response to the reports release?

Backlash for what and did I say that there would be no backlash to start ? But speculate for a moment that there are no backlash. Why not ? Because the people that you hope would produce any kind of 'backlash' know that their own governments are capable of doing ten times worse. Yeah, we might see a few crowds in front of embassies here and there. But if you think the entire world is going to rise up against US, diplomatically or else, it is YOU who are naive.

What was Daniel Pearl's beheading/execution in response to ? This report ? How about the recent beheadings of foreigners ?

And spare US your meaningless diatribe against US over the American police. Across this country, thousands of people who got stopped by the police and nothing came out of it.

 

[Arya Desa]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. America is facing an enemy of such savagery, supported by such a large population, that they must use any means to protect herself and the rest of the free world.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Yeah, we should just hack the jihadis' heads off and send them back to their Mommies. But I AM against force feeding. It's cruel and unusual punishment.......for the people that have to do it. Let the jihadi jerk offs starve.

The same nation has the courage to own up its mistakes and publish the report for the entire world to read, and to ensure that those mistakes do not happen again. Nobody is perfect, but anybody can improve, as will be the case here.

not all Americans are bad but surely these people must be punished!

 

[jhungary]

People here are VERY ILL INFORMED about interrogation technique

Suggest member to read this article I wrote several months back

True art of Interrogation

Back on topic. Did we used torture? Yes, we do, I am not going to deflect and tell you "So What, China used it too" or something like that, but in the game of Intel, it's very hard to Not torture people and get the information you need. Not because torture itself usually generate useful intel. Most of the time it was quite the opposite, most people will simply tell you shit just that you stop torturing them.

Now, why torture is useful in interrogation? It's for a simple reason, "So, they know you are going to do it" I can point a knife at your throat and make it look like I am going to cut you, but fact is, the person knows that I lost the moment I cut him. Cos he will be dead and you can't extract info from dead man.

So what do you do? You get his family and tell him you are sending his family to Abu Ghraib

Fact is, whether or not you are sending his family in is another matter. Point is he believe you are going to so it, and he knows what happened to Abu Ghraib. So he knows his family is going to hell on earth.

In the intel business, Myth is more powerful than facts, or threats. cos you don't know what might happen. That's the usefulness of Abu Gharib. To give you a point. Its much like a bomb threats, it works best if you dont know when, where and how the bomb is going to detonate, what is the threat when the bomb has already gone off?

This is how Intelligence IN THIS WORLD operate, or you really believe anyone would be dumb enough to take picture of a torture session and circulate it on the internet or main stream media?

i myself got a few good intel this way back when i was in afghanistan, without even touching the subject...

 

[VCheng]

Does 9/11 deaths had to be avenged in Iraq ? or to put it in another way, does two wrongs make something right.

Those who caused the 9/11 deaths are being brought to justice, only a few like Al-Zwahiri remaining. Most of them have been killed or apprehended.

 

[jhungary]

by the way, i am pretty sure if i want to torture someone in my custody, i would have use a foreign contractor

a.) they are more ruthless
b.) they cant be trace back to me

 

[powastick]

US can judge anyone, but nobody can judge the US because might is right. If any lesser country would have done this, invoke sanction.

 

[jhungary]

US can judge anyone, but nobody can judge the US because might is right. If any lesser country would have done this, invoke sanction.

Its not about judging, this is about understanding

I cant seems to remember there are any country NOT using torture to get result. Or you supposed we ask the terrorist nicely and make them a cup of tea when we ask for any useful information....?

Everyone does it. US has never denial that torture have never happened, so whats yiur point?

last i heard, Malaysian were using torture on their dissident too, did Malay have sanction against because of it?

 

[scholseys]

America, the ISIS of the west?

 

[ozzy22]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. America is facing an enemy of such savagery, supported by such a large population, that they must use any means to protect herself and the rest of the free world.

If that’s the case then the US should stop preaching about human rights to anyone else.

 

[Solomon2]

The report doesn't feel right to me. It doesn't give the feel of what the interrogations were like. The suspicion is that declassified bits were cherry-picked to provide the support for the "torture-is-ineffective" theme that its Senate sponsors desired. This feeling is strengthened by responses of outgoing Senate leader Feinstein on the issue, who batted away criticism from informed questioners and participants with "read our report" - that is, she doesn't want counter-narratives to have a say. When you're talking about a report distilled to 500 pages from 6,000 that's a big concern.

By the way, Pakistani authorities score pretty well in this report for information-sharing and disrupting terror plots. The report denies in several instances that Pakistani successes were due to CIA providing tips as the CIA previously claimed and instead attributes their successes "unilaterally" to Pakistani efforts.

Efforts of "Pakistani authorities" to gain information from their subjects are referred to as "interviews" - not interrogations. It all sounds very polite.

 

[powastick]

Its not about judging, this is about understanding

I cant seems to remember there are any country NOT using torture to get result. Or you supposed we ask the terrorist nicely and make them a cup of tea when we ask for any useful information....?

Everyone does it. US has never denial that torture have never happened, so whats yiur point?

last i heard, Malaysian were using torture on their dissident too, did Malay have sanction against because of it?

I didn't say I wasn't against torture, in fact I agree with you. My problem is US hypocritical attitude such as complaining human right abuse in North Korea for example.

Edit: I couldn't remember earlier.

last i heard, Malaysian were using torture on their dissident too, did Malay have sanction against because of it?

Yup, there is 1 or 2 cases where Indian Malaysian death in police custody. Suspected criminal not political dissident. Rumor has it they were smuggling arms. Not sure if I heard of torturing political dissident, perhaps you could enlighten me?